Ok. I have a question. Some summon monsters are intelligent. Example: summon monster 6 has a succubus. Now my dm has it set up so that if i summon (using summon monster, not gate) a intellectual monster, it has the chance to find me and kill me after the spell is done. Again example:! The succubus was in the middle of a dealing and i pulles her away from her current work. Another example is archons, lawful good. If i call a archon and the archon feels that a chaotic member of the party is against what it stands for, it will be offended and find a way to the material plan and kill the party...
I understand DM rules all and if i try and argue the last word of the DM stands but our group fallows the rules to a "T". So can somebody tell me a fault in this logic? I feel i will have to offer compensation like in "planer ally".. and because i am using it to fight... it will be in the 1k per Hit Dice.... and i will say we are a low magic/gold campaign.
That's like ordering a delicious bucket of chicken only to get salmonella the next day.
Lol oh thank you. I will have to use that analogy.
The intent behind summons is that they are more like spell effects than real creatures. They can't really come back to kill you.
Called monsters on the other hand...can do exactly that.
Understand but outsiders can find ways to plan shift, though those who command them or by other means.
They aren't "physically" in danger but still retain whats going on and might be doing something against thier demeanor. Than seek revenge
Ok. I have a question. Some summon monsters are intelligent. Example: summon monster 6 has a succubus. Now my dm has it set up so that if i summon (useing summon monster, not gate) a intellectual monster, it has the chance to find me and kill me after the spell is done. Again example:! The succubus was in the middle of a dealing and i pulles her away from her current work. Another example is archons, lawful good. If i call a archon and the archon feels that a chaotic member of the party is against what it stands for, it will be afended and find a way to the material plan and kill the party...
I understand DM rules all and if i try and argue the last word of the DM stands but our group fallows the rules to a "T". So can somebody tell me a fault i this logic? I feel i will have to offer compensation like in "planer ally"..
Hmmm, it adds an interesting element to the game, I'll give it that. If it's getting excessive I'd recommend the DM tone it down a bit though. Sounds like it would be something better as a once in awhile thing. The Sucubus holds a grudge and shows up down the road as a villainess, likewise the Archon might remember your group in a future dealing, not so much the 'hunt your party down and fight them' though. That could get tedious after a bit.
It's not a matter of ability, or access to planar travel. I really don't believe summons were ever intended to work the way your GM describes.
Otherwise, why bother pointing out that called creatures can come back and get you should you displease them? Summoning says nothing of the sort.
I agree. Its a different take and the spell originally wasn't intended to do that.
In the past we had an evil druid who used his summon nature's ally to go down a hall to trip trps. When the druid did this he lost the capability to call that animal because the animal no longer wished to be summoned.
I will see what comes of it. This is the first time we had a summoner in the group so it will be interesting.
Cool, your DM is really nice!
You still use your summons to fight and then they come back for easy xp! You should thank him!
I seem to recall that 3.5 went into this a little. It was something along the lines of the summoned creature being a clone or archetpyal idea of a creature, and not an actual, specific creature. More like the spirit of ALL dire weasels or what have you, and not a random one from the forest. Obviously, since it's more like a memory of a creature than an actual creature, it doesn't actually exist before or after the spell to do anything.
I seem to recall that 3.5 went into this a little. It was something along the lines of the summoned creature being a clone or archetpyal idea of a creature, and not an actual, specific creature. More like the spirit of ALL dire weasels or what have you, and not a random one from the forest. Obviously, since it's more like a memory of a creature than an actual creature, it doesn't actually exist before or after the spell to do anything.
I thought the same thing. Sfter reading both core book and UM. I couldn't find anything that insinuated that.
could you find the opposite? I bet not, it's GM territory, and there is nothing you can do against it.
It was an intelligent try to get you to think before summoning stuff for battle as it is a very good tactic.
But there are loopholes and everything he'll have to fix later, like "do you summon a random but specific creature?", "can you summon the same creature twice?" etc.
Like summon an angel to help you (you are LG and fight demons), ask him questions and everything for free, and he can't really die because that is not how summoning works. So he gets to help you KILL real demons without the chance of him him being killed, he should be happy.
I seem to recall that 3.5 went into this a little. It was something along the lines of the summoned creature being a clone or archetpyal idea of a creature, and not an actual, specific creature. More like the spirit of ALL dire weasels or what have you, and not a random one from the forest. Obviously, since it's more like a memory of a creature than an actual creature, it doesn't actually exist before or after the spell to do anything.I thought the same thing. Sfter reading both core book and UM. I couldn't find anything that insinuated that.
The core rule book specifically says that they aren't really. In the magic chapter, under Conjuration (summoning).
Im with Keyafay on this one, Nothing says they are not real creatures.
A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from,...
So you summon him away from his infernal deal but he gets to go back in less than a min. Devils, demons and angels should be use to that by now.
|
The closest that I could find was this:
Conjuration
Each conjuration spell belongs to one of five subschools. Conjurations transport creatures from another plane of existence to your plane (calling); create objects or effects on the spot (creation); heal (healing); bring manifestations of objects, creatures, or forms of energy to you (summoning); or transport creatures or objects over great distances (teleportation). Creatures you conjure usually—but not always—obey your commands.
It states that you just bring a manifestation of the object, creature or energy, not that actual. It is not calling (transporting a creature from one plane to another), and thus the creature is not actually here.
Now, there is the important fact that it also states: "Creatures you conjure usually—but not always—obey your commands." I could see the DM using this to have a summoned thing refuse to do anything against it's nature.
I saw that part, but if you scroll down or read on, it elaborates a little more on each of those things in Parentheses. Being that is just a quick reference I think the paragraph below it supersedes it. I would tend to agree with everyone else with common sense and say keyafay is getting the shaft but by RAW I can see why the GM has grounds to do that.
|
|
I saw that part, but if you scroll down or read on, it elaborates a little more on each of those things in Parentheses. Being that is just a quick reference I think the paragraph below it supersedes it. I would tend to agree with everyone else with common sense and say keyafay is getting the shaft but by RAW I can see why the GM has grounds to do that.
I agree, it was just the closest that I could find.
