Hi!
My barbarian is using a greatsword and wants to kick too. So, if I have Improved Unarmed Strike and TWF, am I able to attack with both Greatswords and Unarmed Strike?
My barbarian is using a greatsword and wants to kick too. So, if I have Improved Unarmed Strike and TWF, am I able to attack with both Greatswords and Unarmed Strike?
Yes.
You could do it without those two feats, also, though with some significant drawbacks.
Hi!
My barbarian is using a greatsword and wants to kick too. So, if I have Improved Unarmed Strike and TWF, am I able to attack with both Greatswords and Unarmed Strike?
No real reason you can't.
As a note, this is generally not an effective or efficient use of feats; Armor Spikes work as well, and only require a single feat investment (TWF), or better yet, a feat spent for an extra rage power can get you a natural attack, which functions as a secondary attack which doesn't penalize your greatsword.
But if you're just concerned with the imagery of kicking while two handing, there is no reason at all this combination wont work.
Alright!
Thanks a lot!
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...or better yet, a feat spent for an extra rage power can get you a natural attack, which functions as a secondary attack which doesn't penalize your greatsword.
Note: any time you mix natural and "normal" attacks, you take TWF penalties on the "normal" attacks:
You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. In addition, all of your attacks made with melee weapons and unarmed strikes are made as if you were two-weapon fighting. Your natural attacks are treated as light, off-hand weapons for determining the penalty to your other attacks. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.
...or better yet, a feat spent for an extra rage power can get you a natural attack, which functions as a secondary attack which doesn't penalize your greatsword.Note: any time you mix natural and "normal" attacks, you take TWF penalties on the "normal" attacks:
You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. In addition, all of your attacks made with melee weapons and unarmed strikes are made as if you were two-weapon fighting. Your natural attacks are treated as light, off-hand weapons for determining the penalty to your other attacks. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.
I wish they'd fix this reference in the core rulebook. However, there are several references available on the boards; the quoted text is incorrect, and the correct rules are available in the Bestiary (and confirmed in many, many statblocks therein).
The ONLY penalty for using natural attacks with weapon attacks is that the natural weapons are secondary regardless of their normal type. The references to TWF should not be there.
...or better yet, a feat spent for an extra rage power can get you a natural attack, which functions as a secondary attack which doesn't penalize your greatsword.Note: any time you mix natural and "normal" attacks, you take TWF penalties on the "normal" attacks:
You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. In addition, all of your attacks made with melee weapons and unarmed strikes are made as if you were two-weapon fighting. Your natural attacks are treated as light, off-hand weapons for determining the penalty to your other attacks. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties.
That quote got superseded by the Bestiary, and finally errataed in the 5th printing.
Page 182—In the Attack section, in the Natural Attacks section, in the third paragraph, delete the following two sentences: “In addition, all of your attacks made with melee weapons and unarmed strikes are made as if you were two-weapon fighting. Your natural attacks are treated as light, off-hand weapons for determining the penalty to your other attacks.”
Basically, the way it works is that natural attacks get bumped to secondary if you make unarmed/armed attacks, and take any penalties which apply to all your attacks (fighting defensively, power attack), but don't take any penalties based on what you're wielding (two weapon fighting, oversized weapons, proficency).
EDIT:
I wish they'd fix this reference in the core rulebook.
They finally did, you ninja :p
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I wish they'd fix this reference in the core rulebook. However, there are several references available on the boards; the quoted text is incorrect, and the correct rules are available in the Bestiary (and confirmed in many, many statblocks therein).
The ONLY penalty for using natural attacks with weapon attacks is that the natural weapons are secondary regardless of their normal type. The references to TWF should not be there.
Wow, thanks for the tip. You're right that the Bestiary lists different rules. Can you point me to where it was stated which one was correct? Gotta add it to my favorites. :D
Thanks!
As a follow up question:
Assuming normal Two Weapon Fighting--e.g. Two Shortswords, Longsword & Shortsword, Quarterstaff, etc. Is there any way under the rules to do better than -2, -2 on one's attacks? I've been pouring over the rules and the best I can find seems to be -2, -2, if the character has the Two Weapon Fighting Feat and the off-hand weapon is light. (And with a quarter staff, the opposite end is treated as a "light" weapon, right?)
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As a follow up question:
Assuming normal Two Weapon Fighting--e.g. Two Shortswords, Longsword & Shortsword, Quarterstaff, etc. Is there any way under the rules to do better than -2, -2 on one's attacks? I've been pouring over the rules and the best I can find seems to be -2, -2, if the character has the Two Weapon Fighting Feat and the off-hand weapon is light. (And with a quarter staff, the opposite end is treated as a "light" weapon, right?)
Yes, I believe that's as low as you can get it. You can start grabbing bonuses like Weapon Focus to make up for it, but the penalties themselves don't go any lower (to my knowledge).
Also, yes, double weapons are treated as a 1H and light for purposes of TWF penalties.
As a follow up question:
Assuming normal Two Weapon Fighting--e.g. Two Shortswords, Longsword & Shortsword, Quarterstaff, etc. Is there any way under the rules to do better than -2, -2 on one's attacks? I've been pouring over the rules and the best I can find seems to be -2, -2, if the character has the Two Weapon Fighting Feat and the off-hand weapon is light. (And with a quarter staff, the opposite end is treated as a "light" weapon, right?)
You can be the two-weapon warrior Fighter archetype, which does eventually get rid of these penalties (or alternatively, gets rid of the penalties for using a one-handed weapon in the offhand).
Beyond that, I'm not aware of any way to remove the penalties, though static bonuses to attacks rolls which are not weapon specific (such as from haste, or bard buffs, or class abilities like Favored Enemy or Smite) can go a long way towards mitigating them.
Is there any way under the rules to do better than -2, -2 on one's attacks?
Two-Weapon Warrior's Improved Balance and Perfect Balance
Not "normal" but:
Thunderstriker's Hammer and Anvil and Balanced Bashing
and
Shield Master
Guys, assuming my barbarian with a large greatsword and kicking, what should be the penalties regarding this attack? Thanks!
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Guys, assuming my barbarian with a large greatsword and kicking, what should be the penalties regarding this attack? Thanks!
Assuming that a Two-Weapon Fighter (with twf feat) with primary medium weapon and a secondary light weapon take -2/-2; and your primary weapon is two size categories larger. I think -4/-6 a good combination to penalties. If you use a normal greatsword, maybe -4/-4.
Godoy, Godoy!
Muda o nick pelo menos!
assuming my barbarian with a large greatsword and kicking, what should be the penalties regarding this attack?
If you're using iterative attacks (due to high BAB) then there are no TWF penalties.
If you're Two-Weapon Fighting, then read the section on Two-Weapon Fighting.
-edit- Oops, I missed that you said Large greatsword. A medium creature can't wield a large greatsword.
-edit2- I suspect you're about to ask about Titan Mauler, which still doesn't allow you to use an oversized two-handed weapon.
assuming my barbarian with a large greatsword and kicking, what should be the penalties regarding this attack?If you're using iterative attacks (due to high BAB) then there are no TWF penalties.
If you're Two-Weapon Fighting, then read the section on Two-Weapon Fighting.
-edit- Oops, I missed that you said Large greatsword. A medium creature can't wield a large greatsword.
-edit2- I suspect you're about to ask about Titan Mauler, which still doesn't allow you to use an oversized two-handed weapon.
Have you seen Massive Weapons ability from Titan Mauler?
Have you seen Massive Weapons ability from Titan Mauler?assuming my barbarian with a large greatsword and kicking, what should be the penalties regarding this attack?If you're using iterative attacks (due to high BAB) then there are no TWF penalties.
If you're Two-Weapon Fighting, then read the section on Two-Weapon Fighting.
-edit- Oops, I missed that you said Large greatsword. A medium creature can't wield a large greatsword.
-edit2- I suspect you're about to ask about Titan Mauler, which still doesn't allow you to use an oversized two-handed weapon.
Here it is!
"Massive Weapons (Ex): At 3rd level, a titan mauler becomes skilled in the use of massive weapons looted from her titanic foes. The attack roll penalty for using weapons too large for her size is reduced by 1, and this reduction increases by 1 for every three levels beyond 3rd (to a minimum of 0). This ability replaces trap sense."
Where does this allow you to use a Weapon which is Two Handed and too large for you?
It applies to using a Large One-handed weapon, or such, which counts as a category higher than normal. A category higher than two handed is still unusable.
-edit2- I suspect you're about to ask about Titan Mauler, which still doesn't allow you to use an oversized two-handed weapon.Have you seen Massive Weapons ability from Titan Mauler?
Yep. Here they are:
Massive Weapons (Ex): "At 3rd level, a titan mauler becomes skilled in the use of massive weapons looted from her titanic foes. The attack roll penalty for using weapons too large for her size is reduced by 1, and this reduction increases by 1 for every three levels beyond 3rd (to a minimum of 0). This ability replaces trap sense."
Notice it only reduced attack penalties, it doesn't allow you to use a larger weapon than you normally would.
Here are the rules for Inappropriately Sized Weapons: "The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all."
And in case you want to somehow use Jotungrip with it: FAQ: "The massive weapon class feature allows her to use oversized weapons with decreased penalty, but does not allow her to use two-handed weapons of that size in one hand."
So as you can see, A medium creature can't wield a large greatsword.
-edit2- I suspect you're about to ask about Titan Mauler, which still doesn't allow you to use an oversized two-handed weapon.Have you seen Massive Weapons ability from Titan Mauler?Yep. Here they are:
Massive Weapons (Ex): "At 3rd level, a titan mauler becomes skilled in the use of massive weapons looted from her titanic foes. The attack roll penalty for using weapons too large for her size is reduced by 1, and this reduction increases by 1 for every three levels beyond 3rd (to a minimum of 0). This ability replaces trap sense."
Notice it only reduced attack penalties, it doesn't allow you to use a larger weapon than you normally would.
Here are the rules for Inappropriately Sized Weapons: "The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all."
And in case you want to somehow use Jotungrip with it: FAQ: "The massive weapon class feature allows her to use oversized weapons with decreased penalty, but does not allow her to use two-handed weapons of that size in one hand."
So as you can see, A medium creature can't wield a large greatsword.
From the FAQ.
Does the Jotungrip class feature allow the Titan Mauler to use oversized weapons?No. Jotungrip allows the titan mauler to use two-handed melee weapons in one hand, but only if the weapon is appropriately sized for the character. The massive weapon class feature allows her to use oversized weapons with decreased penalty, but does not allow her to use two-handed weapons of that size in one hand.
From the FAQ.
Does the Jotungrip class feature allow the Titan Mauler to use oversized weapons?
No. Jotungrip allows...
This is referring to using, say, a large Bastard Sword (a one handed weapon for a large creature, or a two-handed weapon for a medium creature, with a -2 penalty for each category away it is); this is an oversized weapon.
You are not allowed, at any penalty or cost, to use a weapon a size too large that was two-handed for your size to begin with.