I'm currently Fighter 1/ Rogue 1.
My current feats are
Weapon Focus : Sawtooth Sabres
Two Weapon Fighting
Exotic Weapon Prof : Sawtooth Sabres
I'm human, and currently play as the parties DPR. We also have a Human greatsword fighter who deals plenty of damage and has very high HP.
I also only currently have 16hp.
Next level I will get a rogue talent and a feat.
I'm thinking Dodge and possibly skill focus acrobatics to help me get into those flanks. Alternatively Dodge and toughness for the extra resiliency.
Can anyone suggest a must have rogue talent that I've overlooked.
Finally the other feat I was thinking of would be quick draw..
Thanks.
|
If Ultimate Combat is allowed, you have access to all the Ninja Tricks via "Rogue Talent: Ninja Trick". As such, I took the Ninja Trick "Wall Climber".
Gives you a Climb Speed of 20ft on vertical surfaces (i.e., doesn't apply to crawling upside-down on a ceiling), which if you look at the end of the Climb skill description, means a lot more than moving 20ft per move action while climbing: you get a +8 racial bonus on climb checks, don't lose DEX to AC while climbing, and can always Take 10 on Climb checks even while threatened or distracted. And did I mention the +8 to Climb?
Yeah, that Talent/Trick is worth like, three feats. I can bare-hand a blank brick wall while being shot at and move 40ft/round without breaking a sweat.
Post your stats.
16 Str
16 Dex12 Con
12 Int
10 Wis
11 Cha
Quick Draw and Throw Anything, and grab a few extra blades. Or javelins.
You'll be able to melee and do short ranged combat.
Alternatively, Blind-Fight and Combat Reflexes. Very utilitarian combat feats that really pay off when presented with the opportunity to use them.
Double Slice will give you +2 damage to your off-hand weapons.
1) do you have a flanking partner? - if so teamwork feats could be worth a look. If not consider how you are planning om making people flatfooted/flanked...
2) Double Slice is almost a pre. req for twf. So for starters that is most likely to be the best choise.
3) Archetypes? At low level scout could be usefull (but it's better with a 2hw rogue) If you go after intimidate - PA + Cornugon Smash with a Thug Archetype makes you a disabler.
4)Offensive defense could add some much needed Ac - and get's better with level (unsure if the dodge is only against the target of the sneak attack, but by RAW it's against all..
5) Are you planing to go after the Red mantis Assasin prestige class? If you do you'll need (to be evil and...) Alertness.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
...as a 20pt char, you're not getting a lot from your stats and chosen play-style (i.e., +4/+4 TWF'ing MW weapons at 2nd; d6+3 + d6+1 before sneak).
My serious advice is to get this build killed as quickly as possible so you can make something else. Shouldn't take long with low AC and low CON.
= = = =
Medium-sized "Thug" rogue done right:
half-elf
STR+15
DEX:14
CON:14
INT:07
WIS:14
CHA:12
00 saves 02 02 02 (*includes rage bonuses below)
01 barb1 07 02 04 move+10, Raging Vitality, Skill Focus:Bluff
02 rogu1 07 04 04 [Bandit][Thug],[Frightening] SA+1d6
03 monk 09 06 06 [Martial Artist][Catch Off-Guard], Extra Rage
04 rogu2 09 07 06 [Weapon Training:Weapon Focus:Kukri], STR>16
05 rogu3 10 07 07 [Brutal Beating], SA+2d6, Improved Initiative
06 barb2 11 07 07 [Uncanny Dodge]
07 rogu4 11 08 07 [Ambush][Combat Trick:Quick Draw], Wave Strike
* "TWF" using monk Flurry with pair of kukris; d4+6 each at 4th+Belt.
* Catch-off guard lets you sneak-attack with improvised weapon without penalty
* scary good saves
* tons of hit points
* Feint as a swift action
Thanks for all the advice.
I'm thinking of taking dodge for sure and maybe the ninja-trick 'Pressure points'
I have a good flanking partner and getting off 2 sneak attacks a round at -1 dex each would have a huge effect.
Coupled with poisons later on, it could be quite an interesting tactic.
I'm not too keen on killing off my character, apart from his low hp, he's pretty fun to play at the moment!
If you're worried about AoOs, consider taking Dodge as your Feat, and Combat Trick (Mobility) with the Rogue talent.
Be warned that most of the things that make Rogues cool stop being as cool around level 6-7.
|
|
Don't listen to the people telling you to kill your character. Some people are just jerks.
I'm not a jerk; I'm just a cruel harbinger of merciless reality.
Human rogues die like mice.
I do think you would gain a lot from a level of barbarian though so you might consider that part of Mike's suggestion.As much for the will save as anything else. (The monk part is necessary too, for Catch Off-Guard as a freebie -- best rogue feat ever.)
Furthermore, Mike's "done right" build is illegal. Raging Vitality requires 15 constitution.
Switch STR and CON, then it works. (CON is probably a better stat to raise anyway.)
I'm not a jerk.All "bad wrong fun" posts illicite "jerk" from me, in thought if not in writing, and let's be honest, that's what saying "Kill your character and play this instead" is.
Monk is nice for the saving throws, but a waste with regards to BAB and catch off guard is a "meh" feat at best given that his build is designed to become a red mantis assassin and thus heavily focused on not using improvised weapons. If you're that worried about saving throws, cleric would likely be more beneficial. Still, I think loosing more BAB than absolutely necessary is a mistake.
Fighter 1 / Rogue 3 / Barbarian 1 sets up the prc nicely.
Really constructive post ShadowCatX,
Thanks alot. I definitely think dodge is a must.
Regarding AoO's. I think skill focus acrobatics would be more useful, if my modifier is high enough I shouldn't provoke any AoO's?
Barbarian would be nice. I'm not convinced of the Rage Powers in pathfinder, but I'll take another look.
Rogue 3 I think is a must. What did you think of my ninja trick - pressure points idea? Coupled with poisons it could be a really neat way to take down harder mobs by debuffing with each hit.
JJ. I've taken a look at your character, seems similair. Quite cool. I wonder how we'd stack up against eachother, or more importantly how effective we'd be flanking an opponent!
|
|
Regarding AoO's. I think skill focus acrobatics would be more useful, if my modifier is high enough I shouldn't provoke any AoO's?
A couple of pointers on this: one, keep in mind that when you use Acrobatics to tumble, you move at half speed (or full speed, if you want to up the DC by 10). Also, you can't do it at all if your speed is reduced by armor (but you're probably in light armor anyway, right?) so keep that in mind.
And a tip: get the "masterwork tool" item from the Equipment chapter of the CRB, applying it to Acrobatics. I treat mine as "really nice athletic shoes".
JJ. I've taken a look at your character, seems similair. Quite cool. I wonder how we'd stack up against eachother, or more importantly how effective we'd be flanking an opponent!
Coordinated rogues always do well!
I read you plan to use poisons...no. Just stop that thought process now. Go back and read how painstakingly STUPID poisons are to use in this game. You get ONE use for each application, they are EXPENSIVE as all hell, AND the saves when you aren't an Alchemist are just Kobold easy.
Ok. I thought as much :S
Good tip on the masterwork tool JJ!
Here is potentially where I see the character going:
HP: 42
Fighter 1/ Rogue 4/ Barbarian 1/ RMA 1
Str: 18
Dex: 17
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 8
Cha: 10
Speed: 40
Fort 5
Ref 5
Will 5
AC: 18 (Dex 3, Armour 4, Dodge 1)
BAB = +5
Abilities:
Sneak attack +3d6
RAGE
Evasion
Uncanny Dodge
Weapon Spec SS
To hit: +9/+9 w/ MW weapons for 1d8 +4 x2 +3d6 damage (-2 +4) (+ Target gets -2 to hit me for 1d4 rds)
Average damage on 2 hits w/ sneak = 27 Max = 44
Raging: +11/+11 for 1d8 +6 x2 +3d6 (-2 +4) damage (+ Target gets -2 to hit me for 1d4 rounds)
Average damage on 2 hits w/ sneak = 31 Max = 48
Feats:
TWF
Weapon Focus (SS)
Exotic Wep Prof (SS)
Toughness
Rogue Talent: (Combat: Dodge)
Rogue Talent: (Befuddling Strike)
Iron Will
Alertness
You'll notice a slight stat change due to an error on my behalf before.
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Honestly, I don't think you gain anything worth taking the 4th level of rogue for, I'd try and get into the prc as soon as possible.
I'm not familiar with the PrC, but Rogue4 gets you a second talent, plus the usual BAB and skill ranks, and a point of Reflex. So depending on your priorities, it might be worth it.
|
|
I'm not a jerk.All "bad wrong fun" posts illicite "jerk" from me, in thought if not in writing, and let's be honest, that's what saying "Kill your character and play this instead" is.
<shrug> -- He's making a Red Mantis Assassin, right?
Clearly he intends to kill other people in horrible, gruesome ways...no?
;-P
Monk is nice for the saving throws, but a waste with regards to BAB
If you Flurry, monk BAB is same as fighter BAB.
Monk/ninjas make scary-badass assassins due to Ki Pool sickly-sweetness.
and catch off guard is a "meh" feat at best given that his build is designed to become a red mantis assassin and thus heavily focused on not using improvised weapons.What does he do when he does not have surprise and he does not have his sabers?
If you're that worried about saving throws, cleric would likely be more beneficial. Still, I think loosing more BAB than absolutely necessary is a mistake.
Dip-cleric is a shear waste unless there's an extremely uber domain power (like Trickery[Deception]) one is dying to have; otherwise, he can UMD healing.
|
|
Honestly, I don't think you gain anything worth taking the 4th level of rogue for, I'd try and get into the prc as soon as possible.I'm not familiar with the PrC, but Rogue4 gets you a second talent, plus the usual BAB and skill ranks, and a point of Reflex. So depending on your priorities, it might be worth it.
You also get Uncanny Dodge.
If you wanna be a RMA enter ASAP (getting spells ASAP - so you can start using wands)- so unless you want rogue 4 for the scout 4 ability (replaces uncanny dodge) I would stop at rogue 3.
I never plan to be without my weapons either - if someone is able to seperate my from my items being unarmed is going to be the least of my problems...
Remember once you have rogue 2 you can always take the "extra rogue trick" feat.
Also RMA - just get enough Cha to cast the spells and forget about the abilities that gives a Cha based DC - better to increase con. The con based abilities are better, and fort saves and extra HP get you through the day. Not wasting 3 rounds of combat (who EVER uses 3 rounds IN combat for 1 attack?) on a prayer attack.