Well that's a broad question. What are the specs of the character you're building? You need a certain level minimum for the feat chain, you need to decide a stat build system (the standard being 15pb), traits? How much detail do you want? Should they be duel-wielding swords as Nightcrawler is depicted doing? what about races? give me a few more parameters, and I'll post a build.
The best Dimensional line of feats user I can think of is Monk. Full Action = Flurry + Dimension around all over the place.
In the process here. Do you want the whole chain of feats up to dimensional savant? that'd be pretty high level by the time I get all the feats. I'll just assume level 11 (the minimum for a bard to have dimension door and then get the first feat in the chain.)
In the process here. Do you want the whole chain of feats up to dimensional savant? that'd be pretty high level by the time I get all the feats. I'll just assume level 11 (the minimum for a bard to have dimension door and then get the first feat in the chain.)
Actually a magician bard could get it sooner via summoner list and that special class ability I think. Last I checked it was 8th, but bard would be sub optimal.
It's my opinion that a bard wouldn't be able to access the ability enough times a day to make it the staple action I'd want it to be if my character had it. Let's face it, this is a really cool ability and you're likely to only play it once, so why not make it a great one trick pony?
The monk offers the least painful method of use for this, but it's late (12th level) and the feats hurt. He can do it a lot right away at 12 though.
A fighter/wizard/EK would be my next best guess, but he only gets it around 10thish I think. The reason I like the EK build over the bard is the lower cost of pearls of power, not only do you get more casts but you presumably have a bound weapon for one more and you can blow some cash on those pearls to further your one trick pony.
I think the Magus is probably the best thing going for this since they get dimension door at 10th, they're prep casters (pearls of power are cheaper... ish) and the icing on the cake is their spell recovery mechanics, especially once they improve at 11th. This coupled with the extra feats they get AND the likelihood they are more prepared to cast in combat since it's their "thing" make it all a package I have a hard time calling anything but the best for this purpose.
That's just my two copper though.
Here's what I got. It's not complete, but the rest is not essential to a functional build. I went lvl 12, with the last 2 in fighter, just for feats and BAB. Lastoth has a very good point about limited number of uses in a day. Monk would be a better choice (and thematically more appropriate if it's an honest attempt to recreate Kurt Wagner's Character himself.) I took a few shortcuts in the character creation that I might not have if I had more time. Anyways, enough of my babbling, here you go.
CR 11
Medium humanoid(human)
Init + 5 Senses perception + 15
DEFENSE
AC 26 ; touch 18 , flatfooted 18 (+7 armor, +5 dex, +1 dodge)
hp 87 ( 10 d 8 + 2d10+ )
Fort + 5 Ref + 14 Will + 7
Defensive Abilities: +4 AC vs. Ao0, +1 to will vs. fear
OFFENSE
Speed 20 ft.
Melee +3 short swords + +14/+14/+9/+4 (d6+1 19-20/x2)
Ranged weapon + 16 ( damage/effect )
Spellcasting: CL Concentration: + 17 (+21 to teleport)
4th (1/day-2 known) dimension door
3rd (4/day-4 known)
2nd (5/day-5 known)
1st (6/day-5 known)
Cantrips (6)
STATISTICS
Str 14 , Dex 24 , Con 14 , Int 10 , Wis 10 , Cha 16
Base Atk +9/+4 ; CMB + 11 ; CMD 28
Feats:arcane strike (+3), combat casting, disruptive, spellbreaker, two-weapon fighting, improved two-weapon fighting, weapon finesse, combat reflexes, dodge, mobility, combat patrol, dimensional agility, dimensional assault.
Skills: acrobatics +22, intimidate +18, k(arcana, dungeoneering, engineering, geography) +4, perception +15, perform(oratory) +18, ride +19, stealth +22
SQ: arcane bond,blade thirst +2, distraction, fascinate, inspire courage +2, inspire competence +3, dirge of doom, inspire greatness
Treasure +2 agile mithral breastplate, two +3 shortswords, belt of physical perfection (+4), 1600 GP in mundane equipment
Here's what I got. It's not complete, but the rest is not essential to a functional build. I went lvl 12, with the last 2 in fighter, just for feats and BAB. Lastoth has a very good point about limited number of uses in a day. Monk would be a better choice (and thematically more appropriate if it's an honest attempt to recreate Kurt Wagner's Character himself.) I took a few shortcuts in the character creation that I might not have if I had more time. Anyways, enough of my babbling, here you go.
** spoiler omitted **...
Why not a Magus? It's essentially what you're building toward anyway, and they get nicer spells for their castings.
A Synthesist could start taking the feat chain at 7th, and he could have claws.
-Matt
I notice no one has said anything about how to get Kurt Wagner's trademark prehensile tail. Unglaublich!
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I notice no one has said anything about how to get Kurt Wagner's trademark prehensile tail. Unglaublich!
Yeah, it really seems like a Synthesist summoner would be the best bet for mimicking the abilities needed (especially the tail :P), though I'm sure Bard would make an excellent candidate for the feat chain. I mean... it's not like it's a WORSE bard for doing it, it just plays differently. He's still buffing, so what's the harm, right?
(also, to practice my German: Unglaublich=Unacceptable?)
So the bard is not the optimal class for this build, but it was a fun exercise in any case. I am curious why you thought that bard were better able to duel wield and cast? yes, many of their spells have only verbal components, but many have somatic components as well. I would say the ability to cast and duel wield lies most strongly in magus or monk territory (if you have a flexible definition of "casting" )
The magus doesn't need the feats, since he can teleport and full attack at level 13, for 2 arcane point with spell recall. At level 15 with spell perfection and quicken, he can also teleport back.
I disagree, he most certainly needs the feats. I think you are missing the entire point of the feat chain.
Dimension Door ends your turn, without the entry feat he arrives at the location of his choice and his turn ends without action unless I am missing something. Your DM may rule that you still get your full attack, fine.
More importantly you are missing that the ultimate end goal of this is to be able to cast dimension door in addition to a full attack action, which as a magus already grants you the ability to cast ANOTHER spell.
Essentially a normal magus might be able to dimension door in and attack (depending on RAI), a magus with this feat chain can jump in and drop a full attack with an intensified shocking grasp AND teleport between each attack during the full attack so as to not lose any potential additional attacks if (when) he kills his primary target.
It doesn't get more awesome than that.
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So the bard is not the optimal class for this build, but it was a fun exercise in any case. I am curious why you thought that bard were better able to duel wield and cast? yes, many of their spells have only verbal components, but many have somatic components as well. I would say the ability to cast and duel wield lies most strongly in magus or monk territory (if you have a flexible definition of "casting" )
The Arcane Duelist Bard Archetype gains the Arcane Bond: Weapon class feature, and must be wielding his bonded weapon to cast spells. In addition, he may also complete somatic components for spells with said weapon, which is why dual-wielding could work.
I admit, I like the bard as a dual-wielder, just because Inspire Courage helps shore up the to-hit penalties, AND the damage bonus stacks equally with both weapons, despite the 1/2 strengh mod. on the off-hand. Buffs like Good Hope amplify how effective this is, and with the ability to Dimension Door in and get a full-attack, I can see the build as being pretty effective.
Granted, a Synthesist summoner would be BETTER for the build, but that could be said about MOST single-character damage-dealing builds. The Bard deals decent damage AND increases his allies' damage as well, so I tend to lean more towards the bard myself.
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The problem with all of these ideas so far is that none of them make anything remotely resembling Nightcrawler until fairly high level. So, rewind: what's a faithful depiction of Nightcrawler?
Going to movies, where do the X-men first discover Nightcrawler hanging out? An old cathedral, where he's hallucinating/reciting pseudo-religious mumbo-jumbo -- and that grants us one clue as to what he might be: a divine caster. We also know that he's quite intelligent and has a lot of skills (he's eventually a mechanic for the X-jet in the comicbooks). He's nice, but a practical-joker. Obviously not human.
= = =
Nightcrawler (20pt)
STR:12
DEX+17
CON:12
INT+14
WIS:14
CHA-10
Alignment: CG
-- Background: tiefling "rescued" (kidnapped Hellboy-style?) from a dark outer plane as a child.
Trait: Adopted (raised by gnomes to qualify for 3.5 Races of Stone's Divine Prankster PrC), Reactionary (INIT+2)
01 ninja1 SA+1d6, Improved Initiative
02 ninja2 [Ki pool][Trick:Vanish]
03 cleric1 (Deity-less) [Travel][Trickery(Deception)], Combat Expertise
04 ninja3 SA+2d6, DEX>18
05 ninja4 [Uncanny Dodge][Combat Trick:Blind Fight], Moonlight Stalker
06 cleric2
07 cleric3 Moonlight Stalker Feint
08 divpran1 WIS>15, [Comedic performance][Inspire Courage+ 1]
09 divpran2 3rd, Moonlight Stalker Master
10 divpran3 [Disguise Spell:Somatic]
11 divpran4 4th (can cast Dimension Door), Dimensional Adept
12 ...etc.
Class skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana)(history)(local)(nobility)(planes)(religion)/(Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex), Swim (Str) and Use Magic Device (Cha)
Dimension Door ends your turnTeleport doesn't.
More importantly you are missing that the ultimate end goal of this is to be able to cast dimension door in addition to a full attack action, which as a magus already grants you the ability to cast ANOTHER spell.No. Spell combat is a full-round action.
WIth teleport you also have a chance to end up several hundred miles from the 20 feet you intended to move. Teleport mishap anyone?
@ Mike Schneider: It's not actually any software, It's an excel spreadsheet I've rigged to make for quick builds and such. I can give you the file, but it might not be very effective until you get used to it.
Well, if we are looking at the movie, any one man assault on the White house would require a SLIGTLY high level. But that's my opinion. For a less casty Nightcrawler, try this:
Tiefling Ninja 6 / Horizon Walker 3 / Fighter 2 can have all the necessary feats by level 11... If The Dimensional feats are considered combat feats. Vanishing Trick is a good low level concept of disappearing one place and appearing another, just takes longer. It is also possible to take the Sanctified Rogue archetype with this ninja, because it replaces class features that the ninja has.
I notice no one has said anything about how to get Kurt Wagner's trademark prehensile tail. Unglaublich!Yeah, it really seems like a Synthesist summoner would be the best bet for mimicking the abilities needed (especially the tail :P), though I'm sure Bard would make an excellent candidate for the feat chain. I mean... it's not like it's a WORSE bard for doing it, it just plays differently. He's still buffing, so what's the harm, right?
(also, to practice my German: Unglaublich=Unacceptable?)
Not sure, actually, but it's Nightcrawler's trademark exclamation.
Also, few other anecdotal facts about the canonical Nightcrawler (not the caricature from the movie)- he's somewhat playful, yes, but also very religious, is an expert fencer (probably the best with a sword after Logan/Wolverine), is in fact half-demon and is sometimes called "elf" as a pseudo-nickname.
Unglaublich = unbelievable ... (the verb glauben = to believe) yay German! :)
I suppose in order to play the character I made, I'd have to finish putting the spells together, other than that, I would say their role is to be a flank master and to get to the key opponents (usually casters) first and take them out. Essentially, he would be the glass cannon.
I don't necessarily think they would. combat maneuvers require much specialization and focus of character materials. This character is already spread very thin on what niche it fills in a party. (something along the lines of glass cannon) I would say that combat manuevers would just further diffuse it away being successful in any one field. At present, I would play him as a damage dealer/battlefield control type. He draws attention in his direction and dodges hits while his allies get off scot-free. At the same time, he'll be mowing down spellcasters with just the right boost to his own damage (in the form of a number of different swift/move action buffs)
It's my opinion that a bard wouldn't be able to access the ability enough times a day to make it the staple action I'd want it to be if my character had it. Let's face it, this is a really cool ability and you're likely to only play it once, so why not make it a great one trick pony?
The monk offers the least painful method of use for this, but it's late (12th level) and the feats hurt. He can do it a lot right away at 12 though.
A fighter/wizard/EK would be my next best guess, but he only gets it around 10thish I think. The reason I like the EK build over the bard is the lower cost of pearls of power, not only do you get more casts but you presumably have a bound weapon for one more and you can blow some cash on those pearls to further your one trick pony.
I think the Magus is probably the best thing going for this since they get dimension door at 10th, they're prep casters (pearls of power are cheaper... ish) and the icing on the cake is their spell recovery mechanics, especially once they improve at 11th. This coupled with the extra feats they get AND the likelihood they are more prepared to cast in combat since it's their "thing" make it all a package I have a hard time calling anything but the best for this purpose.
That's just my two copper though.
Actually a wizard of the teleportation subschool gets a dimension door like ability at level 1. They even get a decent number of uses (3 + INT bonus). RAW this is not eligible for the feat chain but I think you would be hard pressed to find a GM that would disallow it. Make them a Tiefling and they get bonus to INT and DEX and malus to CHA, all within the character concept. They can get prehensile tail - sound familiar? and can define their looks (so blue fuzzy elf with barbed tail is easy). All this at first level. If you plan to take more than 1 level of wizard, it might be worth picking up the Tiefling alternative favoured class ability for extra Dimension Doors
The difficult thing is climbing the feat chain, since you would not be eligible for Dimensional Dervish until BAB is 6 and Dimensional Savant needs 9. Your 1 level of Wizard has contributed nothing to BAB, so even Fighter or Ranger (which would give you the TWF Feats) would not be able to get Dimensional Dervish until level 7 and Dimensional Savant (IMHO The iconic ability of nightcrawler) at lvl 11. Furthermore, I can't see this character getting much out Dimensional Savant - while the bonus for flanking is nice it seems a lot of effort for not much gain (Please feel free to disagree). I think the only way to make Dimensional Savant rock is to pick up a sneak attack from somewhere, which means another class (sigh) unless they produce an archetype that gives you sneak attack. If you are going for Sneak attack it will qualify you for Arcane trickster (more Sneak attack, rogue talents and wizard spells), alternatively you could go for eldritch knight (does anyone know if arcane trickster/eldritch knight stacks with wizard for purposes of getting your favoured class ability?)
The point is at level 11 you would have a recognisable Nightcrawleer. I think the build would be MAD since you would be looking to maximise both INT (For more DD) and DEX (19 needed for GWTF unles you go for ranger, plus you will have no armour so will need to boost ac) as well as STR (for fighting) and CON (for fighting). CHA would be useful (for UMD and a wand of DD) so only WIS is a dump stat.
It would be interesting to try it out and see if it works.
EDIT: If your GM allows you take take the Dimensional feats in lieu of your Fighter Bonus Feats you can get them a level earlier. This would make 10th the lowest level you could have a full blown Nightcrawler character, as far as I can see.
Alternatively, you can take a class with 0 BAB Bonus as you would still be eligible for the feats at level 7 and 11, so another level of wizard or even rogue/Ninja for 1d6 sneak attack.
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Well, if we are looking at the movie, any one man assault on the White house would require a SLIGTLY high level. But that's my opinion. For a less casty Nightcrawler, try this:
Tiefling Ninja 6 / Horizon Walker 3 / Fighter 2 can have all the necessary feats by level 11... If The Dimensional feats are considered combat feats. Vanishing Trick is a good low level concept of disappearing one place and appearing another, just takes longer. It is also possible to take the Sanctified Rogue archetype with this ninja, because it replaces class features that the ninja has.
The Dim feats are not Combat feats. But I do like this concept as most "Nightcrawler" like.
The moral of the story here is that the dimensional dervish feats, while completely cool are entirely too hard to make a character around because you wont get to use them for a year or more in real time.
I think it would be quicker to make a tiefling ninja with the prehensile tail racial trait and reflavor vanishing trick to be a little "dimensional hop" and then presitige into Shadow Adept to get the full effect at later levels. I think there is a Tiefling variant that gets Dex and Chr for stat bumps as well. You could easily go Finese and dual wield as they are nice builds for S/A anyway.
The moral of the story here is that the dimensional dervish feats, while completely cool are entirely too hard to make a character around because you wont get to use them for a year or more in real time.
I think it would be quicker to make a tiefling ninja with the prehensile tail racial trait and reflavor vanishing trick to be a little "dimensional hop" and then presitige into Shadow Adept to get the full effect at later levels. I think there is a Tiefling variant that gets Dex and Chr for stat bumps as well. You could easily go Finese and dual wield as they are nice builds for S/A anyway.
I think it's a little bit sad that Tieflings don't start with some kind of teleport power. What's the most common SLA that fiends have? Teleportation! (Usually Greater Teleport, though some have Plane Shift too and I think there is one that has Dimension Door instead). It does not have to be a full blown Teleport power...something like the Shift power that a first level Wizard (Teleporter) gets or the Dimension Hop that a cleric with the Travel domain gets would be fine. What do they get instead? darkness 3/day. Not even a very flavoursome ability, only a small number of demons get it, while devils get fire SLAs. In fact there are any number of SLA's that are more common than darkness, summon being the second most common. being able to get Summon Monster I 1/day with the caveat that the creature summoned has to have the fiendish template (overriding alignment restrictions) would be both flavourful and not too overpowered, IMHO.
Sadly the version 3.0 Tieflings were given this power, and very little has been done to change it. Personally, i think it should be addressed.
It's my opinion that a bard wouldn't be able to access the ability enough times a day to make it the staple action I'd want it to be if my character had it. Let's face it, this is a really cool ability and you're likely to only play it once, so why not make it a great one trick pony?
The monk offers the least painful method of use for this, but it's late (12th level) and the feats hurt. He can do it a lot right away at 12 though.
A fighter/wizard/EK would be my next best guess, but he only gets it around 10thish I think. The reason I like the EK build over the bard is the lower cost of pearls of power, not only do you get more casts but you presumably have a bound weapon for one more and you can blow some cash on those pearls to further your one trick pony.
I think the Magus is probably the best thing going for this since they get dimension door at 10th, they're prep casters (pearls of power are cheaper... ish) and the icing on the cake is their spell recovery mechanics, especially once they improve at 11th. This coupled with the extra feats they get AND the likelihood they are more prepared to cast in combat since it's their "thing" make it all a package I have a hard time calling anything but the best for this purpose.
That's just my two copper though.
Actually a wizard of the teleportation subschool gets a dimension door like ability at level 1. They even get a decent number of uses (3 + INT bonus). RAW this is not eligible for the feat chain but I think you would be hard pressed to find a GM that would disallow it. Make them a Tiefling and they get bonus to INT and DEX and malus to CHA, all within the character concept. They can get prehensile tail - sound familiar? and can define their looks (so blue fuzzy elf with barbed tail is easy). All this at first level. If you plan to take more than 1 level of wizard, it might be worth picking up the Tiefling alternative favoured class ability for extra Dimension Doors
The difficult thing is climbing the feat chain,...
And guess what? Now they made SLA as a spell legal, so it is now eligible for the Feat chain RAW.