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Reading every page of the Pathfinder SRD doesn't make you incredibly good at playing Pathfinder. Creating a fun interesting character that doesn't immediately have access to all of your metagame system knowledge and is enjoyable for your dm/party members to play with is. That's not a gentleman's agreement that's playing the game as intended.
Why I should let any player abuse blood money when it's from the appendix of a book that the majority of the time players aren't going to have a legal copy of? Whos content relates to a sequence of events that have no bearing on the vast majority of people's campaigns. That's called proper dming not being a house-ruling Nazi.
If as a dm I'm supposed to allow every single option without consequence, then every class has easy access to 9th level wizard spells through leadership. I don't understand how theory crafting in this discussion even matters.
Wizards aren't a problem because most people have some semblance of social grace when in a room with one another. Since the entire game is reliant on that concept being reality I'd say that the class is working as intended.
And again that begs my question of: are people who say all of these things about Wizards talking about "in practice"? Because I've read Treatmonk's guides and have watched a lot of people attempt to mimic what they say; and in all my time I have yet to see one come close to overpower the game.Well, one thing that people are ignoring is that Treantmonk's "God" is not an overpowering stack of uber; it's a simply a wizardly focus that is effective in a wide range of situations and that plays better with the rest of the group than many of the other approaches to wizardliness. The save-or-suck specialist such as an enchanter is, for example, generally worse for the game. There are basically three choices -- either you're facing something immune to enchantment spells, in which case the enchanter is useless and everyone else has to cover for him, the opponent makes his save, in which case see above, or the enchanter leaves everyone with nothing left to do.
Treantmonk's God instead makes "your Big Stupid Fighter into a Colossal, Stupid Fighter on crack, and your Glass Cannon into an Adamantium Chain Gun," which in turn means that they have something useful to do (since they're doing the actual dirty work of taking down the 400+hp dragon) and ensures that they have fun (because they're taking down a 400+hp dragon).
As a tendancy, wizards are powerful, field-dealing forces; but easy enough to take down. Is this just a problem that happens at high levels?I don't think it's a problem at all. In my experience, most of the people who complain about overpowered wizards are theorycrafters, often theorycrafters who aren't familiar with the actual rules. For example, the people who are talking about using the Blood Money spell to cast Wish at will haven't usually thought about the 51 Strength damage.
I take offense to that! I am very familiar with the actual rules and because I am familiar with the actual rules I have most certainly thought about the 50 STR damage you need to take to cast a Wish for free. I even thought about it enough to aim for 51 STR, rather than 50. (You don't take 51 STR damage casting Wish by the way, its 50, the 1 extra STR is to prevent being to weak to move and falling unconscious caused by STR 0.)
If your curious how, please see my post above.
Because of this I would posit the exact opposite, most of us "theorycrafters" are more familiar with the rules than the average Pathfinder player.
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So, the class is well designed because it CAN be broken but people can choose not to.
I suppose you're unfamiliar with the term "First Order Optimal Strategy"?
Every game has them. People will use them.
Ignoring them because you think people won't use them means you need to retake Game Design 101.
If the BBEG (the capstone of the campaign, or at least a part of it) is unable to act (x2 with Nauseated AND Stunned), has a 50% miss chance when he DOES get to attack, and is taking penalties in the double digits to his to-hit/damage and AC (if his Dex/Str/Level have been drained to 1), the encounter is TRIVIAL. There is no threat that this BBEG now poses. He is unimportant in the grand scheme, there is no suspense, and he WILL die without a Deus Ex Machina.
When an encounter is turned from a matter of "If" to "When" by the actions of a single person, the encounter has been trivialized.
How many spells is that? What was the BBEG and his minions doing meanwhile? None of them have any way to counter any of these?
And, if before all those spells can be cast, the BBEG is dead from having been hacked to pieces by a warrior, is that encounter also “trivialized”?
How many spells is that?
If you wanna be pedantic about it, only one of them was necessary. We'll pick Stinking Cloud for the nausea.
What was the BBEG and his minions doing meanwhile?
Probably puking their guts out from the cloud of nearly solid stench floating around them.
As I posted way earlier, a spellcaster is likely to have a very high Initiative modifier.
None of them have any way to counter any of these?
They could make the save I guess, but thassaboutit.
And, if before all those spells can be cast, the BBEG is dead from having been hacked to pieces by a warrior, is that encounter also “trivialized”?
So there are no minions now, only the Wizard has to deal with that aspect?
My spells are listed and the tactics that flow from them explained. Please audit away. While I think my examples speak for themselves (they barely cost anything to add your book, even if you didn't take them as your free spells). I suppose I could par Chessmaster Hex down to 9 and post a stub.
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most fighters won't do much against a flying dragon with AMF either.
Mine would engage it, in the air.
Let's see a few examples where my fighters did not do so well, to see how your fighters did. Maybe I can learn a few things.
Personally: my fighter has options other than pure damage, so yes, she remains useful.
Referencing my character sheet
1) finding a hidden kraken in the bottom of the sea.
Ioun Stone: iridescent spindle
2) bringing the whole party to a flying castle in the clouds.
I can fly, and am strong enough to carry the party. Tie this rope around your waist.
3) learning about the real father of an archenemy
Diplomacy +26 to gather information
4) raising an ally from death.
Breath of Life scroll and a +29 UMD
5) defeating an army by your own.
Impossible to hand wave. Too many variables, including army compositions and DM competence. An army can always be constructed to overcome any group of characters with limited resources.
6) deceiving a hostile member of the king council to vote for something he is fanatically opposed to.
Why deceive him. +26 diplomacy to alter his attitude.
[7) fighting a high level oponent that gly, is immune to ramged attacks, and instantly dispels any "fly","overland flight" and "airwalk" spell in 10' radious of him.
I don't need magic to fly
8) infiltrating a cave with several vigilant guards watching the only entrance.
Scroll of Invisibility, +29 UMD
9) continue pushing a rave against vlock dungeon after all weapons have beem sundered.
You cannot sunder my wings
Side note: much easier to sunder a wizards spell component pouches than it is beat my fighters 53 CMD and damage my admantine weapons.
All of those are real examples that have happened in adventures I have played or DM. And in all of them,a caster trivialized it.
My fighter would trivialize it.
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So, the class is well designed because it CAN be broken but people can choose not to.
I suppose you're unfamiliar with the term "First Order Optimal Strategy"?
Every game has them. People will use them.
Ignoring them because you think people won't use them means you need to retake Game Design 101.
You can be as condescending and patronizing as you like you're not winning me over at all. If you're so masterful at game design give me an example of your work.
Wizards work in the vacuum of a competent dm and a group a friendly players, which constitutes the vast majority of Pazio's customer base.
Pathfinder isn't a strategy game it's a "role-playing" game your character isn't supposed to be immediately aware of your metagame, "FOOS" if you want to be competitive with your dm play him in a game of chess, starcraft or badminton.
My Holy Vindicator just picked up a necklace of adaptation.
Fight many Holy Vindicator NPCs do you?
Pathfinder isn't a strategy game it's a "role-playing" game
It doesn't matter what kind of game it is. It is a game. Games have FOO Strategies. Players will use them.
That is a problem with the game, not the player.
If you wanna be pedantic about it, only one of them was necessary. We'll pick Stinking Cloud for the nausea.
Stinking Cloud is a great spell. Love it, use it. But BBEG often have great Fort saves. Not to mention, a decent number of monsters are immune to it.
And, since spell areas are well known, why are the monsters so clustered?
Various spells, SLA and ect will counter Nauseated
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You can be as condescending and patronizing as you like you're not winning me over at all. If you're so masterful at game design give me an example of your work.
He may not be able to. I've learned over the years that Scrodinger's Wizard almost always starts the day by casting greater invisibility on his character sheet.
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Sure, post a build and we'll audit it for you.Strictly RAW, using WBL.
(I should have swapped out the Improved Bull Rush for Skill Focus: UMD. I've not updated my online copy yet.)
That magic moment when the Fighter put his money where his mouth is.
Well done. I'm sure we will see lots and lots of people on the other side back up what they have said with a complete build. That is always what happens in these threads...
Stinking Cloud is a great spell. Love it, use it. But BBEG often have great Fort saves. Not to mention, a decent number of monsters are immune to it.And, since spell areas are well known, why are the monsters so clustered?
Various spells, SLA and ect will counter Nauseated
And the great part is, the Wizard can know and plan around this and simply not cast that particular spell against those people.
We've moved from "Lol Schroedinger's Wizard" to "Schroedinger's Class, Race, and Item matchup is A-OK though", which doesn't really get anyone anywhere.
@Artanthos: I'm having a hard time seeing the "Game breaking" power of your Fighter. I thought it was pretty impressive his skills were so high and all until I noticed it was level 20, so almost all of that 26 is coming from skill ranks.
As well, pretty much the entire build relies entirely on you being an Aasimar.
It's pretty cool, but I really don't see him destroying a campaign. Like, at all.
That magic moment when the Fighter put his money where his mouth is.
Well done. I'm sure we will see lots and lots of people on the other side back up what they have said with a complete build. That is always what happens in these threads...
The problem with his build being that whereas everyone else in the thread bar a couple were talking about the normal level range of up to around 12, he's decided to compare a 20th level character to it, one he's already made, no less (thus bypassing all of the damn work it takes to make a 20th level character sheet).
We are all having a hard time seeing the power of the wizard you still have not posted...
"The problem with his build being that whereas everyone else in the thread bar a couple were talking about the normal level range of up to around 12, he's decided to compare a 20th level character to it, one he's already made, no less (thus bypassing all of the damn work it takes to make a 20th level character sheet). "
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@Artanthos: I'm having a hard time seeing the "Game breaking" power of your Fighter. I thought it was pretty impressive his skills were so high and all until I noticed it was level 20Level 10
Level 15
so almost all of that 26 is coming from skill ranks.
High skill ranks was one of the key points to the build. I wanted a fighter with skills.
As well, pretty much the entire build relies entirely on you being an Aasimar.
That only thing Aasimar gives is wings, and I had to spend 4 feats on those. A human version without wings would have a 5 feat advantage and even more skills.
It's pretty cool, but I really don't see him destroying a campaign. Like, at all.
She was not built to destroy a game, or even be "The Best" at any one thing. She was built to be a competent fighter that was worked well in a group without being shoehorned into being a one-trick pony.
Really, I just liked the Serra Angle art and wanted to build a character to fit.
I'm really not sure how it's "boasting" to say "These two spells work like this."
Which is pretty much all anyone has said. They've pointed out some very simple things a caster (especially a Wizard) can do, and yet the only counter argument anyone's thrown out has been "Yeah well this particular Class/Race/Item combo might beat that" and "My 20th level character can do what your 12th level Wizard can!".
Making a character sheet at level 20 is tiring and tedious, and would ultimately prove nothing since as soon as I posted it I'd get a whole bunch of "Yeah but what-if a six legged snarf who's immune to magic comes along?" comments, meaning I just wasted hours of my time.
She was not built to destroy a game, or even be "The Best" at any one thing. She was built to be a competent fighter that was worked well in a group without being shoehorned into being a one-trick pony.
Which it does. Very well in fact, though I'm still not fond of the "If I use magic off of scrolls and wands it's not really magic and therefore martial characters can be better than casters" argument.
But what you said was that it literally destroyed your GMs campaign. That was your wording.
And I'm not seeing that.
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Which it does. Very well in fact, though I'm still not fond of the "If I use magic off of scrolls and wands it's not really magic and therefore martial characters can be better than casters" argument.
UMD is a skill available to all classes. You can choose to use it or not as you wish.
But what you said was that it literally destroyed your GMs campaign. That was your wording.
I had a fighter that did so, many years ago.
This is not it.
These days, I would simply leave a game with that much hostility between the me and the GM.
With the number of spells and metamagics available, it's only natural that some of them can be abused. That's why you need a GM who knows when to say No.
I take offense to that! I am very familiar with the actual rules...
Not that familiar if you don't realize you take 51 instead of 50. <evil grin> You take one point, plus "a further point of damage for every full 500 gp of the component's value (so a component worth 500–999 gp costs a total of 2 points)." 1000 gp is 3 points, 2000 gp is 5 points, 10,00gp is 21gp, and so forth.
1) finding a hidden kraken in the bottom of the sea.Ioun Stone: iridescent spindle
Swimming is the easy part. Finding a creature that doesn't want to be found, in the vastness of the sea, is the hard part.
2) bringing the whole party to a flying castle in the clouds.I can fly, and am strong enough to carry the party. Tie this rope around your waist.
You are strong enough to carry the party? How much strength is that? And at what level? Because the druid's dinosaur is quite heavy...
3) learning about the real father of an archenemyDiplomacy +26 to gather information
Won't work. Only 2 people knows that in the AP, the real father and a devil.
4) raising an ally from death.Breath of Life scroll and a +29 UMD
You'll need a raise dead, but whatever. This is the answer I was expecting. So the solution is trying to copy a spellcaster.
5) defeating an army by your own.Impossible to hand wave. Too many variables, including army compositions and DM competence. An army can always be constructed to overcome any group of characters with limited resources.
It's an army of bugbears, giants, ogres and trolls. 20.000 of them.
6) deceiving a hostile member of the king council to vote for something he is fanatically opposed to.Why deceive him. +26 diplomacy to alter his attitude.
Because he is fanatically opposed to. It's the equivalent to go to the Pope, and tell him to give the keys of the city to the antichrist. +26 in diplomacy won't cut it.
[7) fighting a high level oponent that fly, is immune to ramged attacks, and instantly dispels any "fly","overland flight" and "airwalk" spell in 10' radious of him.I don't need magic to fly
Fine. How?
8) infiltrating a cave with several vigilant guards watching the only entrance.Scroll of Invisibility, +29 UMD
Again, the way to do it, is being an spellcaster, or faking being one.
9) continue pushing a rave against vlock dungeon after all weapons have beem sundered.You cannot sunder my wings
But I can sunder everybody else in the party. That's why I said "all" weapons. How do you help them? Or are you going to do the quest alone?
I was sincerely waiting for an answer similar to this. "Fighters aren't worse than spellcasters, because they can fake being one with UMD" doesn't really solve it.
This is not it.
These days, I would simply leave a game with that much hostility between the me and the GM.
Now I'm vurry currious.
Do you still have that char sheet?
Perhaps you should correct your understanding of the word."you should consider your primary goal to have your BBEG standing in front of your GC and BSF dazed, stunned, nauseated, STR = 1, Dex = 1, Level = 1, and Blind," none of which actually kills him or even does any hp damage.
But the encounter isn't "trivial," in the sense I understand the word. It's easy, but there's still work for the GC and BSF to do, as opposed to a save-or-die spell that just leaves the rest of the party drooling on themselves.
Or perhaps you should correct yours.
"Trivial" does not mean "Literally no effort is involved". It means very little effort is expended, making the encounter easy (and therefore unimportant).
And since the God wizard expended a non-trivial amount of effort in casting his spell set, then the encounter isn't "trivial" by definition.
If the BBEG (the capstone of the campaign, or at least a part of it) is unable to act (x2 with Nauseated AND Stunned), has a 50% miss chance when he DOES get to attack, and is taking penalties in the double digits to his to-hit/damage and AC (if his Dex/Str/Level have been drained to 1), the encounter is TRIVIAL.
Nope. It's "easy." Trivial literally means "negligible." Negligible effort, negligible risk, negligible expenditure of resources.
This is not it.
These days, I would simply leave a game with that much hostility between the me and the GM.
Now I'm vurry currious.
Do you still have that char sheet?
Ok, now, you have been asked for your character sheet several times, but you want him to divulge yet another?
I have been asked to build from the ground up a level 20 character to prove some kind of point that is likely to be dismissed out of hand by everyone who's wanted to see it.
I have asked Artanthos to provide a character sheet that he has already made, if he still has it, simply to assuage my own curiosity.
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She was not built to destroy a game, or even be "The Best" at any one thing. She was built to be a competent fighter that was worked well in a group without being shoehorned into being a one-trick pony.
Really, I just liked the Serra Angle art and wanted to build a character to fit.
Very nice and well rounded character.
I'll post Chessmaster Hex at 9th here later this evening, but I feel the need to correct Orfamay Quest's Blood Money misunderstanding.
Blood Money:
Even valuable components worth more than 1 gp can be created, but creating such material components requires an additional cost of 1 point of Strength damage, plus a further point of damage for every full 500 gp of the component's value (so a component worth 500–999 gp costs a total of 2 points, 1,000–1,500 costs 3, etc.).
As you can see you can something worth 1,000-1,500 costs us 3 points of Strength Damage. Notice that you can for 3 points of Strength Damage substitute for 1,500 gp of material components. Now for every 1 more STR damage, we get 500 more to our range, thus 4 points of Strength Damage = 1,500 - 2,000, 5 = 2,000 - 2,500... , 50 = 20,000-25,000.
Need any more clarification?
I'll post Chessmaster Hex at 9th here later this evening, but I feel the need to correct Orfamay Quest's Blood Money misunderstanding.
Blood Money:
Even valuable components worth more than 1 gp can be created, but creating such material components requires an additional cost of 1 point of Strength damage, plus a further point of damage for every full 500 gp of the component's value (so a component worth 500–999 gp costs a total of 2 points, 1,000–1,500 costs 3, etc.).
As you can see you can something worth 1,000-1,500 costs us 3 points of Strength Damage. Notice that you can for 3 points of Strength Damage substitute for 1,500 gp of material components. Now for every 1 more STR damage, we get 500 more to our range, thus 4 points of Strength Damage = 1,500 - 2,000, 5 = 2,000 - 2,500... , 50 = 20,000-25,000.
Need any more clarification?
I see where the confusion comes from.. It's poorly written. As written it assumes:
1-499 = 1
500-999 = 2
1000-1500 = 3
This is wildly inconsistent. I think Q was operating under the 500-999 = 2 Which would have made the 25k component worth 51STR.
Taken for it's actual wording and ignoring their examples a point for every full 500gp would follow this progression:
1-500 = 1
501-1000 = 2
1001 - 1500 = 3
So indeed 50Str.
The authors got careless.
To get us back on track, I think most folks agree that especially at the very highest levels, a Tier 1 spellcaster can do a lot and be more "powerful' than a pure martial.
But does a "g-dwizard' actually rule? Honestly I am un-impressed with Treatmonk, his stuff is so 3.5.
To get us back on track, I think most folks agree that especially at the very highest levels, a Tier 1 spellcaster can do a lot and be more "powerful' than a pure martial.
But does a "g-dwizard' actually rule? Honestly I am un-impressed with Treatmonk, his stuff is so 3.5.
To be honest, I find Treatmonk guide not that powerful. Quite the oppositte, it's a guide about making a wizard that teamworks, let the non-casters get their spotlight, and even help them to do so. Fighters can do much more damage if the God-izard is buffing them, and rogues have easier time sneak-attacking blind targets who have been glitterdusted.
It doesn't mess too much with the really broken spells (like simulacrum, planar binding, and other stuff). It's a wizard that controls battlefield, and those ussually make the party happy. While the wizard keep a few targets at bay with wall of force, the rest of the party can dish a lot of damage to the single target that wasn't controlled, and everything is smothier. I don't find that problematic. Au contraire.
I once made a sorcerer in Pathfinder. I took blasting as a base (although only 2 spells were blasts, but they were the more commonly used). The rest of the players complained to the GM, which then talked to me, because everything was dead before they could act (I was metamaging fireball to do a TON of damage. On par CR creatures died with a failed Save, or took 1/2 hp or more with a succesful save.) So I changed my ussual combat method. My first spell was, normally, haste, and I alternated between Enlarge Person to the dwarven fighter or Improved invisibility to the rogue. When needed, I could still blast the hell out of anything, or summon Celestial Tyrannosaur and clean the board. Against a BBEG who had antilife shell and fire inmunity, I spammed Enervation until I killed him by negative levels (lol :P) But buffing others in most combats, the game was funnier for everybody, so I did that.
Speaking to the argument that a GM can prevent the wizard from having access to buy spells and having downtime. That is a problem with the GM, not the wizard.
There are certain assumptions in the game, one is that all characters will have access to magic items. Take away magic items and it becomes harder and harder for a fighter or a rogue to keep up with magic using classes. So if you want to screw them over, take away magic items.
Or instead of taking away all items, you can just take away scrolls and spellbooks. That just screws the wizard. That's a great GM there!
Base Value and Purchase Limit: This section lists the community's base value for available magic items in gp. There is a 75% chance that any item of this value or lower can be found for sale in the community with little effort. If an item is not available, a new check to determine if the item has become available can be made in 1 week. A settlement's purchase limit is the most money a shop in the settlement can spend to purchase any single item from the PCs. If the PCs wish to sell an item worth more than a settlement's purchase limit, they'll either need to settle for a lower price, travel to a larger city, or (with the GM's permission) search for a specific buyer in the city with deeper pockets. A settlement's type sets its purchase limit.
A wizard should be able to find 75% of the spells he wants on the first try. Once he gets teleport (with one of his free spells), he can teleport to a major city at night (probably bringing the whole party with him) and teleport back in the morning. How is it hard to get more spells? The GM has to really be working specifically to prevent it.
While he is at it he can force a paladin to kill some children and make him fall. Players love that!
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And shockingly no builds from the Schrodinger side yet...
@Rynjin - You were actually asked to post any build of any level you like, because builds are what characters are made of.
You do realize the irony of you asking for someone else to post a build in the format you desire while refusing to post...well...anything.
Schrodinger's Wizard invisible character sheet seems to have been given permanency...
My experience is that different DM's have different preferences and players typically are happy to accommodate (they don't have to run the game). I run low magic worlds where crafting is slower, more expensive and where there are no meta-magic rods, pearls of power or pages of spell knowledge. In addition wizards do not get the 2 spells/level, they acquire them in game play. Is that to everyone's taste? No, but the game works for the players and is still balanced.
That's fine, but it doesn't relate to casters being more powerful or not than martials in regular pathfinder. Certainly, in a Dead Magic World, casters are weaker than fighters, rogues and monks. And in high tech worlds, a fighter specialized in desintegrating ray pistol is very strong too. But we are arguing about the base assumptions of the game, and in those, Pearls of powers exist (and are damn cheap to make)
@Rynjin - You were actually asked to post any build of any level you like, because builds are what characters are made of.
I was asked to post a build to compare to Artanthos'. I assumed that meant of a level with it as well.
I'll make a Wizard of around 10 or 12 later then.
I need food and picking spells gives me a headache.
You do realize the irony of you asking for someone else to post a build in the format you desire while refusing to post...well...anything.
I haven't asked anyone to build a character, I asked for an already extant build because I'm genuinely baffled as to how a Fighter can "destroy a campaign".
...no one ever died from a Grease spell.
You are SO wrong about that.
Leaving aside [explosive rune's] abysmal damage, I'm not sure what you think that this does in terms of combat application. I suppose you could say that you take out a parchment with them and shove them in the face of your enemies, which makes them read them and causes them to detonate...but since you're holding it, you'll also be close enough to take the damage with no save.
In other words, having a hundred pages of explosive runes doesn't really earn you anything.
I put them on paper air planes and throw them at people.
[Animate Dead is] also an evil spell, which means that repeated castings are likely to cause an alignment change. That's not something really covered by the rules, but it's certainly within the purview of the GM to enforce that your character keeps using animated bodies.
Game developers have clarified that it most definitely will change your alignment, given enough castings.
Wayang spellhunter/magical lineage hijinks is pretty easy to prevent considering Traits are an optional rule set.
GM can't prevent a player from taking Additional Traits without resorting to GM fiat power (as the feat is intended even for games that don't normally use traits).
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Very well. Let us play DM Fiat (all encounters tailored to block specific methods)
Swimming is the easy part. Finding a creature that doesn't want to be found, in the vastness of the sea, is the hard part.
Mind Blank: even a wish will reveal nothing. Your wizard's spells will not help.
You are strong enough to carry the party? How much strength is that? And at what level? Because the druid's dinosaur is quite heavy...
I linked the character, complete with encumbrance info (you have yet to link your wizard). I have a heavy encumrance of 1600 lbs.
The Druid is a full caster. He can manage his own dinosaur.
Won't work. Only 2 people knows that in the AP, the real father and a devil.
Remember that Mind Blank? Your wizard gains no information.
You'll need a raise dead, but whatever. This is the answer I was expecting. So the solution is trying to copy a spellcaster.
Yes, the answer is using available game mechanics to their full effectiveness (and I could acquire and use a raise dead scroll). So, whatever.
It's an army of bugbears, giants, ogres and trolls. 20.000 of them.
Try to beat that with a single wizard of any level with me as the GM. You will loose without a DM fiat (or plot device).
As stated. GM competence is one of the variables.
Because he is fanatically opposed to. It's the equivalent to go to the Pope, and tell him to give the keys of the city to the antichrist. +26 in diplomacy won't cut it.
So DM Fiat. Rules are being ignored. The DC for the stated level of aversion is 25 + the character CHA. Even if the NPC has a 20 CHA, I still only need to roll a 4+
DM Fiat: Mind Blank and a Protection spell of the appropriate flavor. Your not going to influence him with magic.
Fine. How?
Read the linked character sheet.
Again, the way to do it, is being an spellcaster, or faking being one
You mean by using resources available to any character of any class. Or should we simply disregard even core rulebook options that might threaten your opinion.
To be honest, I find Treatmonk guide not that powerful. Quite the oppositte, it's a guide about making a wizard that teamworks, let the non-casters get their spotlight, and even help them to do so. Fighters can do much more damage if the God-izard is buffing them, and rogues have easier time sneak-attacking blind targets who have been glitterdusted.
It doesn't mess too much with the really broken spells (like simulacrum, planar binding, and other stuff). It's a wizard that controls battlefield, and those usually make the party happy.
That's the goal of his guide. Whether his guide is good or adequate in other ways (especially since he dropped out as PF expanded, so his guides aren't up to date).
But the "fluff" at the beginning of the guide makes it clear he is writing it for Wizard PCs who want to enhance, rather than break, games. It's also one reason why he "downgrades" certain spells.
It's not just a raw OPing guild, it's also written to be geared towards cooperative play. Sort of like the Paladin guides that go into the RPing how not to play a Paladin vs. how to play a Paladin in ways that integrate with a party rather than cause friction within parties.
So it's also true that as written Treantmonk's guide doesn't give advice on how to best optimize wizards (or any other characters) so as to break a campaign. He consciously chose not to provide tips on "this is how you can use X + Y + N in gamebreaking ways."
Anyone with enough system mastery can break a campaign but it's generally considered a jerk move, unless the adventure or campaign has deliberately been designed to be OP, to see what a whole party can do with OP characters in an OP campaign.
I'm not trying here to contradict anything you said, just adding clarification.
*Casts evacuate thread again and poofs away*
I'll post Chessmaster Hex at 9th here later this evening, but I feel the need to correct Orfamay Quest's Blood Money misunderstanding.
Blood Money:
Even valuable components worth more than 1 gp can be created, but creating such material components requires an additional cost of 1 point of Strength damage, plus a further point of damage for every full 500 gp of the component's value (so a component worth 500–999 gp costs a total of 2 points, 1,000–1,500 costs 3, etc.).
1500 is obviously a mistake on the editors part. 1500 gp is three FULL 500 gp units of value, PLUS the additional one point, for a total of 4.
As you can see you can something worth 1,000-1,500 costs us 3 points of Strength Damage
And it's also obviously a mistake, since 1000 and 1500 can't both be in the same 500gp range. If 1500gp costs 3, 1000gp would cost only 2. Similarly, if 999gp costs 2, 1000gp should cost 3, and 1500 costs 4.
Need any more clarification?
Nope. None is needed.
Your interpretation is wrong, each STR converts to 500 gp worth of value, as I neatly summarized, every point of damage adds 500 to the total. It's that simple. Yes 1500 is three full 500 values.... thats the point. FAQ it if you want, but your interpretation is poor and at odds with the spell.
Without further ado, I've scaled Chessmaster Hex down to 9th. Please feel free to make corrections since I had to readjust basically everything. (The level 20 version gets +5 inherent to all his stats after all.)
Chessmaster Hex N Human Wizard (Conjurer 9)
HD 9d6 + 27 (Con) + 9 (Favored Class)
AC: 20 = 10 + 2 Dex + 4 Armor + 4 shield
Str: 9
Con: 16 (14+2 enhancement)
Dex: 14
Int: 26 (18+2 racial+2 Level+2 Enhancement)
Wis: 7
Cha: 8
Init: 13 (2 + 2 Trait, 4 II, 4 Familiar + 1 Competence)
Traits: Reactionary, Dangerously curious
Skill Ranks: Balance 5, Fly 5, Knowledge Aranca 6, Knowledge Planes 7, Knowledge Nature 6, Knowledge Religion 7, Perception 9,
Spellcraft 9, stealth 9, Use Magic Device 9
BAB: 4
Fort:8 (+2 Con, +3 Res)
Ref:8 (+2 Dex, +3 Res)
Will:7 (-2 Wis + 3 Res)
Arcane School - Conjuration / Opposition Schools - Enchantment/Evocation
Human Traits: +2 Int, +1 Skill per Level, Bonus Feat
Feats: Spell Focus (Conjuration) 1, Improved Initative 1B, Scribe Scroll W1B, Alertness (F) Augment Summoning 3, Superior Summoning 5, Craft Wondrous Item W5B, Persistent Spell 7, Heighten Spell 9.
Magic Items: Ioun Stone, Orange (15k), Lesser Metamagic Rod, Extend (3k) Blood Reservoir of Physical Prowess (1k), Book of Extended Summoning, Lesser (375), Book of Extended Summoning, Standard (1,375), Bead of Karma (10k), Blessed Book (6,250), Handy Haversack (1k), Ring of Sustenance (1,250) Headband of Vast Intelligence (Acrobatics) (2k)
Belt of Mighty Constitution (2k), Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone, Cracked (250) Shirt, Quickrunner's (500), Wand of Infernal Healing (750), Wand of Lesser Restoration (750)
Spell Component Pouch x5 (25), Spellbook
Spells Known:
1st - Protection from Evil, Mage Armor, Summon Monster I, Grease, Color Spray, Enlarge Person, Blood Money, Snowball, Anticipate Peril, Featherfall,
2nd - Mirror Image, Summon Monster II, Bull's Stength, Glitterdust, Blur (20), Create Pit (20), See Invisibility (20), False Life (20), Fox's Cunning (20), Command Undead (20)
3rd - Explosive Runes, Summon Monster III, Haste, Shink Item, Dispel Magic (45),
Arcane Sight (45) Fly (45)
4th - Black Tentacles, Summon Monster IV, Animate Dead, Symbol of Slowing,
5th - Summon Monster V, Permenancy, Teleport (125), Symbol of Pain (125)
Other Items - 15 GP
Familiar: Vicious - Scorpion, Greensting
Alertness, improved evasion, share spells, empathic link, Deliver touch spells, Speak with master, Speak with animals of its kind.
This character is capable of performing all of my listed tricks. To refresh:
Bloody Skeleton + Party member + Explosive Runes - Use your your stored up Explosive Runes as a massive nuke. Make the Bloody Skeletons in a Desecrate effect with your divine caster for 4 x CL Animate Dead and +2 HP for your Bloody Skeletons. Furthermore, you can control 1 additional skeleton, through Command Undead (Day/per level, so this only need to be cast every 14 days.
Shrink Item - On a wall, use to escape, as a bridge, as a big object to drop on enemies, or as a place to store nour Symbols (see below).
See also Tinfoil hat trick - Get yourself a cone shaped hat to duck under when the Antimagic field hits.
Symbol of Pain/Symbol of Slowing (Only if you can add them to your spellbook otherwise skip.) Start accumulating these early and put them on your Shrunken Wall from above. Debuffing spell slot free! (Read up on extending casting time to attune creatures.)
Chessmaster Hex accumulates Explosive Runes during off time allowing him to maintain a large stash. Any day Hex is not adventuring, he can stockpile 11 Explosive Runes. Working in conjunction with his party divine caster, he can make a Symbol of Pain/Symbol of Slowing Permanent (he increases the cast time to 1 hour to attune his party members. Symbol of Slowing is Heighten'ed to 5th. (DC 23 for both) Hex can accumulate 2 Permanent Symbols a day with a divine caster.
Hex prefers to enter dangerous areas with Invisibility + Fly, rarely breaking out of Invisibility, as most combats can be solved by dropping the wall (not on the enemy) and enlarging it. This does not break invisibility and unless his enemies can make X Saves (or avert their gaze) they are going to be Slowed and at -4 penalty on attack rolls, skill checks, and ability checks. This makes clean up a straight forward affair.
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Chessmaster Hex accumulates Explosive Runes during off time allowing him to maintain a large stash. Any day Hex is not adventuring, he can stockpile 11 Explosive Runes. Working in conjunction with his party divine caster, he can make a Symbol of Pain/Symbol of Slowing Permanent (he increases the cast time to 1 hour to attune his party members. Symbol of Slowing is Heighten'ed to 5th. (DC 23 for both) Hex can accumulate 2 Permanent Symbols a day with a divine caster.
Sadly, his tactics are repeated with such regularity that they have become well known to his enemies.
They enjoy them so much that they are copied. By Every evil spellcaster in the land.
In fact, from now on every single time Hex engages an enemy spellcaster he is hit with dozens of Bloody skeletons stuffed full of explosive runes and walls full of symbols.
Divination also seems to have become the school of choice for some reason.
Fair is fair. If a PC wants to abuse rules.....
At least the rogues and monks stand a chance of surviving.