What to do with 14th level PCs?


Advice

Dark Archive

So I got talked into running a 14th level game, but I'm at a loss to come up with a story. The plan was to use Golarion, but I'm not married to the setting if someone has another idea.

Here are the PCs:

- Sorcerer 14
- Barbarian 14
- TBD (suggestions welcome)


Well, part of the story is going to depend on how influential and prominent you expect these characters to be. 14th level is generally assumed to be a pretty big deal, but every GM and game is different.

Dark Archive

kyrt-ryder wrote:
Well, part of the story is going to depend on how influential and prominent you expect these characters to be. 14th level is generally assumed to be a pretty big deal, but every GM and game is different.

I have no preconceived expectations, so any story suggestion would be welcome.


How much backstory do you have on the characters?

Grand Lodge

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Send them to WAR!

Not a mere dungeon crawl, an actual mega battle where they have to survive wave after wave of combat, much like a Battle Interactive.


Save the world wound.

Dark Archive

kyrt-ryder wrote:
How much backstory do you have on the characters?

Basically none, but I/we could assign backstory if needed.

LazarX wrote:

Send them to WAR!

Not a mere dungeon crawl, an actual mega battle where they have to survive wave after wave of combat, much like a Battle Interactive.

Idk what a "Battle Interactive" is but I'm hoping to avoid making it nothing but combat after combat.

Abraham spalding wrote:
Save the world wound.

Huh?

Liberty's Edge

CrackedOzy wrote:

So I got talked into running a 14th level game, but I'm at a loss to come up with a story. The plan was to use Golarion, but I'm not married to the setting if someone has another idea.

Here are the PCs:

- Sorcerer 14
- Barbarian 14
- TBD (suggestions welcome)

Pick up the book Dungeons of Golarion. Great ideas for mega dungeons just gotta add a plot hook. Hollow mountain could be great. Send the PCs into the castle of night to retrieve a lost artifact. Reasons to get the lost artifact could be...

to heal the world wound(stolen from Abraham)
stop the release of an arch devil or great being upon the world
kill a minor evil demi-god that is plotting destruction upon the world

Without knowing the backgrounds as a poster above has stated its hard to toss out ideas.


I fully agree about the level of power of the PCs. The Legend Lore spells considers anyone who is level 11 or higher to be "legendary." Hercules is legendary, so keep that in mind.

In the games I have run, the PCs usually have started their own powerful organization or risen to a place of leadership within some powerful group. Typically, the group has something to do with the overall plot of the campaign.

Since you are starting at such a high level, you have a few options.

1: A brand new threat A planar or military invasion, a crazy cult, a long-forgotten god. Give the new PCs a new threat to deal with so they are on the same level as the other people in the setting. That helps sidestep the whole question of why the PCs are helping with something that would normally be left to the town guard, army, church, etc.

2: The PCs already are part of something bigger than themselves This works best if all the PCs like the idea of being tied together in some manner, such as all being in the army or followers of a specific god. I'd avoid this if the PCs don't like being railroaded in such a way.

3: Welcome to the planes! Anything can happen in the planes. The CRs are higher, the towns don't have to make lots of sense, and the economy will be able to handle their wealth. Even 14th level characters will pause before an entire demon army. And there's lots for them to do, and many different sides and factions to choose from."

Those are just seeds for a game, though. The best way to come up with a story for the PCs is to look at the PCs backstories and what the players want to do and accomplish. From that, you can get a much better idea of what would make a good story. Do you have any information about the characters you can share?

EDIT: OK, so you don't have a backstory for characters yet. That's not uncommon. A fair number of people like to sketch out of a character and then solidify it based on the first couple sessions.

However, do you know what the PCs that will be playing enjoy?

Dark Archive

Fing Mandragoran wrote:

Pick up the book Dungeons of Golarion. Great ideas for mega dungeons just gotta add a plot hook. Hollow mountain could be great. Send the PCs into the castle of night to retrieve a lost artifact. Reasons to get the lost artifact could be...

to heal the world wound(stolen from Abraham)
stop the release of an arch devil or great being upon the world
kill a minor evil demi-god that is plotting destruction upon the world

I will have to check that out, thanks.

Fing Mandragoran wrote:
Without knowing the backgrounds as a poster above has stated its hard to toss out ideas.

Well as I said they don't have one, really we are just doing this as a one-shot to try out high level characters, so backstories seemed a waste of time.


'Avoid nothing but combat' is difficult without backstories, especially for high level characters. Think of all the trials these characters have to have gone through to reach level 14, and how those must have shaped them as people.

Honestly, 'one shots' are terrible for testing high level characters. Trust me on this one. You probably won't get to use half of what you have available to you, FAR less than that for the Sorcerer.

If you really want to try out high level characters, I'd strongly suggest making a short campaign out of this (4-6 sessions) and put some heart into creating real characters rather than just classes with HP and Powers and a Quest.

Liberty's Edge

Since the PCs are going to be 14th level, you might want to think about using a Paizo module written for characters of that level: Tomb of the Iron Medusa


Send them against Turok Mak the Half Orc from the Greyhawk setting.


If you are hell bend on a one shot then browse the paizo store and pick a module that inspires you and use the part you like that fits into a single session.

BUT, it is an awful idea to use a one shot if your really want to "try out" high level chars!

Basically there are several ways to approach high level and you will only get to try out the least attractive one with a one-shot - the "high level is like low level with tougher monsters" approach.

To use this you need a tight locale that the PCs can't easily escape from a a pressing plot to keep them in there.

But "real" high level means something different altogether. The PCs may be kings/queens of countries with vast resources on their hands and many contacts and a rich background. They made livelong friends and bitter dire enemies on their way to where they now are. This mode of play can be very very rewarding, but it is also very hard to recreate unless the PCs actually start at level 1 and go all their way up.

Keep this in mind if you feel that "high level" is not worth it after your one-shot.


Step 1: Send them on a mission to kill Larloch, ancient lich and netherese arcanist extraordinaire, in his home of Warlock's Crypt.

Step 2: Promptly tell them to roll up new 1st level characters with full backstories. ;)


A cleric, paladin, inquisitor or a druid seem a good fit for the party as long as you do not decide to focus on traps much, which honestly should be fine even in trap filled dungeons. You just make the traps in itself fun.

If they have another reliable means of healing a ranger, ninja or alchemist are a good fit, if tey are all human or otherwise the same race you could make them the champions of a tribe. They could even be ancestor heroes that are called back from the realm of the dead to protect the tribe against a great evil that defiles the land, if you take inspiration from diablo you might elevate a powerful demon possessed sorcerer to villain status.

The villain's goals might be something like tearing open the world wound to unleash the hordes of the abyss fully, complete a profane ritual to fully manifest itself on the prime material, release even greater evils from imprisonment or banish the gods from the world of mortals leaving them without protection against the demons.

You might select a few bonus items for your players to compensate for the lack of a 4th party member, if there is no strong healer in the party. Staff of healing or a ring of regeneration or similar items might be just what they need.
Alternatively if you decide they are ancestor spirits called back to the mortal world to defend their descendants you can give them some inherent spirit abilities, faster healing and a few minor spell-like or supernatural abilities might be good. The destiny bloodline might give some fitting ideas for this, the rerolls are particulary good for a smaller than usual party and plays upon their champion/hero status. The players will like feeling special and it takes away some of your problems as a GM for a small party.


At that level, why not consider the Breaching Festival in Korvosa. There's even a (13th level) Pathfinder module for exactly that.

Grand Lodge

kyrt-ryder wrote:


If you really want to try out high level characters, I'd strongly suggest making a short campaign out of this (4-6 sessions) and put some heart into creating real characters rather than just classes with HP and Powers and a Quest.

That really depends on his players. One of them chose the ultimate combat monster and the other, a class that's extremely suited for arcane blasting. Maybe what his players want is just the chance to flex muscular and arcane powers, and build up an old fashioned body count.

Has Erick Wujick once said about running Amber games, if your players all max out on Warfare, that's the clue not to make your campaign all about Psyche.


Well, my chars have always been the ones with high Warfare that got raped by the ones with high Psyche because in Amber Wizards are more powerful than Fighters ;-)

LazarX has a point there. Ask you players if their idea of high level is "double the damage of low level" and if the answer is yes, do something like this:

"As you walk the Abyss on a sunny midday to rescue the princess from the clutches of 'Aard'y'vaarg the apostrophed, you encounter 3 Balors, roll initiative."

Just remember to use iconic adversaries. Will make everyone happy.


they have to make a famous neutral cult loose it's followers and cut the link of the arch-priest to his god.

This only works if the group likes rogueish adventures.

Else: go into the castle of the ice-giants, kick some butt and save the princess. Escape the collapsing ice-castle while carrying the obese, clumpsy princess.

Grand Lodge

Richard Leonhart wrote:

they have to make a famous neutral cult loose it's followers and cut the link of the arch-priest to his god.

This only works if the group likes rogueish adventures.

Again look at the characters. A Barbarian and a Sorcerer... not exactly a stealth or subtle combo.

Dark Archive

For Golarion, I would suggest something along the lines of the end of Rise of the Runelords. One of the other Runelords (maybe Sorshen or Alaznist) is awakening in response to Karzoug's attempt to return to the material plane, and the PCs must stop her. All the Runelords were around CR 20 and had high-level servants, so that should keep them busy for a while.

As for the other party member, I would suggest a divine class. Possibly paladin.

Grand Lodge

kyrt-ryder wrote:

Honestly, 'one shots' are terrible for testing high level characters. Trust me on this one. You probably won't get to use half of what you have available to you, FAR less than that for the Sorcerer.

I'm going to disagree on this. WOTC put out a set of short one-encounter mini-adventures called Dungeon Delves, which you still might be able to download from the WOTC archives. Essentially you get pre-gen high level characters statted out only with what's needed for the encounter and it's a cathartic slugfest. A great change of pace from the usual adventure format.

Spoiler:

Not to spoil overmuch, but one of them finally gives you a reason to use those two gigantic dragon figures gathering dust on your shelf.

The Exchange

Well, first of all, I strongly suggest that your undecided third player try out a healer or at least a semi-healer (Bard, Paladin, Ranger or Inquisitor.)

Second, I agree that it does look like they expect Epic Battle. What I'd probably do is run something along the lines of the old G2: Glacial Rift of the Frost Giant Jarl, because nothing says hard-core high-level like an arctic smackdown against giants. It would be best if they had a personal stake - for instance, if the sorceror's home village was hit by the giants while he was down in the soft warm lands gaining his last 8 levels: or if one of the barbarian's kinsmen went up there to fight the giants and never came back.

That said, the same 3 characteristices - 1) a personal stake, 2) harsh conditions, and 3) larger-than-life opponents - can be used to make a decent adventure in that range. For my last group it was a forgotten citadel at the bottom of the ocean crawling with Spawn of Kyuss (think "infectious zombies" if you don't know what an S of K is) to prevent a massive undead invasion all along the coast, but I suppose the principle is the same.

Liberty's Edge

Hi Gambit,

Greetings. Pardon my off topic interruption but I saw you are stationed at RAF Mildenhall. My hubby just PCS'ed in and I am looking for a Pathfinder group to join locally in Mildenhall or possibly Lakenheath. I am a bit of a newbie; started with 3.5 and converted to Pathfinder, began all of it in March this year. I usually play a rogue. I'm looking to learn and be part of a group that wants to play. I don't mind kids running around but I do like the focus to be on the game. I always bring provender! Can you help me find a group?

Thanks!


Just use a madlibs to give you inspiration.

__monsters__ are threatening __place/people__ with __bad thing__. __person__ are very interested in seeing it dealt with. The situation is complicated by __relationship/condition__ __monsters__.

So, just picking words at random, flipping to pages, and so on, you could get:

Basilisks are threatening merchants with capture. A dirty beggar is very interested in seeing it dealt with. The situation is complicated by a territorial crag linnorm.

Then expand. Why are basilisks a problem for merchants? Perhaps they are overbreeding. Why are they capturing merchants. Maybe they are dragging the statues back to some giant basilisk egg laying broodmother. Okay, were poaching from How to Train Your Dragon, but thats fine. An advanced, giantx3 basilisk with a Petrify DC in the mid 20s is pretty scary even for 14th level PCs. Just having to make potentially 8 petrify saves a round is scary, for the mage with +9 fort. Don't discount lower CRs just because its "too easy".

Why did a dirty beggar pass this along to the PCs. Maybe he's an agent for the king, or a merchant who wants to see his failed experiment with controlling the trade routs with domesticated basilisks stopped without anyone aware it was his fault. Maybe hes the crag linnorm in polymorph, hoping the PCs will remove a genuine threat in his territory.

This is what I use when I "seat of the pants" DM, which is pretty much anytime I'm not using an Adventure Path or Module. Maybe it will work for you.

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