I've enjoyed countless hours of reading these and other boards. As such I've come upon couple of questions that I really can't phantom an answer for.
The one I bring to the community is this: What good is a elf race for as a player?
The Elf has tons of fluff, a massive amount of history, yet as far as it goes for creating a character the Elf seems to fall short.
Humans seem to dominate the field in almost every class as far as optimization. Half Elves seem to only come to play for Archer builds.
What class does an elf excel at, and how does one build such a character that a human could not do better?
Thanks in advance for you input to this conundrum of mine.
I've enjoyed countless hours of reading these and other boards. As such I've come upon couple of questions that I really can't phantom an answer for.
The one I bring to the community is this: What good is a elf race for as a player?
The Elf has tons of fluff, a massive amount of history, yet as far as it goes for creating a character the Elf seems to fall short.
Humans seem to dominate the field in almost every class as far as optimization. Half Elves seem to only come to play for Archer builds.
What class does an elf excel at, and how does one build such a character that a human could not do better?
Thanks in advance for you input to this conundrum of mine.
Mage, Rogue, anything else dex and/or int based.
Any class that uses Int and doesn't mind having Dex. Which is to say, any class that uses Int. Wizards, Witches, Wizards, and Alchemists come to mind. I listed Wizards twice because they're awesome Wizards.
Not everyone builds characters around complete optimization. You can create a more than competent character using any class/race combo.
Str 10, Dex 20, Con 10, Int 18, Wis 11, Cha 10
HP: 35; AC: 20; Touch: 15; Flat Footed: 15
Fort +4; Ref +8; Will +3 (+2 vs Enchantments); Initiative +4 (+6 in forests)
+1 Long Bow: +9/+9 1d8+1
Mithral Rapier: +9 1d6 18-20/X2
Mithral Kukri: +9 1d4 18-20/X2
+1 Shadowed Mithral Chain Shirt: +5 AC, +6 Max Dex, 0 ACP; 10% ASF; +5 Stealth
Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2
Feats: Rapid Shot, Endurance, Scribe Scroll, Weapon Finesse, Two Weapon Fighting, Breadth of Experience
Skills: Acrobatics +11, Climb +9, Handle Animal +5, Knowledge (all others) +10, Knowledge (Geography) +10 (+12 in forsets), Knowledge (History) +15, Perception +11 (+13 in forests), Profession (any) +2, Ride +14, Spell Craft +13 (+15 to identify magic items), Stealth +19 (+21 in forests), Survival +9 (+11 following tracks, +11 in forests, +13 following tracks in forests), Swim +9
Special Features: Favored Enemy (Evil Outsider +4, Undead+2), Track (+2), Wild Empathy (+5), Archery Combat Style, Favored Terrain (Forest +2), Hunter's Bond (Wolf), Create Gear (1 lb) 7/day, Familiar (Raven), Forbidden Schools (Evocation, Necromancy), Skirmisher (Suprise Shift) 2/day)
Spells Known
level-0: All
Level-1: Mage Armor, Unseen Servant, Animate Rope, Silent Image, Jump, Expeditious Retreat, Gravity Bow
Spells Prepared
Wizard-0: Detect Magic, Mending, Prestidigitation
Wizard-1: Unseen Servent, Gravity Bow, Expeditious Retreat
Any class that uses Int and doesn't mind having Dex. Which is to say, any class that uses Int. Wizards, Witches, Wizards, and Alchemists come to mind. I listed Wizards twice because they're awesome Wizards.
Are the better wizards than a human?
Would they make a good Magus?
What about a Eldritch Knight (compared to the Magus) probably not.
Any class that uses Int and doesn't mind having Dex. Which is to say, any class that uses Int. Wizards, Witches, Wizards, and Alchemists come to mind. I listed Wizards twice because they're awesome Wizards.Are the better wizards than a human?
Would they make a good Magus?
What about a Eldritch Knight (compared to the Magus) probably not.
I would say Yes on all counts, but I'm bias.
If you ever plan on casting a spell that is affected by Spell Resistance, they are a great choice. If it weren't for the stupidly overpowered human racial favored class alternatives, they'd be the best choice hands down.
Does anybody else predict an impending race war in this thread?
Does anybody else predict an impending race war in this thread?
Is that because Elves PWN!?!?
I would like to point out that I do not allow the alternate favored class benefits. It makes humans a lot more balanced.
IMO Elves make better Wizards than Humans do. Dex > Con because Con is more easily "faked":
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Why you need Con: HP and Fort saves. Take Toughness, Great Fortitude, and favored class to HP.
Why you need Dex: AC, Ref, CMD, Initiative, ranged attacks, bunch of skills. Just go with a higher Dex in the first place.
====
I'd still keep them both at or above 12 on every single character I ever make though.
At any rate, Elves also get bonus to Spellcraft, pseudo Spell Penetration, free weapons, and a boost to Perception. Humans are good, but not always best.
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If your Magus is a Dexy Dervish Dancer, then Elf makes for an awesome Magus.
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Does anybody else predict an impending race war in this thread?Is that because Elves PWN!?!?
More because people who like them and people who hate them will be attracted to this thread like ants to sugar, and shall not be polite.
To prepare for this eventuality, I shalt roll initiative.
...B%!%#@%s. *Prepares for A brutal fraka*
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The one I bring to the community is this: What good is a elf race for as a player?The Elf has tons of fluff, a massive amount of history
You answered your own question here. Not everyone is in it for just the powergaming. Some like flavour. In fact, they will choose flavour over something that is the absolute very best.
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OMG, dude, Elves are great for LOTS of characters!
Want an effiminate PC?
. . . . Elf!
Want to play an arrogant, self-righteous, effete snob?
. . . . Elf is the answer.
How 'bout a PC who thinks that living to be a million years old and yet having a naturally weak CON score makes sense?
. . . . You know the Race to play.
All in all, Elves are a great choice for anyone who wants to play a member of a race full of whiney, good-for-nothing, think-they-created-magic, pretend they're better than everyone else cuz they remember Sauron when he was here last but were too pathetic to really stop him and now crying for humans and dwarves (Real races) to save their lame-ass selves and now, 1000 years later are begging for help again all the while being dicks cuz they remember from last time even though no one else gives a damn.
That's the Elf.
Does anybody else predict an impending race war in this thread?Is that because Elves PWN!?!?More because people who like them and people who hate them will be attracted to this thread like ants to sugar, and shall not be polite.
To prepare for this eventuality, I shalt roll initiative.
1d20
...B+$**+*s.
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My favoritest elf ever is a handsome bastard by the name of Dashel or "dash."
ELF BARBARIAN!
15 point buy (because it was for an AP, not PFS)
and I came in to the adventure late, so we were level 3
STR 13
DEX 16
CON 13
INT 12
WIS 8
CHA 12
FEATS!
Fleet x2
SKILLS!
Acrobatics +9
Climb +7
Swim +11
Perception +7
Intimidate +7
RAGE!
9 rounds of rage/day
Swift Foot rage power
Spirit of the Waves racial trait
and alternate favored class feature for +3 move speed (no effect until lvl 5)
Sooo... you can see where I'm going with this.
55' move speed while raging :)
He was very fun.
Why do I always roll natural 1s on Initiative, even for this?! Oh well, I got a 10 because my Wizard has a +9 on Init: +4 Imp Int, +2 Reactionary, +3 Dex.
Elves also make good archery focused combat characters. The Lightbringer alternate trait makes them immune to dazzling and blinding light based effects. It also allows them to use Light at will as a Spell Like Ability as long as they don't dump Int to a 7 at character creation. Only for non casters though because that also replaces fake Spell Penetration and bonus to Spellcraft.
You don't? What, does someone think that this is some kind of .... roleplaying game?Not everyone builds characters around complete optimization. You can create a more than competent character using any class/race combo.
** spoiler omitted **
Shennanigans!!!
OMG, dude, Elves are great for LOTS of characters!
Want an effiminate PC?
. . . . Elf!Want to play an arrogant, self-righteous, effete snob?
. . . . Elf is the answer.How 'bout a PC who thinks that living to be a million years old and yet having a naturally weak CON score makes sense?
. . . . You know the Race to play.All in all, Elves are a great choice for anyone who wants to play a member of a race full of whiney, good-for-nothing, think-they-created-magic, pretend they're better than everyone else cuz they remember Sauron when he was here last but were too pathetic to really stop him and now crying for humans and dwarves (Real races) to save their lame-ass selves and now, 1000 years later are begging for help again all the while being dicks cuz they remember from last time even though no one else gives a damn.
That's the Elf.
And this is how the race war starts. Some jumped-up Richard Cranium says something bad about them, and all the elf lovers get on the back foot. Chaos ensues.
How 'bout a PC who thinks that living to be a million years old and yet having a naturally weak CON score makes sense?
I told a friend of mine about that and he said that since Elves usually only live with other Elves their lower Con wouldn't matter as much for fighting off diseases and whatnot. Kinda makes sense. Not saying it's right, but it makes more sense than nothing.
And this is how the race war starts. Some jumped-up Richard Cranium says something bad about them, and all the elf lovers get on the back foot. Chaos ensues.OMG, dude, Elves are great for LOTS of characters!
Want an effiminate PC?
. . . . Elf!Want to play an arrogant, self-righteous, effete snob?
. . . . Elf is the answer.How 'bout a PC who thinks that living to be a million years old and yet having a naturally weak CON score makes sense?
. . . . You know the Race to play.All in all, Elves are a great choice for anyone who wants to play a member of a race full of whiney, good-for-nothing, think-they-created-magic, pretend they're better than everyone else cuz they remember Sauron when he was here last but were too pathetic to really stop him and now crying for humans and dwarves (Real races) to save their lame-ass selves and now, 1000 years later are begging for help again all the while being dicks cuz they remember from last time even though no one else gives a damn.
That's the Elf.
W E Ray is half-troll, what do you expect? ;)
I told a friend of mine about that and he said that since Elves usually only live with other Elves their lower Con wouldn't matter as much for fighting off diseases and whatnot. Kinda makes sense. Not saying it's right, but it makes more sense than nothing.How 'bout a PC who thinks that living to be a million years old and yet having a naturally weak CON score makes sense?
They're not immune to disease. Their biology is different. Like some insects live longer than others. It's just a difference in lifecycle, not disease resistance.
W E Ray is half-troll, what do you expect? ;)And this is how the race war starts. Some jumped-up Richard Cranium says something bad about them, and all the elf lovers get on the back foot. Chaos ensues.OMG, dude, Elves are great for LOTS of characters!
Want an effiminate PC?
. . . . Elf!Want to play an arrogant, self-righteous, effete snob?
. . . . Elf is the answer.How 'bout a PC who thinks that living to be a million years old and yet having a naturally weak CON score makes sense?
. . . . You know the Race to play.All in all, Elves are a great choice for anyone who wants to play a member of a race full of whiney, good-for-nothing, think-they-created-magic, pretend they're better than everyone else cuz they remember Sauron when he was here last but were too pathetic to really stop him and now crying for humans and dwarves (Real races) to save their lame-ass selves and now, 1000 years later are begging for help again all the while being dicks cuz they remember from last time even though no one else gives a damn.
That's the Elf.
Precisely this.
They're not immune to disease. Their biology is different. Like some insects live longer than others. It's just a difference in lifecycle, not disease resistance.I told a friend of mine about that and he said that since Elves usually only live with other Elves their lower Con wouldn't matter as much for fighting off diseases and whatnot. Kinda makes sense. Not saying it's right, but it makes more sense than nothing.How 'bout a PC who thinks that living to be a million years old and yet having a naturally weak CON score makes sense?
I didn't mean to suggest that they were. Moreso that because they're usually secluded they're not exposed to as much disease in the first place. Though it's true that they have a different physiology. If they didn't have the penalty to Con they'd likely live even longer than they do now.
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Elf... Barbarians..?
....
...........
RAGE.
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Elf... Barbarians..?
....
...........
RAGE.
Elf barbarian's don't rage. They have hissy fits. ;-)
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Elf barbarian's don't rage. They have hissy fits. ;-)Elf... Barbarians..?
....
...........
RAGE.
As much as I would like to avoid stoking the flames of the impending race war or implying that I dislike elves (I actually rather like them, though I am not a raving fangirl), that was actually rather amusing.
Elf barbarian's don't rage. They have hissy fits. ;-)Elf... Barbarians..?
....
...........
RAGE.
The only, the ONLY good reason to go elf barbarian would be in a dervish dance urban build, and honestly, a halfling would be better for that because at least they don't get a -2 to their rage stat.
As much as I would like to avoid stoking the flames of the impending race war or implying that I dislike elves (I actually rather like them, though I am not a raving fangirl), that was actually rather amusing.Elf barbarian's don't rage. They have hissy fits. ;-)Elf... Barbarians..?
....
...........
RAGE.
Most everything I say on here is for amusement purposes only. ;-) I like elves. I just enjoy the imagery.
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The only, the ONLY good reason to go elf barbarian would be in a dervish dance urban build, and honestly, a halfling would be better for that because at least they don't get a -2 to their rage stat.Elf barbarian's don't rage. They have hissy fits. ;-)Elf... Barbarians..?
....
...........
RAGE.
Halfling barbarians throw tantrums.
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I've enjoyed countless hours of reading these and other boards. As such I've come upon couple of questions that I really can't phantom an answer for.
“The thing about an elf... it's got lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll's eyes. When it comes at you it doesn't seem to be livin'... until he bites you, and those black eyes roll over white.”
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Halfling barbarians throw tantrums.The only, the ONLY good reason to go elf barbarian would be in a dervish dance urban build, and honestly, a halfling would be better for that because at least they don't get a -2 to their rage stat.Elf barbarian's don't rage. They have hissy fits. ;-)Elf... Barbarians..?
....
...........
RAGE.
That's fine. They get a +1 to thrown weapons.
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Bomb chucking alchemists. You get int for the DC's on your bombs, dex to hit with, and the con isn't a huge deal because you can stay in the back.
Well, Golarion elves get a bonus to disguise checks when dressing up as the Easter Bunny.
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The only, the ONLY good reason to go elf barbarian would be in a dervish dance urban build, and honestly, a halfling would be better for that because at least they don't get a -2 to their rage stat.Elf barbarian's don't rage. They have hissy fits. ;-)Elf... Barbarians..?
....
...........
RAGE.
Pssh, roll-player.
OMG, dude, Elves are great for LOTS of characters!
Want an effiminate PC?
. . . . Elf!Want to play an arrogant, self-righteous, effete snob?
. . . . Elf is the answer.How 'bout a PC who thinks that living to be a million years old and yet having a naturally weak CON score makes sense?
. . . . You know the Race to play.All in all, Elves are a great choice for anyone who wants to play a member of a race full of whiney, good-for-nothing, think-they-created-magic, pretend they're better than everyone else cuz they remember Sauron when he was here last but were too pathetic to really stop him and now crying for humans and dwarves (Real races) to save their lame-ass selves and now, 1000 years later are begging for help again all the while being dicks cuz they remember from last time even though no one else gives a damn.
That's the Elf.
I'll bet you're a dwarf-lover.
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I'll bet you're a dwarf-lover.OMG, dude, Elves are great for LOTS of characters!
Want an effiminate PC?
. . . . Elf!Want to play an arrogant, self-righteous, effete snob?
. . . . Elf is the answer.How 'bout a PC who thinks that living to be a million years old and yet having a naturally weak CON score makes sense?
. . . . You know the Race to play.All in all, Elves are a great choice for anyone who wants to play a member of a race full of whiney, good-for-nothing, think-they-created-magic, pretend they're better than everyone else cuz they remember Sauron when he was here last but were too pathetic to really stop him and now crying for humans and dwarves (Real races) to save their lame-ass selves and now, 1000 years later are begging for help again all the while being dicks cuz they remember from last time even though no one else gives a damn.
That's the Elf.
I'd be surprised if anyone loves dwarves considering their penalty to Charisma. :P
You can't have an elf barbarian.
They can't fit their greatsword into their tree.
Unless of course they take Power Attack and chop the tree until it fits. Of course at that point I'd rather just have the Druid adjust the tree for me.
Any class that uses Int and doesn't mind having Dex. Which is to say, any class that uses Int. Wizards, Witches, Wizards, and Alchemists come to mind. I listed Wizards twice because they're awesome Wizards.Are the better wizards than a human?
Would they make a good Magus?
What about a Eldritch Knight (compared to the Magus) probably not.
I'm playing a magus in a brand new campaign my D&D group started and I'm loving it. If you build a dervish magus you get +2 to the two stats you benefit from having high. Sure you take a con hit but toughness and the favored class bonus can pick up the slack if you're that worried. Not only that but as others before me have said elves come with a lot of neat fluff. Part of the reason why I picked elf in the first place.