Hi guys,
Just asking your opinion about the beneficts of Planar Wild Shape.
Don't you think it's too much?
Hi guys,
Just asking your opinion about the beneficts of Planar Wild Shape.
Don't you think it's too much?
Nope seems ok to me, why what is troubling you about it ?
It really is a very powerful option. I'm sort of amazed people don't talk about it more. I mean, 5 skill points and a feat for DR, Energy Resistances, and SMITE? I wouldn't say it is "too much," if only because it still isn't going to bring a druid up to the level of some of the more obscene builds out there (why, hello ragelancepounce Barbarian and rapidmanyflurryshot Sohei! How are you today?). But it is absolutely more powerful than most other feats, and bringing it down a little wouldn't hurt things. A HD cap or penalty would help bring it in to line with other options.
It really is a very powerful option. I'm sort of amazed people don't talk about it more. I mean, 5 skill points and a feat for DR, Energy Resistances, and SMITE? I wouldn't say it is "too much," if only because it still isn't going to bring a druid up to the level of some of the more obscene builds out there (why, hello ragelancepounce Barbarian and rapidmanyflurryshot Sohei! How are you today?). But it is absolutely more powerful than most other feats, and bringing it down a little wouldn't hurt things. A HD cap or penalty would help bring it in to line with other options.
Rapidmanyflurryshot Sohei? Don't think I've seen that build yet. Can you give a reference if there is one on this board?
I would like to see this build as well. I'm fairly certain you can't Rapid Shot with a flurry of blows.
It's kind of a weird distinction. Regular flurry works like twf and has no restrictions on ranged iirc, but the Zen Archer's flurry specifically calls out rapid/many and says it doesn't work. Sohei is regular flurry so I guess by RAW it works. Weird. I'd still like to see a build
Rapidmanyflurryshot Sohei? Don't think I've seen that build yet. Can you give a reference if there is one on this board?
I can't find the exact thread... it was one of the ones about whether or not Sohei's can flurry in armor. It isn't some amazing, complicated build or anything. Just abusing the fact that Sohei doesn't call out not being able to use Rapid/Manyshot like the Zen Archer. Getting off 7 arrows at level 6 is ridiculous, and it only gets worse from there. Mix in some fighter for feats, or samurai for challenges, and you are getting into "kill the dragon in one round" territory.
Rapidmanyflurryshot Sohei? Don't think I've seen that build yet. Can you give a reference if there is one on this board?I can't find the exact thread... it was one of the ones about whether or not Sohei's can flurry in armor. It isn't some amazing, complicated build or anything. Just abusing the fact that Sohei doesn't call out not being able to use Rapid/Manyshot like the Zen Archer. Getting off 7 arrows at level 6 is ridiculous, and it only gets worse from there. Mix in some fighter for feats, or samurai for challenges, and you are getting into "kill the dragon in one round" territory.
True but Paladins, and to a lesser extent, Rangers have been able to that with their bows for a while now.
True but Paladins, and to a lesser extent, Rangers have been able to that with their bows for a while now.
Indeed. The advantage is that, thanks to ki and flurry, you are getting off at least 1, if not 2 or 3 more shots than a Paladin or Ranger ever could. Also, thanks to it being Weapon Training, you can grab Gloves of Dueling to go with your Bracers of Archery. And, since you there is no real reason to stick with it after 8 (at the latest), you can just hop over to one of those other classes and get a good chunk of their tricks too.
It is kind of a really, really deep dip that serves to make dedicated archery even grosser than it was before. Sort of an AAA+ choice, instead of a meager AAA.
I think it is a bit silly as a feat, still I consider allowing it but without the smite ability. The DR, SR and Resistances are enough, if not too much.
considering its limited to animals forms ... meh
considering its limited to animals forms ... meh
This is sort of like arguing guns aren't that useful, because they are limited to shooting bullets. Animal forms have better damage output and more special abilities than elemental forms, especially when you add the templates (plant forms need not apply). Leopard and Dire Tiger will be getting A LOT more out of a smite than a Elder Elemental. Plus, one of the biggest draws of elemental forms are their defenses, especially DR 5/- at IV. But by the time you get to EB IV, Planar Wildshape gives you DR10 and hefty resistances. So instead of being an offensive/defensive tradeoff, it makes animal forms pretty much a given against anything that doesn't have an opposite alignment subtype. For a neutral druid, only actively picking the wrong template will let anything through your DR.
And, if you come into a situation where going elemental is better (weird environments that help you, need for sneak attack immunity or extra CON), you still have that option. While, again, I'm not sure it is game-breaking, it is definitely top tier.
In my opinion some of the last feats released in UC are totally wrong and Planar Wild Shape is one of them.
I disagree with this feat even when I have a druid, because just with a feat without important prerequisite you get a significant change in your character.
With this feat nobody is going to use elemental form, it's worst than wild shape + PWS. At 11th level you get RD 10, RE 15, SR 15, Darkvision and if you use smite evil you get a really good +11 dmg vs evil oponents.
And if this is not enough you also get a wonderful +2 to confirm critical hits.
Sorry people from paizo but you did a big mistake with this feat and it's not fair to other PC considering that the druid it's one of the best PC.
considering its limited to animals forms ... mehThis is sort of like arguing guns aren't that useful, because they are limited to shooting bullets. Animal forms have better damage output and more special abilities than elemental forms, especially when you add the templates (plant forms need not apply). Leopard and Dire Tiger will be getting A LOT more out of a smite than a Elder Elemental. Plus, one of the biggest draws of elemental forms are their defenses, especially DR 5/- at IV. But by the time you get to EB IV, Planar Wildshape gives you DR10 and hefty resistances. So instead of being an offensive/defensive tradeoff, it makes animal forms pretty much a given against anything that doesn't have an opposite alignment subtype. For a neutral druid, only actively picking the wrong template will let anything through your DR.
And, if you come into a situation where going elemental is better (weird environments that help you, need for sneak attack immunity or extra CON), you still have that option. While, again, I'm not sure it is game-breaking, it is definitely top tier.
Think of that beautiful, beautiful deinonychus stat block. 5 attacks with pouncesmite? Yes please.
considering its limited to animals forms ... mehThis is sort of like arguing guns aren't that useful, because they are limited to shooting bullets. Animal forms have better damage output and more special abilities than elemental forms, especially when you add the templates (plant forms need not apply). Leopard and Dire Tiger will be getting A LOT more out of a smite than a Elder Elemental. Plus, one of the biggest draws of elemental forms are their defenses, especially DR 5/- at IV. But by the time you get to EB IV, Planar Wildshape gives you DR10 and hefty resistances. So instead of being an offensive/defensive tradeoff, it makes animal forms pretty much a given against anything that doesn't have an opposite alignment subtype. For a neutral druid, only actively picking the wrong template will let anything through your DR.
And, if you come into a situation where going elemental is better (weird environments that help you, need for sneak attack immunity or extra CON), you still have that option. While, again, I'm not sure it is game-breaking, it is definitely top tier.
DR5/- vs DR10/evil , I'll take the DR5/- thanks ;) waaay too many evil things coming at you at those later levels making your DR10/evil worth not a whole lot.
SR5+level is pretty shabby against a caster of your level he only needs to roll 6+ on a d20 assuming no spell pen feats. against a higher CR caster like a BBEG with a caster level above your level, it won't help.
as for the smite it helps keep a wildshaper relevant in those later levels once you max out wildshape at 12th level.
I still haven't seen anything in this thread that shows this is anything close to overpowered
It's powerful yes but not too much powerful.
Considering the attack bonus is still tied to your charisma(a optimizer's dumb stat if I ever saw one), I would not be too worried.
Like they had much trouble hitting anyway, a druid never was weak in combat to begin with in addition to being a full spellcaster.
Now a 12th lvl druid against evil foes gets +12 damage vs evil foes, 15 acid, cold and electricity resist, SR 17, DR 10/evil, darkvision 60' a +2 bonus to confirm crits against evil foes.. and possibly a bonus on attack rolls equal to their charisma modifier. The attacks a druid makes in animal form are at their full BAB anyway.
* I did wonder for a while wether the intention was just to be able to assume the form of a celestial dire lion for example, but not actually receive the templates benefits directly:
You would gain darkvision, a +2 bonus to confirm crits against evil foes.
Ofcourse then it would be too weak, it would be worthwhile if able to use beatsshape IV for some additional energy resistances, but druids never get that. As is I think paizo did a poor job on it, the smite is too much if it is removed I might actually get with it, it might be nice seeing some animals shapes instead of elementals at higher levels.
Hmmm... so would you be limited to one smite per day, or 1 smite per use of wild shape?