Eldritch Heritage: Can you pick any power? (especially from wild-bloodlines)

[Vrischika111]

Hi,

coming from this thread, the following question:

say you want an animal companion via this method:
* Skill focus (Knowledge-Nature)
* Eldritch heritage (Sylvan): gives you a companion

but if you check this wild-bloodline :

SRD wrote:

Animal Companion (Ex): At 1st level, you gain an animal companion. Your effective druid level for this ability is equal to your sorcerer level – 3 (minimum 1st).

This bloodline power counts as your bloodline arcana and also replace laughing touch (the normal lvl1 power)

I bolded the "problematic" part.

Can you, with eldritch heritage, get a power that counts as an arcana as well ?

[LazarX]

Yes, but you have to spend two eldritch heritage feats in order to do so. So you'd be putting it off quite a few levels, and remember only your Sorcerer levels would count for the animalc companion's advancement so it's pretty much a nonstarter unless you're a Sorcerer from another bloodline who wants the pet.

[Vrischika111]

I don't agree (no offense meant) with this: eldritch heritage only allows to take a power, not an arcana.

also note that it says that your sorcerer level is equal to your level-2
(otherwise this feat is useless)

[Kydeem de'Morcaine]

I see it going either way. It is a hazy area. But I would allow it since I would consider it pretty low powered. A companion as (char level-5) effective druid levels won't add that much.

[LazarX]

Vrischika111 wrote:

I don't agree (no offense meant) with this: eldritch heritage only allows to take a power, not an arcana.

also note that it says that your sorcerer level is equal to your level-2
(otherwise this feat is useless)

That wouldn't make the feat useless. There are other applications besides trying to hedge an animal companion. but your effective level would be character level -5 and you would have to take two eldritch heritage feats before you could have it.

[Mort the Cleverly Named]

I would say no. Wild-blooded is an archetype, not a bloodline, and as such does not allow for the feats. It would be the equivalent of an urban ranger taking an ability from a Rogue archetype instead of "Trapfinding." You don't even need to get into arguing about whether you can take something that also replaces an arcana (I'd say no, but again, it is purely academic at this point).

[Kalyth]

LazarX wrote:

Vrischika111 wrote:

I don't agree (no offense meant) with this: eldritch heritage only allows to take a power, not an arcana.

also note that it says that your sorcerer level is equal to your level-2
(otherwise this feat is useless)

That wouldn't make the feat useless. There are other applications besides trying to hedge an animal companion. but your effective level would be character level -5 and you would have to take two eldritch heritage feats before you could have it.

Im not say whether or not you can take the Animal companion with eldritch heritage, its a very grey area. However I dont see where you are getting that you would have to use two feats to get it. Per the rules Edritch Heritage CAN NOT be taken multiple times. The only one that can is Improved eldritch heritage and it allows the selection of 3rd or 9th level power only, so you can take it twice to get both the 3rd and 9th level power.

[Azten]

I believe he is talking about the fact that you need Skill Focus to take Eldritch Heritage. This line of feats is really more attractive to humans and half-elfs that way.

[EvilMinion]

Mort the Cleverly Named wrote:

I would say no. Wild-blooded is an archetype, not a bloodline, and as such does not allow for the feats.

This is a good point!

I've seen many folks talking about the Eldritch Heritage line of feats and picking the various Wildblooded variations as if they were normal bloodlines.
But the variations are indeed part of the Archtype, not regular bloodlines, and as such would not be available using the Heritage feats.

Is there a errata that says they can be used, or is this just people assuming something incorrect?

[warren Burgess]

EvilMinion wrote:

Mort the Cleverly Named wrote:

I would say no. Wild-blooded is an archetype, not a bloodline, and as such does not allow for the feats.

This is a good point!

I've seen many folks talking about the Eldritch Heritage line of feats and picking the various Wildblooded variations as if they were normal bloodlines.
But the variations are indeed part of the Archtype, not regular bloodlines, and as such would not be available using the Heritage feats.

Is there a errata that says they can be used, or is this just people assuming something incorrect?

While I have not found any Errata anywhere this is what I do at my table.

[Fozbek]

It was previously ruled that anyone who had access to a domain could choose sub-domains. It seems logical to extend that to allowing access to wild bloodlines for anyone with access to normal bloodlines, although technically the two aren't directly comparable.

[Tandriniel]

I believe RAI is that you can choose from sorcerer archetypes when taking Eldritch Heritage. Also, I believe it to be RAI that you can take the feat more than once for different bloodlines. It is cool, but also cost a lot of feats.

Orc, abyssal are significantly more powered than the archetypes.

[LazarX]

Azten wrote:

I believe he is talking about the fact that you need Skill Focus to take Eldritch Heritage. This line of feats is really more attractive to humans and half-elfs that way.

I miscounted then. You'd need three feats, skill focus, eldritch heritage and improved eldritch heritage to pick up that power because that power requires two abilities to be swapped out for it, and the initial feat only gives one of them. You also of course would need the requisite Charisma.

[Kalyth]

LazarX wrote:

Azten wrote:

I believe he is talking about the fact that you need Skill Focus to take Eldritch Heritage. This line of feats is really more attractive to humans and half-elfs that way.

I miscounted then. You'd need three feats, skill focus, eldritch heritage and improved eldritch heritage to pick up that power because that power requires two abilities to be swapped out for it, and the initial feat only gives one of them. You also of course would need the requisite Charisma.

This still doesnt work. Improved Eldritch Heritage ONLY allows the selection of the 3rd or 9th level power of a bloodline. You can not select a 1st level power or Bloodline Arcana by taking Improved Eldritch Heritage. No where in the Description of any of the Eldritch Heritage line of feats does it talk about or even address this issue in any way. You seem to be replying as if this is stated or supported by the rules in which case it is not. This may be how you would run it in your games but this is not how it written.

[Vrischika111]

indeed Kalyth, thx.

the main problem I raise is that you cannot have a bloodline arcana via eldritch heritage. so using this for Sylvan seems not OK.

I re-checked the rules, and for the wild-blooded archetype, the are called "mutated bloodlines" and eldritch heritage mentions only "bloodlines".
as they're both from the same book, that could imply that only pure bloodlines are valid choices.
also "pure" bloodlines doe snot have this problem (having a separate arcana and bloodline power.

So Orc or Draconic vie E.H. is pretty meh...

[mplindustries]

Yeah, I have to agree with a previous poster in saying I don't think you can take an archetype replacement power with Eldritch Heritage.

[Kydeem de'Morcaine]

That is why we were calling it a gray area earlier. It is not specifically addressed.

You can wordsmith it to read an implication either way.
A) It doesn't say 'pure' bloodline. A mutated bloodline is still a bloodline. It is a power which replaces an arcana. So allowed.
B) It is part of an arcana and it is an archtype not the base version. So not allowed.

My first inclination in such a situation is to not allow it. But when I look at how under powered it would be, I would probably allow it.

[Kinithin]

You can't apply an archetype of one class to another class.

Let's say the GM allows you to ignore that.

You can't apply an archetype to a class that doesn't have some the necessary abilities to replace.

Let's say the GM allows you to ignore that.

You can't apply the abilities of an archetype to a class that doesn't have the necessary abilities to replace.

Let's say the GM allows you to ignore that.

Then, you could apply the Sylvan archetype, take the Sylvan bloodline, and take the Animal Companion ability.