Say a party member has fallen unconscious, and appropriate means of healing aren't available (maybe the unconscious one is the only healer, or all the healer's spells have been cast for the day. I don't really know, this is hypothetical). If the party decides to retreat with a spell like teleport, plane shift, transport via plants, etc. which has a range of "you and touched objects, or other touched willing creatures" can the unconscious person count as willing.
Or do they count as objects? Or does anyone who isn't specifically unwilling count as willing?
...As for why our hypothetical party owns no scrolls, potions, or wands despite being high enough level to teleport/plane shift/whatever, perhaps that detail is best ignored.
IIRC unconscious creatures automatically count as willing.
Relevant rules from the Magic section of the PRD ...
AIMING A SPELL
"Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you're flat-footed or it isn't your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing."
RANGE
Touch: You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yep unconscious creatures are always willing.. :D
|
Relevant rules from the Magic section of the PRD ...
AIMING A SPELL
"Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you're flat-footed or it isn't your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing."RANGE
Touch: You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action.
+1
Is anyone else reading this thread and imagining the party rogue pleading his case before the local magistrate: "But guv'na, she was out like a light, so by the rules as written, she was clearly WILLING!"
I'm going to use pathfinder rules to explain to the cops how she was willing next time. wat.
...
...
...
...
...
...
"next time..."
I literally didn't read your post ashenfall before I typed that. I've always thought it was funny the rules think unconscious means willing.
Unconscious is not always willing. This was clarified in another thread. I will try to find it.
Yep unconscious creatures are always willing.. :D
The sandport PD has had to tell you that's not the case HOW many times now? :)
The nightmare spell would not allow a save if being unconscious automatically made you willing. I am still looking for the thread.
Think its different since nightmare doesn't call out willing like teleport.
Teleport is no save if willing a save if your not nightmare if you were willing you would have to choose to fail the save not it just happening.
What I am saying is that you are only automatically considered willing for spells that are "harmless" when you are unconscious.
The nightmare spell would not allow a save if being unconscious automatically made you willing. I am still looking for the thread.
Well, there's two willings here.
One willing is giving up your saving throws- this is not what being unconscious does.
The other willing is for a spells "willing target only" - which IS given up when you fall asleep. The bad guy can knock you unconcious and teleport out with you.
That I can agree with.
Exactly your willing if the spell funtions different on willing people than on unwilling
Is anyone else reading this thread and imagining the party rogue pleading his case before the local magistrate: "But guv'na, she was out like a light, so by the rules as written, she was clearly WILLING!"
I'm going to use pathfinder rules to explain to the cops how she was willing next time. wat.
...Some of you are baaaaaaad people. -_-
Heh, well anyways, thank you all for finding the answers to my random musing.
No, willing for a SPELL, not actually to give consent. The spell will always effect you because you can't object. This also applies to potentally negative things.
It's not a legal issue or a "do I want this or not" issue, it's an issue of if you can will away a spell effect while unconscious. Obviously not, since you're not aware to attempt to prevent it.
Sorry man but its a big difference on those just like with fort saves vs poison the only saves it think you auto fail for being unconcscious is reflex and it may just be a penalty.
Wraithstrike : sleeping is not unconscious.
The PRD states :
Unconscious: Unconscious creatures are knocked out and helpless. Unconsciousness can result from having negative hit points (but not more than the creature's Constitution score), or from nonlethal damage in excess of current hit points.
Wraithstrike : sleeping is not unconscious.
The PRD states :
Unconscious: Unconscious creatures are knocked out and helpless. Unconsciousness can result from having negative hit points (but not more than the creature's Constitution score), or from nonlethal damage in excess of current hit points.
... I'm going to file that under the sleeping doesn't have to be done lying down rule, or the you fall down when you die rule. Just because it doesn't spell it out doesn't mean its NOT true.
Yep unconscious creatures are always willing.. :D
Giggity goo
Wraithstrike : sleeping is not unconscious.
o.O?
wut
I am looking into it, but there may be a problem in the rules here that need clarification. I guess my problem is that treating an unconscious character as willing opens up a lot of loopholes that were not intended. Sleeping should equal unconscious, but I am not 100% sure that unconscious should always equal willing.
Looking into the matter.
For what it's worth, here's my take:
In order to be willing, you need to be conscious, since being willing is a choice you make. If you're not able to choose, you can't choose at all, and therefore by definition you are unwilling.
If I were running a game, though, I'd let the player choose if he were willing or unwilling even if he were unconscious because that at least lets the player of a character who is at least temporarily out of the game keep playing by having input into the events.
Author of the book or not, the man is WRONG!!!
Proof: I'm asleep and dreaming. I dream that the Swedish Bikini Team's bus breaks down, and they want ME to rub them all down with lotion. I'm both unconscious AND willing at the same time.
The the dream somehow morphs to where said bikini team is in a pit, and I'm lowering the lotion to them in a bucket. In that case, would JJ still allow a guy like me to keep having input into the events? I should think certainly not.
JJ, I'm extremely disappointed in you, you sick, demented man.
IT GETS THE HOSE AGAIN!!!
What I am saying is that you are only automatically considered willing for spells that are "harmless" when you are unconscious.Just to keep things simple I would suggest that you consider someone 'willing' if they would be willing while conscious , sane, sober, and otherwise unimpaired.
Fixed.
Heh, I was just being nitpicky again. :)
For the sake of simplicity, I like JJ's suggestion; let the player decide whether they are or aren't willing.