Well I did think of one amusing thing... but I don't believe it could work because it requires too many levels. Use an Arcane Archer to imbue one of his arrows with antimagic field. You can even imbue arrows with spells that normally can only target the caster, like AMF. AMF is an area spell and legal by imbue arrow's requirements. AM would become the target of the spell. AMF offers no save. AM could not spell sunder the AMF because spell sunder is a supernatural ability and AMF supresses supernatural abilities. The only real question is: does the AMF move with AM because he is the new target or does it stay static wherever he was hit by the arrow?
One of the archer's levels would have to be diviner wizard so he can act in the surprise round but with imbue arrows you can cast the spell and make the attack as a standard action. One would only have to ready the action for when AM is visible and can be targeted. I suppose the archer may still be hit by the RAGELANCEPOUNCE but at least he can't spell sunder things... I assume it would also mess him up in other ways.
I don't think I'm as rules-savvy as others here so someone else can do the math but I don't think it would work without being higher than 20th level. You'd have to be a 2nd level arcane archer (at least) who can cast AMF. Still, I thought it was an amusing thought as he couldn't spell sunder the thing that was keeping him from spell sundering it.
Aside from the high level restriction, am I missing anything that would prevent this from working? Is this an avenue worth exploring? I know it certainly won't kill AM but at least it makes him a little less scary or may even give the archer a shot at it. :P
quick question what are AM's saves ? I've seen in a few posts "oh its got a save he'll make that no problem"
Well I did think of one amusing thing... but I don't believe it could work because it requires too many levels. Use an Arcane Archer to imbue one of his arrows with antimagic field. You can even imbue arrows with spells that normally can only target the caster, like AMF. AMF is an area spell and legal by imbue arrow's requirements. AM would become the target of the spell. AMF offers no save. AM could not spell sunder the AMF because spell sunder is a supernatural ability and AMF supresses supernatural abilities. The only real question is: does the AMF move with AM because he is the new target or does it stay static wherever he was hit by the arrow?
One of the archer's levels would have to be diviner wizard so he can act in the surprise round but with imbue arrows you can cast the spell and make the attack as a standard action. One would only have to ready the action for when AM is visible and can be targeted. I suppose the archer may still be hit by the RAGELANCEPOUNCE but at least he can't spell sunder things... I assume it would also mess him up in other ways.
I don't think I'm as rules-savvy as others here so someone else can do the math but I don't think it would work without being higher than 20th level. You'd have to be a 2nd level arcane archer (at least) who can cast AMF. Still, I thought it was an amusing thought as he couldn't spell sunder the thing that was keeping him from spell sundering it.
Aside from the high level restriction, am I missing anything that would prevent this from working? Is this an avenue worth exploring? I know it certainly won't kill AM but at least it makes him a little less scary or may even give the archer a shot at it. :P
Yeah...I can see a problem with this strategy...the arrow becomes the point of emanation of the anti-magic field, yes? And you're sticking it into the guy who is coming up to your face to smack you. Again, you are the squishy caster. Who now has AM BARBARIAN in your face, emanating an anti-magic field. With you the caster in the anti-magic field. So we have, AM BARBARIAN and squishy caster, both in anti-magic field. Well done, AM BARBARI...wait.......
StuffYour argument boils down to 'whoever goes first wins'.
The part about AM is that he can lose initiative and still kill a caster reliably, and there's next to nothing they can do about it. That's a completely different paradigm then merely being able to rack up the damage numbers, which is typically pretty easy to do.
Barb's awesome damage is not exceptional. Any high level Melee can charge with a lance and do that kind of damage.
What makes AB strong is:
Good movement rate...gets via a mount. He's been dickering around with what KIND of mount, as it's a key weakness casters are trying to exploit to cut down on his mobility.
Awesome saves. Superstitious is like Grace for Paladins. Barbarian only class ability.
Immunity and/or healing from a lot of magic. barbarian abilities.
Spell Sunder. Oh, god, spell sunder. Class ability. Who needs a dispel? Pound on a prismatic sphere and BREAK IT.Saves are awesome, but can reroll most of them via Feats. It is virtually impossible to get a DC high enough that he won't auto-save.
AM Barbarian can and will lose initiative, and will still kill the caster. All these arguments have basically come down to the best thing the caster can do is RUN AWAY in 99% of cases...if he wins initiative! If he doesn't, then he's just dead.
And it has been VERY amusing that all the trite tricks trotted out to topple him do NOT work, for a very wide variety of reasons. It appears us Players don't have the same Int scores as the wizards we play.
===Aelryinth
I haven't even stated a strategy yet. But I could most likely kill AM BARBARIAN with a non-diviner wizard, especially with a henchmen.
One of the strategies a lvl 20 wizard will always employ is Clone. So the wizard is killed, he lives again because he has cloned himself and now knows his enemy. Thus making it easier to scry.Then you attack him when he isn't mounted and you kill him and his mount separately. This talk of my wizard standing in the open waiting for some barbarian to charge me at a distance is ridiculous and not likely to happen.
If AM BARBARIAN can't effectively kill me without the leadership feat, then his build is useless. He has to be able to kill me class vs. class. Wizard vs. Barbarian.
Otherwise I just assume I sneak up on him. I stand behind a rather large stone wall or obstruction with a small hole in it that prevents him from being able to charge. I cast a project image or I summon a bunch of creatures where I'm at scrying on him and send them in waves to destroy his scarab of protection. Astradaemons would be my preferred choice.
There are a lot of strategies available. And even moreso with a henchmen. So we'll see once this build is up what can be done about it from a wizardly perspective. All I know for certain is the barbarian gets his one shot, while I'll most likely get more than one at taking him out. I do have the option of bringing myself back to life.
I love how every wizard so far seems to state they can win this once they see the build for AM.
quick question what are AM's saves ? I've seen in a few posts "oh its got a save he'll make that no problem"
His saves are insane. There is a barbarian ability along with the human class favored bonus that makes his saves while raging better than a Paladin's.
But if you catch him when he's not raging, he's just as screwed as before. So if you hit him with a mage's disjunction prior to him raging, his nifty strategy will flow down the drain.
If you want numbers, I'll give you the base for the Superstition power.
+13 bonus per save.
So his saves before magic and stats would be:
+25 Fort
+19 Ref
+19 Will (+23 against enchantment spells)
It's a morale bonus so other morale bonuses don't stack with it. Then you add stats, magic items, and feats.
I deal with one of these barbarian builds at my table. It's a nightmare. But it also gives me an advantage in that I've mapped several ways to beat the build. But a lot of it requires metagame cheese, which really irritates me. I'm a bit annoyed at the Paizo designers for allowing this type of cheese into the game. It makes DMing an average party way too hard. You have this barbarian who makes ever other physical damage class seem likea weak chump. So any encounter you design to challenge the barbarian will kill every other class. That really shows poor design on the part of Paizo developers.
They spent all this time finding ways to impose limitations on fighter abilities like the two-weapon fighter version of Come and Get Me and the Mobile Fighters move and attack, while giving the barbarian far superior abilities they can get at lower level. It's pretty sad. At the moment if you're a munchkin looking to play a powerful melee class, it's barbarian or play a much weaker character. Rather irritating class design to make one physical damage dealer far and away superior to all others.
I love how every wizard so far seems to state they can win this once they see the build for AM.
Isn't that the point of the wizard? To figure out what you're facing and counter it? That's the advantage wizard's have. That's the entirety of the Caster-Martial disparity.
You have to understand I don't believe in the Caster-Martial Disparity. But I do believe a wizard if properly prepared can beat any class in the game including this barbarian build.
The reason the Caster-Martial Disparity doesn't exist is because the wizard is rarely prepared for every build. It requires knowing what he's fighting and then coming up with the spell combination to win. That's how wizard's win. It only works if they know the enemy's capabilities. Which is why we must see AM BARBARIAN's build first to figure out how to beat it. Without that advantage, then a bunch of martial characters could beat the wizard, especially a non-diviner wizard.
I would take an archer against a non-diviner wizard in many scenarios. I also have a monk/inquisitor/paladin build that would render a wizard or any caster as little more than a useless crybaby wondering why none of his spells are doing anything.
Most wizard players don't even know or understand the game mechanics well enough to know how to survive an encounter against another better player. So you could probably kill a ton of wizards in a fight against a well-played martial character.
The challenge is for AM BARBARIAN to come up with a build that now includes Leadership that a wizard can't beat. Until the build is complete and the wizard players can see what their up against, then the main advantage of the wizard is eliminated. This is the whole point of the discussion.
This is why i think that everyone who thinks they can outdo AM should make their builds while Trinam finishes AM and then we can see with no one building around the theory of countering whats listed on the Character Sheet of the other.
I think an RP approach would work best in this case.
why challenge AM in a standup fight when you can send a cheating assassin to murder him in his sleep.
how does he find AM, same way any good assassin would no magic required
how does he sneak up and murder him in his sleep ? same way any good assassin would.
SO WHO WANT RUN PBP FOR EPIC PARTY OF AMS?
If will have AM HOLYVINDICATOR, Then AM in! Party full of RAGELANCEPOUNCE, CHALLENGELANCEPOUNCE, MUTAGANSNEAKLANCEPOUNCE AM LOVING IT WHEN AM HOLY VINDICATOR AM GIVING +5 TO ALL POUNCE ATTACK AND AC.
NOT SURE IF AM CAN POUNCE YET. BUT AM CAN RAGE FROM DOMAIN AND AM DAMN BIG STR SCORE ON ACCOUNT OF GRAMMA SLEEPING WITH POWERFUL ORC CASTY SO AM HAVE ORC ELDRITCH BLOODLINE. AM HAVE KILL CASTY GRANPA SINCE NOT CALL GRANMA BACK. AM DO BIG HIT WHILE MAKE AM PARTY MORE AWESOME. AM HIT SO HARD CASTYS GO BLIND AND DEAD AT ONCE. AM EVEN HAVE COOLEST GOD, AM PRETTY SURE GOD AM BARBARIAN AS WELL, SO IF AM PARTY WANNA SMASH CASTY JUST CAUSE AM CAN, AM GOD IS COOL WITH IT. EVEN HELP SMASH BETTER. BEST PART IS AM HOLY VINDICATOR CAN WAKE UP BUDDIES IF AM DEAD SINCE AM BARBARIAN CAN'T PUNCH DEATH OUT OF BUDDIES YET. THAT BE IN NEXT BOOK AM SURE.
I think an RP approach would work best in this case.
why challenge AM in a standup fight when you can send a cheating assassin to murder him in his sleep.
how does he find AM, same way any good assassin would no magic required
how does he sneak up and murder him in his sleep ? same way any good assassin would.
Remeber he is sleeping at least 100ft in the air moving quite fast
Remeber he is sleeping at least 100ft in the air moving quite fastI think an RP approach would work best in this case.
why challenge AM in a standup fight when you can send a cheating assassin to murder him in his sleep.
how does he find AM, same way any good assassin would no magic required
how does he sneak up and murder him in his sleep ? same way any good assassin would.
Indeed very predictable, just how assassins like their targets.
Yes, I have. If I'm using wish it puts me in right where I want to be relative to AM. If the GM rules that my wish won't work that way, I'll just teleport in in what I guess is the right direction. If I guess wrong, I'll either teleport a little ways and ambush him (if I'm near enough), or I'll teleport home and try again later. I've got lots of time.stuffThe point you're missing here, spot, is that you have not found a way to account for AM's constant movement. You can find his location, sure. But in the time you spend doing that, and then cast the next spell to get to that location, he's moved a quarter mile away. THAT is the problem.
Not exactly, your wish could very well put you right in the path of AM as he is in the middle of a RAGELANCEPOUNCE on another casty, in which case if I'm a truely evil DM, AM gets a two-for.
Your plan assumes fairness on another person's part.
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Yes, I have. If I'm using wish it puts me in right where I want to be relative to AM. If the GM rules that my wish won't work that way, I'll just teleport in in what I guess is the right direction. If I guess wrong, I'll either teleport a little ways and ambush him (if I'm near enough), or I'll teleport home and try again later. I've got lots of time.stuffThe point you're missing here, spot, is that you have not found a way to account for AM's constant movement. You can find his location, sure. But in the time you spend doing that, and then cast the next spell to get to that location, he's moved a quarter mile away. THAT is the problem.Not exactly, your wish could very well put you right in the path of AM as he is in the middle of a RAGELANCEPOUNCE on another casty, in which case if I'm a truely evil DM, AM gets a two-for.
Your plan assumes fairness on another person's part.
Yes, it does. That's an integral element of a game. And, as I've already said before, if the GM wants to rule otherwise, he can. We're in GM fiat territory with that one.
Oh, and AM can't do anything more than a trample or overrun to me on the way by (and possibly not even that); he's charging someone else. Unless you buy into (I don't) the argument that a charge is an instantaneous action that can't be interrupted, in which case I'd either arrive before he charged someone else, and we'd have a surprise round just like I planned, or after he charges someone, and I'd still get to quicken WoE him. Yeah, it's a gray area. Just like many things in this thread.
As the voice of AM CAVALIER, I would like to put together a build that would include the CHALLENGELANCEPOUNCE but I know nothing about Cavaliers so I'll have to do some research first. But count him in, he's busy crying about how he is basically just a fighter with lamer bonus feats.
Not exactly, your wish could very well put you right in the path of AM as he is in the middle of a RAGELANCEPOUNCE on another casty, in which case if I'm a truely evil DM, AM gets a two-for.
Your plan assumes fairness on another person's part.
Yes, it does. That's an integral element of a game. And, as I've already said before, if the GM wants to rule otherwise, he can. We're in GM fiat territory with that one.
Oh, and AM can't do anything more than a trample or overrun to me on the way by (and possibly not even that); he's charging someone else. Unless you buy into (I don't) the argument that a charge is an instantaneous action that can't be interrupted, in which case I'd either arrive before he charged someone else, and we'd have a surprise round just like I planned, or after he charges someone, and I'd still get to quicken WoE him. Yeah, it's a gray area. Just like many things in this thread.
I'm running at Person A. You teleport into the middle of the path of my run towards Person A. I'm in the middle of my action and it is therefore not your turn so you CANNOT act. You, being the intervening terrain between myself and Person A gets ran into instead. If I am AM BARBARIAN, this means you get RAGELANCEPOUNCED and then I keep going due to Ride-by Attack until I reach my target. My target doesn't get RAGELANCEPOUNCED, but now he's only 5 feet away from me. Now, you might ask, why don't I get an AoO? Because you are flat footed for showing up in the middle of combat and you can't take AoO if you are flat-footed so no Quicked WoE or anything. You show up, you get RAGELANCEPOUNCED, other casty craps his pants.
Again, I said something about an Evil GM who would make it so you showed up in front of him as he was charging someone else. Perhaps, AM worded his charge as "AM CHARGING NEAREST CASTY" at which point would be you when you teleport in. There is an Order of the Stick comic that would better explain this but it's not on the website. Basically, the party all decides their actions but based on initiative end up attacking each other because of how their attacks are worded.
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Not exactly, your wish could very well put you right in the path of AM as he is in the middle of a RAGELANCEPOUNCE on another casty, in which case if I'm a truely evil DM, AM gets a two-for.
Your plan assumes fairness on another person's part.
Yes, it does. That's an integral element of a game. And, as I've already said before, if the GM wants to rule otherwise, he can. We're in GM fiat territory with that one.
Oh, and AM can't do anything more than a trample or overrun to me on the way by (and possibly not even that); he's charging someone else. Unless you buy into (I don't) the argument that a charge is an instantaneous action that can't be interrupted, in which case I'd either arrive before he charged someone else, and we'd have a surprise round just like I planned, or after he charges someone, and I'd still get to quicken WoE him. Yeah, it's a gray area. Just like many things in this thread.
I'm running at Person A. You teleport into the middle of the path of my run towards Person A. I'm in the middle of my action and it is therefore not your turn so you CANNOT act. You, being the intervening terrain between myself and Person A gets ran into instead. If I am AM BARBARIAN, this means you get RAGELANCEPOUNCED and then I keep going due to Ride-by Attack until I reach my target. My target doesn't get RAGELANCEPOUNCED, but now he's only 5 feet away from me. Now, you might ask, why don't I get an AoO? Because you are flat footed for showing up in the middle of combat and you can't take AoO if you are flat-footed so no Quicked WoE or anything. You show up, you get RAGELANCEPOUNCED, other casty craps his pants.
Again, I said something about an Evil GM who would make it so you showed up in front of him as he was charging someone else. Perhaps, AM worded his charge as "AM CHARGING NEAREST CASTY" at which point would be you when you teleport in. There is an Order of the Stick comic that would better explain this but it's...
No. Flat-out no. AM can't change his action in the middle of a charge. And he can't declare a charge that way, and you know it. He's charging someone else; the best he can do is a trample or overrun. Also, if I'm teleporting in, it's my turn. So he can't charge during my turn. Further, if he's charging, I can argue that since he didn't declare the overrun/trample, he has to stop when he gets to me. There's no way your argument makes any sense at all, unless your GM arbitrarily decides that it's going to work that way...and we've already agreed that GM fiat can kill a character.
EDIT: Oh, another thing: how many 20th-level casters are there, anyway, for me to be walking into the middle of a fight every time I teleport? I can understand AM being everywhere, that's just a function of his awesomeness. But there simply aren't that many casters in the world (yeah, yeah; because AM has already RAGELANCEPOUNCED them all).
I think the way you defeat AM BARBARIAN is by talking to him, getting to know him, sharing hobbies and activities. Eventually you and AM BARBARIAN build a friendship based on mutual respect and shared interests and you no longer have to live in fear of LANCERAGEPOUNCE turning you into a thick red mist.
Beneath that terrifying exterior is a beautiful garden, people talk about AM's Chuck Norris like fury and his Adamantite like skin but do they talk about how he overcame the lack of literacy to graduate in the top 10% of his engineering class, or the details of his friendship with BATTY BAT.
Honestly, making a friend of AM BARBARIAN is probably more rewarding than merely defeating him, and more interesting.
I love how every wizard so far seems to state they can win this once they see the build for AM.
I love how AM claiming to not be an observed state without actually being observed.
He's like an internet sex guru that learned everything he needed to on the topic from watching porn (no offense to you Trinam) until it's proven he exists.
I'm mean theoretically the wizard has every spell prepared and AM will run out of rage before the wizard runs out of delaying spells.
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AM WIZARD uses diviner special ability to teleport away in surprise round and then make a nice pot of tea. AM WIZARD too old for this fighting crap. That why AM WIZARD have AM FIGHTER around. But AM FIGHTER boring and stupid so AM WIZARD makes new friends like AM GOLEM and AM TEAPOT THAT MAKES TEA WHILE AM WIZARD READS BOOKS.
AM WIZARD uses diviner special ability to teleport away in surprise round and then make a nice pot of tea. AM WIZARD too old for this fighting crap. That why AM WIZARD have AM FIGHTER around. But AM FIGHTER boring and stupid so AM WIZARD makes new friends like AM GOLEM and AM TEAPOT THAT MAKES TEA WHILE AM WIZARD READS BOOKS.
AM WIZARD does not exist. AM CASTY is an oxymoron. That's like saying Dimunitive Terrasque.
Hmm...I just thought of a couple of questions: what's AM doing in the 17 1/2 hours each day when he's flying but doesn't have his spell turning up? And how does he get the ring to turn on when the caster shows up unexpectedly and wins initiative?
-Generally flying really freaking fast.
-Why bother? There's not really a way the casty can teleport on top of him anyways due to the sillydiculous speeds involved.
I love how every wizard so far seems to state they can win this once they see the build for AM.I love how AM claiming to not be an observed state without actually being observed.
He's like an internet sex guru that learned everything he needed to on the topic from watching porn (no offense to you Trinam) until it's proven he exists.
I'm mean theoretically the wizard has every spell prepared and AM will run out of rage before the wizard runs out of delaying spells.
(None taken.)
Half the fun of the AM debate is getting to make casty players sputter the way martials used to about how they would 'totally take this hypothetical barbarian by doing this highly specific thing.'
Which, for the record, means that if we're keeping track I win because that means castys are martials and BARBARIAN is the casty. I've put the same work into it as the caster players of old (Which is to say, made a passing effort at feat/rage power selection (Actually this might be more work than some caster players of old)), the only difference is AM speaks in allcaps.
That's kind of what I thought -- he's basically a more polite internet troll form. Theoretically it could exist, but in practice not hardly.
Personally I'm not too worried about until people start taking AM too seriously, then he starts to bug me as much as the old 'martial vs. caster' threads.
All caps builds are damage dealers, sadly most castys aren't all about SPELLCOMBATINTENSIFIEDEMPOWEREDMAXIMISEDQUICKENEDDAZINGSHOCKINGGRASPKUKRICR ITATTACK but since AM has appeared i've been quite intrigued by magus tin can with a trick spell combo for damage.
If you can get an AC and CMD with decent fort and will saves you can make a handy tank, the only problem i've noted with high defense builds is lack of attack, being able to nova with spell combat could be funny. I'm still working on the CMD issue though, gotta fix getting sundered.
That's kind of what I thought -- he's basically a more polite internet troll form. Theoretically it could exist, but in practice not hardly.
Personally I'm not too worried about until people start taking AM too seriously, then he starts to bug me as much as the old 'martial vs. caster' threads.
In practice your GM would probably murder you if you put this guy in his campaign.
Not your character, you.
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Hmm...I just thought of a couple of questions: what's AM doing in the 17 1/2 hours each day when he's flying but doesn't have his spell turning up? And how does he get the ring to turn on when the caster shows up unexpectedly and wins initiative?-Generally flying really freaking fast.
-Why bother? There's not really a way the casty can teleport on top of him anyways due to the sillydiculous speeds involved.
Yes, there is. It may take a few tries, but the caster can teleport in near where he expects AM to be. Eventually he's going to guess right as to which way AM goes. If he fails, he just teleports home and tries again later.
Your argument assumes that AM is always double moving, and the caster can't do basic math to figure out how far AM will get between the discern location and the (quickened if necessary)teleport....and if the caster goes that route, then NO TIME PASSES. He can teleport in right where he wants to.
If the caster goes that route he's just effectively used his standard (to finish the spell) and his swift (To teleport) for the turn.
Being in front of a barbarian with a move action to your name seems unwise.
Your argument assumes that AM is always double moving, and the caster can't do basic math to figure out how far AM will get between the discern location and the (quickened if necessary)teleport....and if the caster goes that route, then NO TIME PASSES. He can teleport in right where he wants to.
Trinam is in fact being generous. With the general immunity to fatigue the mount can have it's possible for him to actually be running.
Think on that for a moment. He may only slow down long enough to spear a casty. Or someone who looks like a casty. Hard to tell at times as he never gives them the time to prove otherwise. It's led to some embarassing encounters with AM MONK stepping out of his house with tea in hand in a bathrobe.
That's kind of what I thought -- he's basically a more polite internet troll form. Theoretically it could exist, but in practice not hardly.
Personally I'm not too worried about until people start taking AM too seriously, then he starts to bug me as much as the old 'martial vs. caster' threads.
In practice your GM would probably murder you if you put this guy in his campaign.
Not your character, you.
He would have to exist first -- besides if they've not tried to murder me for what I have done to date bringing AM out would be a very minor thing.
He would have to exist first -- besides if they've not tried to murder me for what I have done to date bringing AM out would be a very minor thing.That's kind of what I thought -- he's basically a more polite internet troll form. Theoretically it could exist, but in practice not hardly.
Personally I'm not too worried about until people start taking AM too seriously, then he starts to bug me as much as the old 'martial vs. caster' threads.
In practice your GM would probably murder you if you put this guy in his campaign.
Not your character, you.
AM BARBARIAN is just as real as Schroedinger's Wizard. Probably even more so since AM is an actual attainable character.
If the caster goes that route he's just effectively used his standard (to finish the spell) and his swift (To teleport) for the turn.
Being in front of a barbarian with a move action to your name seems unwise.
This is why my plan is the most effective, when I appear next to AM BARBARIAN without actions AM wants to know if I want to go grab lunch at this cool little Gnomish restaurant AM flew over a while back, and a friendship with AM BARBARIAN is more valuable than the rewards of defeating AM BARBARIAN.
This is why my plan is the most effective, when I appear next to AM BARBARIAN without actions AM wants to know if I want to go grab lunch at this cool little Gnomish restaurant AM flew over a while back, and a friendship with AM BARBARIAN is more valuable than the rewards of defeating AM BARBARIAN.If the caster goes that route he's just effectively used his standard (to finish the spell) and his swift (To teleport) for the turn.
Being in front of a barbarian with a move action to your name seems unwise.
This could work. Please make sure that you don't spend more than 50 seconds talking at a time, at least until he's having notable amounts of fun.
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If the caster goes that route he's just effectively used his standard (to finish the spell) and his swift (To teleport) for the turn.
Being in front of a barbarian with a move action to your name seems unwise.
I disagree with your assessment. The first teleport happens outside of combat, so it doesn't count against my turn.
...okay, I halfway disagree. Being in front of AM with only a move action WOULD be unwise.
Teleport, craft phylactery, watch enemies be turned to dust by time, be killed by the first level adventurers who plunder my tower 1000 years later.
Still, I beat my enemies by using the greatest weapon...time.
Sounds like a failure to reach diefic apotheosis to me.
If the caster goes that route he's just effectively used his standard (to finish the spell) and his swift (To teleport) for the turn.
Being in front of a barbarian with a move action to your name seems unwise.
I disagree with your assessment. The first teleport happens outside of combat, so it doesn't count against my turn.
...okay, I halfway disagree. Being in front of AM with only a move action WOULD be unwise.
By that logic, the first charge that occurred while outside of your range happens outside of combat from being declared outside of combat, and so wouldn't take up AM's turn. I'm under the impression that doing something with intent to murder is entering surprise round.
Though that would be hilarious. AM is officially faster than spider-sense.
AM BARBARIAN is just as real as Schroedinger's Wizard. Probably even more so since AM is an actual attainable character.
You seemed to miss it so I'll repost -- I'm nice that way:
Talonhawke wrote:I love how every wizard so far seems to state they can win this once they see the build for AM.
I love how AM claiming to not be an observed state without actually being observed.
He's like an internet sex guru that learned everything he needed to on the topic from watching porn (no offense to you Trinam) until it's proven he exists.
I'm mean theoretically the wizard has every spell prepared and AM will run out of rage before the wizard runs out of delaying spells.
so in summation yes he is exactly like Schroedinger's Wizard -- meaning neither actually exist.
You'll notice that Trinam has already admitted as much himself when he responded to me.
Show me the build, and you might have a convert but just as I told the Scientologist I'm not changing religions or sending money until I see some results first.
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In practice your GM would probably murder you if you put this guy in his campaign.
Not your character, you.
Of course, the GM could always just throw an old fashioned dungeon crawl, where AM isn't able to ride BATTY BAT, which to the best of my understanding of the character, makes him a much more sane/manageable character.
so in summation yes he is exactly like Schroedinger's Wizard -- meaning neither actually exist.
You'll notice that Trinam has already admitted as much himself when he responded to me.
Show me the build, and you might have a convert but just as I told the Scientologist I'm not changing religions or sending money until I see some results first.
Ayesir, and the build will exist after I finish gearing the darn thing.
It's not my fault I made some kind of stupidly complex thing with a huge amount of wealth to spend. (OK it totally is)
But before that I want to finish BARBARIAN GUIDE.
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Sounds like a failure to reach diefic apotheosis to me.Teleport, craft phylactery, watch enemies be turned to dust by time, be killed by the first level adventurers who plunder my tower 1000 years later.
Still, I beat my enemies by using the greatest weapon...time.
Like most wizards who become liches I am a small, petty man.
Of course, the GM could always just throw an old fashioned dungeon crawl, where AM isn't able to ride BATTY BAT, which to the best of my understanding of the character, makes him a much more sane/manageable character.In practice your GM would probably murder you if you put this guy in his campaign.
Not your character, you.
His response is 'figure out the load-bearing points of the dungeon, sunder them, collapse the whole thing and mop up whatever's left.'
Dude's an engineer.
so in summation yes he is exactly like Schroedinger's Wizard -- meaning neither actually exist.You'll notice that Trinam has already admitted as much himself when he responded to me.
Show me the build, and you might have a convert but just as I told the Scientologist I'm not changing religions or sending money until I see some results first.
I don't know how much attention you paid to the CMD thread, but just like this thread, most of the debate involves how spells work, very little debate is ever about AmBarb's build.
Could AM BARBARIAN sunder the friendship (it's my understanding friendship is = to magic so it should be a valid target) between AM FIGHTER and AM CASTY? If AM BARBARIAN could get the fighter alone I mean.
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According to My Little Pony, friendship is magic, so he could.
The only thing is, we'd have to determine the caster level of friendship.
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I don't know how much attention you paid to the CMD thread, but just like this thread, most of the debate involves how spells work, very little debate is ever about AmBarb's build.
so in summation yes he is exactly like Schroedinger's Wizard -- meaning neither actually exist.You'll notice that Trinam has already admitted as much himself when he responded to me.
Show me the build, and you might have a convert but just as I told the Scientologist I'm not changing religions or sending money until I see some results first.
That's more-or-less because the only really debatable point of AM's build is whether he can leave and re-enter rage multiple times in a round. Since you can load multiple arrows, or multiple crossbow bolts with Rapid Reload, one would tend to believe that he can.