I've just recently started playing Pathfinder with a group of my friends. 1 DM and 5 Players. I've always been a rock 'em sock 'em kinda guy so when I made my first character, I decided to make a Fighter. After starting the game 1 level behind everyone, (the group was level 3, I was level 2) I had to learn the game very fast. And I did. The group is now all Level 12 characters, and I eventually multi-classed into Barbarian. I stopped using almost all my weapons except the Greatsword, Longsword, and Heavy Steel Shield. The group consist of a Cleric, a Monk, a Ranger, a Magus, and then myself. So here is my problem. While Raging, my character is dealing 2d6+19 damage excluding my power attack bonus with the Greatsword. I'm very much killing almost everything that is thrown at us. At first, I was kinda enjoying myself. Then, I realized how much trouble everyone is having keeping up with me. They can't hit creatures we fight, they're ability to dish out damage is not as high as me, and I've noticed how much they struggle to stay alive in almost every encounter. So, I did some research. I purchased the module we are playing in and looked into it. I was shocked to realize that almost everything we fought was buffed by the DM. They're AC was higher than what was in the book, dealing more damage than what was printed, double, and in some cases triple the enemies maximum hp. So in order for him to deal with me, he made all the encounters harder. But now I feel the group is paying for it. They've expressed to me how much they're not having fun because of how impossible the encounters are becoming. What do I do?
post your stats. let's see what we can do.
Fighter Level 9, Barbarian Level 3 Human
Str 18/22, Dex 14, Con 16/20, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 13
Belt of Physical Might +4 Strength and Constitution
Weapon Focus Greatsword, Cleave, Quick Draw, Dodge, Mounted Combat, Weapon Specialization Greatsword, Power Attack, Mobility, Spring Attack, Iron Will, Toughness, and Greater Weapon Focus Greatsword
Fort 15/17, Ref 6/8, Will 7/9
Cloak of Resistance +2
AC 10 +9 Armor +2 Dex, +4 Shield, +1 Dodge, +3 Ring of Protection = 29
Raging 10 +9 Armor +2 Dex, +1 Dodge, +3 Ring of Protection, -2 Rage = 23
Celestial Armor +3 and Heavy Mithral Shield +2
Greatsword +1 with Furious
While Raging +27+22+17 Dealing 2d6+19
Power Attack +23+18+13 Dealing 2d6+31
It's nothing to do with your character.
If someone (players or DM) isn't enjoying the game, you should be talking about it as a (OOC) group.
I think your character is fine for level 12. It's either your friends are not playing their characters as should be played (because seriously. barbarian fighters are quite straightforward when it comes to strategy) or your DM chose a module that favors frontliners more than anything else, which can happen.
Monks are pretty tough to use unless you know how to work them.
Rangers are a bit situational, but are quite awesome when they're in favor.
Clerics aren't like MMO clerics where you buffspam and healspam MID battle.
And Magi are even harder to understand than Monks.
Barbarians and Fighters however, especially when equipped with a big weapon, are pretty straight forward. Soup us strength as much as you can, dive in, rage, destroy.
I'm not putting you down, but this could be a reason. Especially if your friends are new too.
It's nothing to do with your character.
If someone (players or DM) isn't enjoying the game, you should be talking about it as a (OOC) group.
Agreed. This isn't a problem with a character, it's a problem with a DM not knowing how to deal with encounters. If they're too easy, then he should work on crafting encounters where the other characters will have a chance to shine, and where it isn't always a toe-to-toe slugfest between the monsters and your fighter. Tactics go a long way toward evening the odds.
The group plays regularly. This is just my first time playing a d20 system. I'm more of a d10 system kinda guy. Werewolf, Vampire, and Exalted. I've tried my hand at 3rd Edition once or twice before a few years back. But never really played long because of my crazy work schedule. Our group meets twice a month, every 1st and 3rd Sunday.
This definitely deserves some OOC discussion. If the power disparity is THAT vast between you and your group you could mention letting their characters die. You could even craft some scenario that some bandits ambush you at night and despite your valiant efforts there are simply too many of them and everyone dies (except you of course). Let them reroll at the same level with lessons learned and perhaps offer to help them optimize their characters. Other than this you're going to be one-shotting everything if the DM dials is down, you're going to be saving everyone constantly or you're otherwise going to be the all time star, which I've seen only lead to group stagnation. Apart from this the DM should work to create scenarios that really emphasize their non-combat skills. I'd suggest trying to ratchet up some more RP opportunities and skills based encounters rather than combat.
Something that is important to note about pathfinder and most d20 games in general. A character that completely focuses on one thing will be REALLY good at that one thing.
Your character is completely and totally designed to smash things. Thats fine but it is important to consider your party. The cleric can be very good in combat if optimized, but it sounds as if that hasnt happened. The ranger's focus is split, he isnt all about combat, alot of his character resources are diverted to tracking and the use of skills. Favored enemy and terrain can also be very situational. Monks are a massive trap unless you use some very specific options from the advanced players guide and ultimate combat. The magus can be a power house, but it also required alot of optimization to make work very well in combat because again his focus is split.
You on the other hand too a very easy and very effective combination (fighter/barbarian) which is relatively simple to play (good move for a new player). The solution here will likely be in talking to your group and seeing about either adding optimization to their characters, or adjusting yours. Within a group in a system as flexible as pathfinder the level of optimization has to be similar. And an important aspect of that is how singluar the focus of the various characters in the party is.
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Its important to keep your issues seperated from each other - and there's a big reason why.
1. You're a normal L12 character doing your thing - no issues with that.
2. You are enjoying the game it seems - no issues there.
3. The GM is modifying his materials - this is his perogative.
4. The other players "can't keep up" - this is an issue between the other players and the GM, unless you are willing to take the GM privately aside and discuss. Perhaps he isn't fully aware that other players are feeling that way. The two of you can discuss a few things, not the least of which should include your own awareness that other players don't necessarily "keep up" with the barbarian. The barbarian/fighter type is a true brute - and while your damage per round his high, and your other abilities make you fine for melee, others are engaged in their own way i.e. casting spells, sneak attacking, ranging, or using divine powers. Its really important that you ensure that your perception of the group "not keeping up" isn't affected by the filter of your own classes abilities, that is, others aren't measured by their ability to "do what you do." It may be the case that the GM is aware of the situation, and provides other ways for other players to "keep up" but when it comes to melee---you are king. This is where "fairness" does not mean "equal". If this isn't the case, and if others are truly getting completely hammered all the time, and your character feels like its operating several levels above them, then again, I encourage you to simply and privately mention this to the GM, listen to what he/she says, and if needed, suggest that he have a look at their character sheets. Background: my players just turned L13 last night and include cleric, ranger, wizard, inquisitor and fighter/barbarian. I can tell you that while the fighter's damage per round can be extremely high, all other players are fairly engaged in all aspects of the game... but if the others step forward into melee without finesse and tact - yes they can get hammered. Its the high ac and powerful attacks of the fighter/barbarian that tends to shield others from those melee blows. Thus, consider if your perception of "not keeping up" is the expectation that they can stand up to the types of melee attacks your character can withstand--and if so, its important to note that they never will withstand that stuff. The wizard must keep his distance from enemies, the rogue must use finesse, tumble and sneak attack, the cleric must be wize in placing divine area spells, and the ranger must at times use a double-move as his action just to get into sniping position. "Keeping up with the barbarian" is kind of a misnomer in my opinion. Its each according to his gifts.
Another problem that you and your mates might be faced with is amount of magic and gold piece worth of your items. For instance, you have several items that you use regularly that when added together are greater than what a character of your level should have. For instance, the belt alone is worth 40,000 gold pieces which far exceeds 1/4 of the 108,000 of your total allotment for "misc. magic items". Your ring of protection is 18,000 gold pieces, which is the majority of your 1/4 allotment recommended by the core rule book. Your celestial armor, although within your 1/4 allotment, still is a costly magic item at 22,400 gold pieces. these three magic items totalling over 80,000 gold pieces have essentially elevated your character to one, maybe even three levels higher than your normal party. If I were the DM, I would look at all the magic items, and determine what could be "toned" down. Not necessarily taken away, but toned back a little bit. Make the belt a +2, change your armor, reduce the ring to +2, just these couple of changes and your ability to hit and damage will drop some, as well as some of your utilitiness will drop, increasing the opportunity for your mates to assist in the defeat of the challenge ahead. Other things that the DM needs to do, is challenge your character more with will save spells such as dominate and charms.
Remember a 12th level character should have no more than 108,000 gold pieces of value, this includes the hordes of coins, gems, artwork, jewelry, and potions one owns as well. At glance, your 5 magic items total 97770 gold pieces, putting your toon at the utmost highest extreme for magic items. By the book, it recommends no more than 1/4 of your total value placed in Armors and Shields, Weapons, Wonderous items, and miscellaneous magic.
Just 2 cents. Perhaps toning back your character's magic for the next game session and see how it goes. perhaps it will restore the group balance you (and your DM) are looking for so as not to need to "buff" the monsters so drastically to keep pace with you.
Wow. Lets see if I can respond to all that.
1. 3 Star Wars quotes. Sorry, not a big starwars fan. But, I do in a way feel bad for buying the module. I didn't read ahead though. In the end, I would only be cheating myself out of the fun. I give myself that much credit. It was more or less just to put my thoughts to rest. And I didn't tell him. I told no one in the group.
2. I learn fast, I pick up on things. So, when I started getting the hand of the game, I did offer the other group members ideas on what to buy, and what feats to take to help optimize their characters. It didn't work well. They kind of wanted to build their own character and wanted to do it their way. I still offer help now, in game, with Aid Other sometimes. Just to give my fellow group a temp +2 AC. I don't really have any good skills to help the group out to much except for Perception, Climb, Nature and Swim, so I tend to Aid Other with those skills rarely opting to take the lead in the roll.
3. I did feel we were getting to much gold for the group. But then again, I do have people in my group that loot and hoard just about anything that's worth a copper piece. I have a handful of other equipment, minor things like Eyes of the Eagle, Muleback Cords, Ring of Climbing Lesser, and Boots of Striding and Springing.
4. I also did approach the DM once before when I showed up early to game one day. I told him I wouldn't mind taking my character out and making another one 1 level lower than the group again. I told him I felt that he couldn't deal with what I was doing. He said it was fine, it didn't bug him at all.
5. We play every other sunday, usually the 1st and 3rd sunday of every month. We start around 5pm, sometimes 6pm and end the game around 11pm, midnight the latest.
I do, in the end, thank everyone for their input. I didn't think I would get this many responses. And you all gave me much to think about. Maybe I will bring up a talk with the group to figure out our direction.
Fighter Level 9, Barbarian Level 3 Human
Str 18/22, Dex 14, Con 16/20, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 13
Belt of Physical Might +4 Strength and Constitution
Weapon Focus Greatsword, Cleave, Quick Draw, Dodge, Mounted Combat, Weapon Specialization Greatsword, Power Attack, Mobility, Spring Attack, Iron Will, Toughness, and Greater Weapon Focus GreatswordFort 15/17, Ref 6/8, Will 7/9
Cloak of Resistance +2AC 10 +9 Armor +2 Dex, +4 Shield, +1 Dodge, +3 Ring of Protection = 29
Raging 10 +9 Armor +2 Dex, +1 Dodge, +3 Ring of Protection, -2 Rage = 23Celestial Armor +3 and Heavy Mithral Shield +2
Greatsword +1 with Furious
While Raging +27+22+17 Dealing 2d6+19
Power Attack +23+18+13 Dealing 2d6+31
My opinion is that you did nothing wrong. You choose to be a damage dealer and you deal damage, that's it.
Actually, I'm surprised by how much I like the way you built you PC: you choose what to do, made some simple, right, choices for doing so, spread your resources for a bit of flexibility (as an shameless optimizer I would have never got the spring attack chain with this kind of build), kept in mind your role and made sure you got the essential tools for doing it (but not striving to get the best: you could easily improve your AC via amulet of natural armor and a ioun stone. You could boost your damage with gauntlets of dueling, wielding a falchion with improved critical, take critical feats, take reckless abandon and come and get me and so on).
As a result you do fairly well what your party need you to do (deal damage) but you are still within the reach of most of the other classes (if built effectively). Really, I could go on for hours praising you for you balance between effectiveness and respect for the other players, but I'll stop now, you got the point anyway.
So, the problem is not you. I don't know the module nor the GM's style, but my take is that the problem are both the GM and the other players.
The other players are probably making ineffective choices while all choosing classes difficult to build and use well. Try to convince them to let you look at their sheets and see what they are doing wrong. Talk to the GM to see if you can choose some magical items to improve them a bit.
The GM is probably using the monsters in a inefficient way: maybe he focuses on single monster encounters, or maybe he cheats on the save rolls (a lot of GMs do that since it's easy: this could seriously hurt the monk, the cleric and the magus). Maybe he use all monsters as brutes and not take into account their special ability (your will save is not that great, way behind most of the others I guess)
More importantly you all could suffer from a simple bias: when all of a barbarian attacks hits, with maybe a critical, it's natural to be shocked by that amount of damage. You should try to keep track of all the damage dealt during a couple of encounters by each player and compare those: it could be that they are not so much behind of you, otherwise I fail so see how you could destroy encounters appropriate for your level with a so ineffective party (i.e. a flame strike from the cleric can deal a lot of damage because it can hurt a lot of enemies, but the number from the barbarian can seem higher if you hear "I deal 120 points of damage").
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There's nothing wrong or anything with your character. It's definitely not optimized (not a bad thing) to be a two handed fighter. Like everyone else has said, the other players shouldn't worry about "keeping up with" you in combat. It's just not going to happen. Especially in melee. What they should be worrying about is "how can I use my character effectively in combat?" It's all about working as a team. Have the monk trip or grapple things, the cleric should be trying to debuff monsters (Terrible Remorse from UM is really powerful for being a 4th level spell), if the ranger is an archer, he can get full attacks when you can't, and maguses (magi?) can be pretty strong on their own. An easier way to deal with them feeling like they aren't contributing or whatever is to have the DM change the encounters a bit rather than the monsters. Like have it in difficult terrain where it's hard for you to get to things, or flying monsters.
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Fighter Level 9, Barbarian Level 3 Human
Str 18/22, Dex 14, Con 16/20, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 13
Belt of Physical Might +4 Strength and Constitution
Weapon Focus Greatsword, Cleave, Quick Draw, Dodge, Mounted Combat, Weapon Specialization Greatsword, Power Attack, Mobility, Spring Attack, Iron Will, Toughness, and Greater Weapon Focus GreatswordFort 15/17, Ref 6/8, Will 7/9
Cloak of Resistance +2AC 10 +9 Armor +2 Dex, +4 Shield, +1 Dodge, +3 Ring of Protection = 29
Raging 10 +9 Armor +2 Dex, +1 Dodge, +3 Ring of Protection, -2 Rage = 23Celestial Armor +3 and Heavy Mithral Shield +2
Greatsword +1 with Furious
While Raging +27+22+17 Dealing 2d6+19
Power Attack +23+18+13 Dealing 2d6+31
A very quick answer, from a DM point of view: first, your stats seem mostly fine, but at 12th level, that AC value for a frontline hitter means you'd get hurt almost as often and as much as you're dealing damage - so yes, you're killing pretty much everything, and you risk getting killed quite as much. Teamwork from flanking partners and healers should be one of the main reasons of your high success rate.
So even if your DM has geared up the opponents (bad bad bad looking at the module!) if you don't find enough of a challenge, maybe you're meeting too many low level mooks and not enough on-par baddies.Second, you have way too much magic equipment, at least for my tastes and experience. Well, not really, but you have magic equipment with too high enhancement bonus(es).
At that level, I usually have my players equipped with maybe one item with a +3 enhancement, a couple in the +2 range, and the vast majority still in the basic +1 bonus. And they don't have nearly as many of them, covering defense, offense, stat boosting, skill boosting, gear handling and more.
Yes, I do think the WBL is very much screwed up. And given you're feeling to be playing a somewhat off-balance (power-wise) character, this could be another factor of the equation.
Talk about this stuff with both your fellow players and your DM.
Second, you have way too much magic equipment, at least for my tastes and experience. Well, not really, but you have magic equipment with too high enhancement bonus(es).
At that level, I usually have my players equipped with maybe one item with a +3 enhancement, a couple in the +2 range, and the vast majority still in the basic +1 bonus. And they don't have nearly as many of them, covering defense, offense, stat boosting, skill boosting, gear handling and more.
Yes, I do think the WBL is very much screwed up. And given you're feeling to be playing a somewhat off-balance (power-wise) character, this could be another factor of the equation.
This may be the only case in which I agree with this kind of statement.
As a rule of thumb, more money means favoring non-casters, less money means favoring casters. An at this level non-casters need all the love they can get. This I firmly believe in.
Usually I'd keep the PCs rich (following the PF guidelines), since at this kind of level spellcasters keep getting stronger and stronger. In your group however the casters are behind your fighter: as such dropping the wealth level could actually improve balance.
That could do the job and help the cleric and the magus, not so sure about the monk (their stuff is crazy expensive) and the ranger (an archer could be even more penalized than you). Note however that I still believe that the solution tot he problem lies in the way they spend their resources (not only monetary): we could probably help you more if we knew how the other PCs are built.