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How on earth does it have 20 attacks? At 13th level the Eidolon is only allowed to have 5 natural attacks.If it were to be able to make 20 attacks with gauntlets(considered a weapon I guess) it would need 20 sets of arm evolutions, that is 38 points by itself.
Seeing as he has Pounce it must be a Quadruped Eidolon and in the example above he would only have 1 attack being a bite.
There is no arms evolution for 9 points. Arms cost 2 points per pair.
He has spent 24 points in your above example while he only has 20 points.
There is a lot wrong with the Eidolon.
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Level 13 Summoner Eidolon
Max. Attacks - is 5 at his level.
This indicates the maximum number of natural attacks that the eidolon is allowed to possess at the given level. If the eidolon is at its maximum, it cannot take evolutions that grant additional natural attacks. This does not include attacks made with weapons
Link:
Eidolon by level
- An amulet of mighty fists vorpal without any other enhancement bonus costs 125,000 gold (+5 vorpal equivalent).
- Gauntlets are no piercing or slashing weapons, so do not work with vorpal.
- Monk's robes are 13,000 gold, they would just add +1 to AC and have the eidolon make unarmed strikes for 2D8 damage being Huge, but nothing else from a monk.
- 10HD eidolon making unarmed strikes has +10/+5 with unarmed strikes, lacking any Twoweapon or multiweapon feats of any kind that is not very impressive, you could make secondary natural weapon attacks though they would have a -5 penalty to hit and only add half their strenght bonus and the eidolon is limited to 5 natural attacks in any event.
- limb evolution costs 2 points, so taking it 9 times would cost 18 pts and wouldnt add to attacks by itself unless taking a large penalty on attacks and damage for unarmed strikes or buying claws for every single one to make secondary attack aside from the unarmed strikes, which are again limited by summoners level.
- Making an Eidolon Huge costs 6 pts not 4.
All in all this eidolon build is worthless, dont let the player play a summoner if he cant handle it.
As I understand it, the eidolon attacks with the gauntlets, which it is proficient in via Improved Unarmed Strike.
Amulet of Mighty Fists +5, which is the only one you can put Vorpal onto, costs 125,000 gold. Also, it would require a slashing attack, while the gauntlet only does bludgeoning damage. I'm not sure if Amulet of Mighty Fists would effect a gauntlet anyway.
He does not have any natural attacks with which to improve via Improved Natural Attack. (Improved Unarmed Strike does not grant natural attacks.) In addition, a 13th level eidolon is limited to 5 natural attacks per round.
Large->Huge costs 10 points, not 8. Being Large/Huge doubles the cost of adding Strength bonuses.
Limbs costs 2 points per evolution, not 1. Growing an additional 18 arms to attack would cost 18 points. Because it has Pounce, it is limited to quadruped form. Thus, it starts with no arms.
Here's what something of the general concept should look like:
Male Quadruped
LG Huge Outsider
Init +2; Senses Darkvision (60 feet); Perception +13
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DEFENSE
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AC 27, touch 10, flat-footed 25. . (+2 Dex, -2 size, +17 natural)
hp 120 (+60)
Fort +13, Ref +9, Will +3
Defensive Abilities Evasion
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OFFENSE
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Spd 40 ft.
Melee Bite (Bite) +18 (2d6+19/20/x2) and
. . Claw x4 (Claws) +18 x4 (3d6+19/20/x2) plus Rend (1/round) +18 (4d6+28/20/x2)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
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STATISTICS
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Str 36, Dex 15, Con 22, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
Base Atk +10; CMB +25; CMD 37 (41 vs. Trip)
Feats Combat Reflexes (3 AoO/round), Improved Natural Attack: Claw x2 (Claws), Improved Natural Attack: Rend (Rend), Multiattack (Multiattack / Extra Attack), Power Attack -3/+6, Rending Fury
Skills Fly -2, Intimidate +10, Perception +13, Sense Motive +13, Stealth +7
Languages Common
SQ Devotion +4 (Ex), Multiattack / Extra Attack, Pounce (Ex)
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Combat Reflexes (3 AoO/round) You may make up to 3 attacks of opportunity per round, and may make them while flat-footed.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Devotion +4 (Ex) +4 Morale bonus on Will Saves vs. Enchantments.
Evasion (Ex) No damage on successful reflex save.
Multiattack / Extra Attack Multiattack or second attack with primary weapon at a -5 penalty.
Pounce (Ex) You can make a full attack after a charge.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Rending Fury Need half the normal number of attacks to deal rend damage
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Still pretty potent, but not cutting heads off left and right. (Also, +3 Will save.) Hitting with all his attacks will do something like 185 damage per round, which is still pretty good. The Improved Damage and Improved Natural Attacks might not stack, and I don't know if you can actually take Improved Natural Attack for Rend. Still, even if he is only hitting with 2d6+19 on each of the 5 natural attacks and 2d6+28 on the rend attack, that is still pretty rough.
He's clearly abusing the system, using the gauntlets to make each arm a weapon, as normally, each fist does not give additional attack unless it possesses a natural weapon, though unarmed strikes are NOT natural weapons, so multiattack does nothing, giving the standard penalty for twf with two light weapons.
Improved natural attack works neither. It's for Natural Weapons. Unarmed Strikes are not that.
Amulet of Mighty Fists has a max bonus of +5. It cannot fit in Vorpal +5, if it has a +1 on it already, as that'd make it a +6, which is over the limit.
By raw, he's kinda fine. By rai, he's a minmaxing munchkin.
Limbs cost 2pts, meaning he should have spent 9 x 2pts (18) on his fists alone. So no, his evolutions are wrong, he either saw wrong, or is trying to trick you by writing arms as costing just 9pts.
Another thing. He took Pounce, that's a quadraped. Those have no starting limbs. Meaning he slapped on 9 limbs at half evolution price, then a set of them for free. He now has 12 limbs (two are legs).
Also, with Large picked, Str and Con upgrades double in cost. He didn't write that up. His two Str upgrades cost 4 each, not 2.
Ninjae'd by that *********** **** ******* ****** ****** Barcas ._.
@LazarX
Yeah, I meant the ideawise, slapping on a gauntlet to get free attacks from limbs. As cheap as it is with 18 arms, for 2 or 4, it's a decent idea.
Ninjae'd by that *********** **** ******* ****** ****** Barcas ._.
@LazarX
Yeah, I meant the ideawise, slapping on a gauntlet to get free attacks from limbs. As cheap as it is with 18 arms, for 2 or 4, it's a decent idea.
Very doubtful wether it makes any difference since gauntlets are still unarmed strikes, it doesnt change anything, improved unarmed strike already gives the option to deal lethal damage I think.. though not sure on that and dont really want to look that up.
Nice catch...
Gauntlets count as unarmed strikes, only way to get more unarmed strikes is monk's flurry of blow.
That kind of foils the whole thing lol.
He's like Pinky and Brain of munchkining.
Very doubtful wether it makes any difference since gauntlets are still unarmed strikes, it doesnt change anything, improved unarmed strike already gives the option to deal lethal damage I think.. though not sure on that and dont really want to look that up.Ninjae'd by that *********** **** ******* ****** ****** Barcas ._.
@LazarX
Yeah, I meant the ideawise, slapping on a gauntlet to get free attacks from limbs. As cheap as it is with 18 arms, for 2 or 4, it's a decent idea.
He could just make those gauntlets into cestuses. But you are correct in that they are still unarmed strikes therefore he only gets five at any point.
He could easily make that a ton of kukris and get the same effect. Better really as the critasticness would go off quite often. He won't get the effects of his amulet of might fists or his monks robe but then he can put that money into making the kukri's magical.
I guess it all boils to a somewhat, comically pathetic failure at munchkin.
Unless he intentionally changed the pts cost on evolutions to pass off things he couldn't, he seems to have failed at every step?
He could easily make that a ton of kukris and get the same effect. Better really as the critasticness would go off quite often.
Vorpal only procs off a natural 20, not just a crit. A vorpal kukri wouldn't sever any more heads than a vorpal greataxe.
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The 42 strength is way off as well.
Summoners actually take a large amount of work to create accurate high level characters. This player needs to start it as a level 1 summoner and level it up one at a time, checking all prerequisites and costs as he/she goes. That's the only way to be 100% sure it is right
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Why is it that every "broken" eidolon build turns out to be the product of a player who didn't read a single rule in the Summoner class description?
Why is it that every "broken" eidolon build turns out to be the product of a player who didn't read a single rule in the Summoner class description?
Oh how I wish this was the case.
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- Gauntlets are separate weapons that wouldn't be affected by the amulet.
- Maximum number of NATURAL attacks (not "manufactured/unarmed weapon" attacks) is 5 at this level.
- Not enough Evo points for what he has. Blabla, see previous posters for more details.
This eidolon is so broken at every level it makes me cringe.
It is impossible to do this kind of mistakes, as you just have to read the rules to see. Your player obviously tried to f!!~ with you, abusing your absence of knowledge concerning the Summoner class (which has potential for abuse without having to resort to cheat beforehand).
Slap the player with a vorpal rulebook and tell him to get back with a LEGAL character. If whining there is, Rule N°5 : he can leave.
Maxx I actually went the other with it. I dont see how anyone who is competent could think they would get away with this. In my mind it has to be the result of reading comprehension failure. The build so wrong in so many areas that I have to think that the player doesnt know the rules...if you knew them you would no better than to be this obvious.
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Maxx I actually went the other with it. I dont see how anyone who is competent could think they would get away with this. In my mind it has to be the result of reading comprehension failure. The build so wrong in so many areas that I have to think that the player doesnt know the rules...if you knew them you would no better than to be this obvious.
Except for the whole "maximum number of natural attacks per round" clause in the Eidolon Table, that at least clearly says that an eidolon isn't made to attack more than said number per round ? The ridiculousness of such build ? The fact you just need to read the text to do a mind calculation about how it is impossible to stack so much evolutions with so few Evo points ?
Maybe he's illiterate, maybe he doesn't know primary school maths, maybe he's simply stupid ; or maybe he totally did it hoping the DM wouldn't see it. I hope for him it's only the latter.
I'd go so far as to say willful reading comprehension failure. Not like an accident: an accident is missing the whole bit about vorpal not working on fists (what do you mean I can't punch the head off of someone?) Basically each sentence the player misses or gets wrong exponentially increases the probability of willful disregard (or, at best, willful disinterest in ensuring the validity of choices).
Another possibility is that the player found some broken and willfully illegal build online and ran with it, not bothering to ensure that it was valid, because it was SO COOL!
I suspect that the original poster is the one who came up with this Summoner/Eidolon. His only other post is talking about what he should do with a large amount of money with his own Summoner character. I wonder if this was him proposing a way he could have spent it and trying to show off.
LOL....
So far gone it is just sad...
It's like this:
Hey guys, check out this Sorcerer build, it is crazy!
Is there something wrong here or is this class permanently broken?
Human Crossblooded Draconic/Abyssal/Elemental/Boreal Sorcerer 7
Str 26
Dex 40
Con 28
Int 10
Wis 33
Cha 175
etc....
No, no and no. The summoner class is pretty powerful, but anything is broken when you BREAK THE RULES. Hahahah... oh my.