I am a little confused to the rules regarding summon monster and templates. After reading a few posts in the forum, it looks like I have been playing them wrong.
When summoning a celestial eagle, for example, as a neutral summoner, does it gain the ability to by pass Dr/good?
Does its smite evil work like a paladin's smite evil? I thought it let you by pass Dr...
Also, do the templates grant languages to the creature for basic instructions?
I didn't see any definitive ruling on these. The smiting ability is the main thing I'm worried about.
If you are neutral you can choose to apply the celestial or fiendish template.
The smite from the template does not bypass DR.
They do not grant languages either. If you summon an animal with the template then you need handle animal to direct, other wise it attacks the closest enemy. Not all GM's enforce that though.
The template's smite only gives you what it says in the template. It would have to specifically call out bypassing DR or say smite with a reference to the paladin in order to bypass DR.
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1] dont know
2]Special Attacks smite evil 1/day as a swift action (adds Cha bonus to attack rolls and damage bonus equal to HD against evil foes; smite persists until target is dead or the celestial creature rests- so doesnt work like paladins
3]no more boosting of intel, so no more getting speach. Is a new discovery "feral speech" that lets you talk to those animals now.
I think some of the confusion is that lantern archons get to bypass Dr with there lazers.
You can add Lawful or Chaotic templates now also...as a neutral you can chose Good/Evil/Lawful/Chaotic...
I was afraid that I was wrong about the smite ability. Oh well. Kinda wished they named it something else, like lesser smite or something, to avoid confusing assumptions. Doesn't help that the d20pfsrd site redirects the template's smite evil to the paladin page.
Luckily, I don't think I abused this too much in the past...just ended combat a round or two earlier. But now I know.
Doesn't help that the d20pfsrd site redirects the template's smite evil to the paladin page.
Thanks for that info. I will see if I can get that fixed.
Thanks for that info. I will see if I can get that fixed.Doesn't help that the d20pfsrd site redirects the template's smite evil to the paladin page.
Can you get me a link to the page that directs you to the paladin page?
Thanks for that info. I will see if I can get that fixed.Doesn't help that the d20pfsrd site redirects the template's smite evil to the paladin page.
No problem. It looks like it might have automatically set up the link since the name is the same. Only the celestial template seems to do it.
You can add Lawful or Chaotic templates now also...as a neutral you can chose Good/Evil/Lawful/Chaotic...
When did this happen?
You can add Lawful or Chaotic templates now also...as a neutral you can chose Good/Evil/Lawful/Chaotic...When did this happen?
This creature is summoned with the celestial template if you are good, the entropic template if you are chaotic, the fiendish template if you are evil, or the resolute template if you are lawful; you may choose any if you are neutral.
No idea when it happened...Ultimate magic perhaps...
You can add Lawful or Chaotic templates now also...as a neutral you can chose Good/Evil/Lawful/Chaotic...When did this happen?This creature is summoned with the celestial template if you are good, the entropic template if you are chaotic, the fiendish template if you are evil, or the resolute template if you are lawful; you may choose any if you are neutral.
No idea when it happened...Ultimate magic perhaps...
Bestiary 2 I think has the other two templates.
No problem. It looks like it might have automatically set up the link since the name is the same. Only the celestial template seems to do it.Thanks for that info. I will see if I can get that fixed.Doesn't help that the d20pfsrd site redirects the template's smite evil to the paladin page.
It is fixed.
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You can add Lawful or Chaotic templates now also...as a neutral you can chose Good/Evil/Lawful/Chaotic...When did this happen?This creature is summoned with the celestial template if you are good, the entropic template if you are chaotic, the fiendish template if you are evil, or the resolute template if you are lawful; you may choose any if you are neutral.
No idea when it happened...Ultimate magic perhaps...
The entropic and resolute templates appear in Bestiary 2. The templates state that such creatures can be summoned with spells like summon monster. It doesn't explicitly modify the spells or indicate under what conditions, such as alignment of the caster, the template can be applied either automatically or as a choice.
The prd entry for summon monster has a footnote for fiendish or celestial only, without reference to the entropic or resolute template. The update/errata documents for the Core Rulebook make no change regarding this either.
D20pfsrd.com's entry for summon monster has a modified version of the footnote regarding the template applied to summoned creatures, without noting a source; the footnote itself is ambiguous and creates a contradiction. According to the footnote that the website provides, what template is applied if the caster using the spell is Lawful Good, for example?
So, while the option to summon entropic or resolute creatures exists, under what conditions or whether this requires an additional rules resource via an archetype, discovery, domain power, feat, houserule, errata, FAQ, or whatever, is unclear. Does anyone know if one exists?
The footnote for d20pfsrd.com's entry may be based on an undocumented source that I haven't identified, or it may have been their interpretation on how to handle the Bestiary 2 entry.
Yeah it is just kinda 'there' popping up in the bestiary II.
I figure the templates apply much like others- you have to apply a template, but if you're neutral you get some extra options. So a lawful good summoner can give it the celestial or resolute template.
Celestial/fiendish is easy to envision though... conjuring a resolute pony or entropic eagle just seems weird.
I have to pipe in with a rules question... whose alignment matters? Is it dependent on the one who does the summoning, or will (in cast of a summoning cleric) the deity's alignment count into the equation as well?
Midnight Angel - Both alignments count. If you use Summon Monster to summon a creature with an alignment subtype then SM is a spell of that type. In other words, if you use SM to summon a babau demon then that casting of SM is an [Evil] spell. Clerics are prohibited from casting spells with an alignment tag contrary to their own alignment or their deity's alignment (no Evil spells for clerics of Good deities)
Per the PRD - "Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells: A cleric can't cast spells of an alignment opposed to her own or her deity's (if she has one). Spells associated with particular alignments are indicated by the chaotic, evil, good, and lawful descriptors in their spell descriptions."
This is why a Cleric if a Good deity can't cast Animate Dead, for instance, though I've frequently seen that house ruled since some players and DMs really like undead and fondly remember the days when skeletons and zombies were Neutral.