If I was to build a tripping and disarming whip fighter, I would eventually want the following feats:
combat expertise, int 13
improved disarm, ce
improved trip, ce
combat reflexes
exotic weapon prof, whip, +1
weapon focus, whip, +1
whip mastery, +2
weapon spec, whip, +4
improved whip mastery, +5
greater trip, +6
greater disarm, +6
improved crit, whip, +8
greater whip mastery, +8
tripping strike, +9
Did I miss any? If not, it would take 14 levels of fighter (13 if human) to get them all.
Are there viable builds for this? Seems like it could be fun. Disarming everyone with weapons, tripping those without, AoO with the reach (keep something in other hand incase anyone gets close. Maybe I should concentrate on the tripping and AoO first then add disamring as I get the feats.
keep something in other hand incase anyone gets close.
Whip Mastery lets you attack adjacent foes without provoking attacks of opportunity, so you don't need a weapon in your other hand. I suggest carrying a shield.
Maybe I should concentrate on the tripping and AoO first then add disamring as I get the feats.
Yes, I think that's a good idea. Tripping is more useful than disarming, and I think you'll be happier with the rate of progress.
Also, the main advantage of "Improved Disarm" is that you don't provoke an attack of opportunity when making a disarm attack. Since a whip has reach, you can use it to make disarm attacks without provoking AOO simply by stepping 5' away from your enemy before the attack. (Or just not being within threat range to start with.)
Well the greater whip mastery is all but useless Imo. you can skip weapon spec. And imp crit as well.
The whip should be your main weapon but not your main DAMAGE dealing weapon, use a flail instead ( its in the same weapon group)
If your starting at first lv. Use a human because you'll need 3 feats to make it work for you. One of which is EWP (whip) next is combat expert, then imp. trip.
Combat patrol also is an interesting feat for this build.
Ninj'd
It might be a while before you get whip mastery if you start at lv 1...
You missed greater weapon focus.
Improved Crit is kinda bad for whips since they are 20/x2 weapons.
Combat reflexes is not going to be useful until you can threated with the whip via Improved Whip Mastery.
Also, the AoO on the trip or disarm attempt is irrelevant if you are attacking from outside your enemies reach, so you can still disarm/trip just fine without improved disarm/trip.
I would go this route
Human fighter
Level 1 - EWP: Whip, Weapon Focus: Whip, Combat Expertise.
Level 2 - Whip Mastery
Level 3 - Improved Trip
Level 4 - Weapon Spec: Whip
Level 5 - Improved Whip Mastery
Level 6 - Combat Reflexes
Level 7 - Greater Trip
Level 8 - Greater whip Mastery
Level 9 - Greater Weapon Focus: Whip
Then starts picking up disarm feats.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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It's important that you get Improved Whip Mastery (for the threatening) and Combat Reflexes as soon as possible. Why? For the trip/disarm loop.
Your turn, you disarm them.
Their turn, they use a move action to pick up the weapon. They provoke.
You use your AoO to trip them. They get their weapon, but now they're prone.
They use another move action to stand up. They provoke.
You use your AoO to disarm them. They stand up, but now they're unarmed again.
Rinse and repeat.
I was going to make Blueluck´s 2nd point... Since the Whip has Reach (although doesn´t threaten until you have Improved Whip Mastery: also note that doesn´t threaten as large an area as a real Reach weapon, rather just your natural Reach +5´, so Enlarging yourself will not yield the same Threat Area as a real Reach Weapon) your targets won´t be able to take the AoO for not having the Improved Maneuver Feats. You may want to take them eventually, for the +2/+4 to CMB, but you don´t need them right away. I´m not sure if the benefit of Greater Disarm (sending the weapon to a random square within 15´ instead of dropping to the ground) is REALLY worth taking the Feat... EVER.
I don´t think Tripping Strike is that useful. Whips aren´t a high-crit-range weapon to begin with, and the nature of Trip is that you only can do it once to a given opponent and if you want them Prone you can just choose to Trip them in the first place. Once you get Greater Trip, your succesful Trip will give you a free AoO agaisnt them (although technically this runs into problems with the Whip´s Threat Area), so I see that being a more useful route than attacking them ´normally´ to begin with and hoping you Crit in order to get a Trip - Whips don´t do as much damage as other weapons, so might as well concentrate on what they do best: Trip enemies first, thena attack normally once they are Prone.
Without Tripping Strike, and given that Whips aren´t a high-crit-range weapons, Improved Crit: Whip isn´t that useful a Feat. You might want to hold onto both a melee weapon and the Whip, and then you can take a feats like Improved Critical: Scimitar to use when you want high damage output and don´t care about the Whip´s Maneuvers, etc (many creatures are immune to Trip or just have too-high CMDs, and Scimatars can Trip just as well as Whips actually).
You don´t need Combat Reflexes until AFTER you have Improved Whip Mastery, because you don´t threaten with the Whip until then, so extra AoO´s aren´t that useful to you until that point.
Without all those Feats, you can take some other stuff that isn´t directly related to your desired schtick, but will give you some more breadth, which is always good. Iron Will never hurts... Combat Patrol would be a good way to effect ´Area Lock-Down´ with your Whip/Trip AoO´s. Lunge is another one that you can get early, and expands your Reach (although not threat area for AoO´s) even more than the Whip´s natural 15´ (30´ enlarged), which can make your Full Attacks even more useful vs. dispersed enemies.
...Your turn, you disarm them.
Their turn, they use a move action to pick up the weapon. They provoke.
You use your AoO to trip them. They get their weapon, but now they're prone.
They use another move action to stand up. They provoke.
You use your AoO to disarm them. They stand up, but now they're unarmed again...
This is what I was thinking would be fun.
... Whip Mastery lets you attack adjacent foes without provoking attacks of opportunity, so you don't need a weapon in your other hand ...
I had missed that. Thx
You missed greater weapon focus.
Improved Crit is kinda bad for whips since they are 20/x2 weapons.
...
Thx on the first.
The second was just to make the tripping strike go off more often.But that may not be worth while.
... Combat Patrol would be a good way to effect ´Area Lock-Down´ with your Whip/Trip AoO´s. Lunge is another one that you can get early, and expands your Reach (although not threat area for AoO´s) even more than the Whip´s natural 15´ (30´ enlarged), which can make your Full Attacks even more useful vs. dispersed enemies ...
I did not think of these. Excellent idea
Though I'm having a hard time visualising lunge with a whip.
Are there viable builds for this? Seems like it could be fun. Disarming everyone with weapons, tripping those without, AoO with the reach (keep something in other hand incase anyone gets close. Maybe I should concentrate on the tripping and AoO first then add disamring as I get the feats.
How do you feel about 3rd party material (and how does your dm feel). There is a super genius martial archetype that you can use to get alot of these abilities and thus free up some feats (and get things working sooner).
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I would go this route
Human fighter
Level 1 - EWP: Whip, Weapon Focus: Whip, Combat Expertise.
Level 2 - Whip Mastery
Level 3 - Improved Trip
Level 4 - Weapon Spec: Whip
Level 5 - Improved Whip Mastery
Level 6 - Combat Reflexes
Level 7 - Greater Trip
Level 8 - Greater whip Mastery
Level 9 - Greater Weapon Focus: Whip
Level 10 - Tripping StrikeThen starts picking up disarm feats.
Actually, I would suggest :
- Asking your DM first for the free whip proficiency, even if it must cost you a whole category of weapon proficiencies to trade for it. Whether by being nice and convincing about how it fits your background, or by taking the Heirloom Weapon Trait as a tax. Or maybe both ? Ask nicely -> get the proficiency -> take Heirloom Weapon for the +1 bonus to AoO or +2 to one maneuver -> ??? -> PROFIT !
- You don't need Weapon Specialization if you wish to focus on maneuvers. Go high dex and weapon finesse.
- Tripping Strike isn't really worth it.
- Maybe you should see if Weapon Master archetype isn't the way to go.
You should now have two feats, and one talent left. I suggest to take the +2 to disarm with Heirloom Weapon ; the trait reducing the Combat Expertise penalty by 1 (0/+1 ; -1/+2 ;...) ; and for the feats, Improved Grapple, Improved Disarm.
For your equipment, get at least a +1 Dueling weapon (from the Pathfinder Society Field Guide, not the APG) = it gives a luck bonus to Trip/Disarm/Dirty Trick/Reposition CMB equal to 2xenhancement bonus of the weapon, stacking with said enhancement.
So basically, a +2 Dueling whip, with +6 from weapon finesse and a BAB of 6, gives 6+6 = 12 + 2(Magic) + 1(Weap.Focus) +1(GreaterWeap.Focus) + 4(Luck) = +20... before any feat or improving combat maneuvers.
With Greater Trip = +24.
With Reposition = +20.
With Disarm = +20 (+2 from Disarm Property, +2 from Improved Disarm) = +24.
And don't forget a foe you tripped through Greater Trip provokes from everyone... including you. Trip the guy, and disarm him with your attack of opportunity.
... How do you feel about 3rd party material (and how does your dm feel). There is a super genius martial archetype that you can use to get alot of these abilities and thus free up some feats (and get things working sooner).
iffy on 3rd party material.
It just depends on the specific instance. Some of the 3rd party stuff is just so clearly 'better' that we won't buy into it. If you have a specific example, I will check.
...For your equipment, get at least a +1 Dueling weapon (from the Pathfinder Society Field Guide, not the APG) = it gives a luck bonus to Trip/Disarm/Dirty Trick/Reposition CMB equal to 2xenhancement bonus of the weapon, stacking with said enhancement...
wow, I didn't know about that one.
I will have to download the PFSFG.The rest of it looks good.
and DOH !
I forgot about the weapon finesse
Just for reference, the archetype I am talking about is a super genius martial archetype called the black snake.
You will have to trade out some significant fighter abilities but in exchange you get:
Whip Proficiency, the ability to damage regardless of armor and do lethal damage with the whip and no attacks of opportunity when using a whip at first level
And at 2nd level and every other even level you choose a talent which include:
The ability to threaten adjacent (and scaling out to the full range of the whip)
The ability to manipulate objects 15 feet away as if you were adjacent to them.
A 1/3 level bonus to disarm
Ability to move 15feet by lashing your whip onto something and swinging moving at full speed up a wall or over obstacles
Take one of many bonus feats like agile manuevers, combat expertiese, the trip and disarm feats, etc.
*shameless plug*
Alternatively, if you enjoy grappling (and are allowed to use homebrew feats), you could also use my whip grappling feats.
I would max DEX, take weapon finesse, combat expertise (the most sucking feat ever), improved trip, fury´s fall and agile maneuvers.
This way you get your DEX modifier two times on trip attacks with a whip.
Especially in low levels very nice with the reach, even with a bard you can get there fast. Serpent´s lash is a good addition then letting you make another trip or disarm against an adjacent oponent if you are successful.
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For your equipment, get at least a +1 Dueling weapon (from the Pathfinder Society Field Guide, not the APG) = it gives a luck bonus to Trip/Disarm/Dirty Trick/Reposition CMB equal to 2xenhancement bonus of the weapon, stacking with said enhancement.
You can also combine your Dueling weapon with a Scabbard of Vigor. Getting a +9 to CMB for 3 rounds is nice.