
Raef13 |
Hey i have a question about the Zen Archer flurry of blows ability. Since they are at range i was wondering about their FoB. Normally the monk can choose to not do damage and instead do a disarm, sunder, or trip combat maneuver. The Zen Archer FoB segment says that except for not using strength unless using a composite bow their FoB works like a normal Monks FoB. For me it actually makes sense how these maneuvers can be done. Disarm=shot to hand. Sunder=shot at weapon. Trip=shot at foot or snagging clothes. Any help would be appreciated. Maybe feats to allow ranged combat maneuvers.

MurphysParadox |

Combat maneuvers indicate that you may replace melee attacks with CM attacks (the ones you listed state "disarm/sunder/trip/etc your opponent in place of a melee attack").
Shurikens are monk weapons and flurry says you can make the attack with any combination of improved unarmed combat attacks and monk weapons. From the SRD (emphasis mine): "When doing so he may make one additional attack using any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special monk weapon (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham) as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat)."

Grick |

Combat maneuvers indicate that you may replace melee attacks with CM attacks (the ones you listed state "disarm/sunder/trip/etc your opponent in place of a melee attack").
Shurikens are monk weapons and flurry says you can make the attack with any combination of improved unarmed combat attacks and monk weapons. From the SRD (emphasis mine): "When doing so he may make one additional attack using any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special monk weapon (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham) as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat)."
Yes, you can replace a melee attack with a combat maneuver.
Yes, you can flurry with shuriken.
If you want to perform a combat maneuver with a shuriken, flurry or not, it must be a melee attack, using the shuriken as an improvised melee weapon (like stabbing someone with an arrow).
You may be interested in the Called Shots variant rules.

Grick |

Normally the monk can choose to not do damage and instead do a disarm, sunder, or trip combat maneuver.
Flurry of Blows (Ex): "A monk may substitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows."
Zen Archer Flurry of Blows (Ex): "He may not make a flurry of blows with his unarmed attacks or any other weapons."
The Zen Archer cannot flurry with unarmed strikes, therefore he cannot substitute combat maneuvers for unarmed strikes as part of a flurry.

Novennia Narikopolus |

The disarm/trip/Sunder thing int he FOB description is not a FOB specific thing. You can replace any melee attack with those 3 CM. Also it specifically says he can replace an unarmed attack with them, it doesn't even mention one with a weapon. (But those can normally be replaced already, so it's more an "Oh and also you can replace unarmed strikes too")
So no, you can't do it with the bow as a Zen Archer. Otherwise it would basicly be a free Improved feat, as you don't provoke AoO for your manouver if you're 30 ft away.
The fighter archetype Archer has an ability at level 3 that lets you do a few ranged CM, but thats the only one I know.

Grick |

This again. Look at the two words before your bold.
You can oink as part of a chicken dance in place of clucking. You still have to do a chicken dance to oink.
You can sunder as part of an attack action in place of a melee attack. You still have to do an attack action.
It was FAQ'd 15 times in this thread and the Staff response: no reply required.

Novennia Narikopolus |

I'm not quite getting what you're trying to say. When I'm doing a flurry of blows that is a (full-)attack action.
Or are you trying to say it only works when performing a single attack as a standard action? Then, since I would be replacing said single attack, this would be nothing else as say an Overrun that specifically calls for a standard action.
It's not however, this is the same as Trip or Disarm, just written slightly different.

Grick |

I'm not quite getting what you're trying to say.
Trip and Disarm both say they can be made in place of a melee attack. Any melee attack, any time. Attack action, full attack action, attack of opportunity, etc.
Sunder says it can be made as part of an attack action, in place of an attack. By adding "as part of an attack action" that changes the meaning, so that the ONLY time you can Sunder, is when you are using the attack action. And when you do, Sunder is in place of the melee attack.
This means if you're not using the attack action, you can't (normally) sunder. You can't sunder as part of a full attack, or as an attack of opportunity, or as part of a whirlwind attack, spring attack, charge, etc.
Monks have a special clause in Flurry that lets them make a trip, disarm, or sunder in place of any unarmed strike during a flurry of blows.
(Zen Archer monks can't make unarmed strikes during a flurry, so they can't give up any unarmed strikes in order to do those combat maneuvers.)
It's not however, this is the same as Trip or Disarm, just written slightly different.
It's not the same if it's different. And it's different, so thus it's not the same. There are extra words in there that limit how it can be used. (the very same words used in Vital Strike, in order to limit how VS can be used)