Let's say I'm a 20th level wizard. I have an Int of 30. What is the fastest way for me to build a pyramid the size of Great Pyramid of Giza? (Hint: This is 88.3 million cubic feet of stone.)
If I use all of my level 5 and up spell slots (27 of them) on Wall of Stone, it will take me 215 years to create a pyramid from scratch.
Using only the core rules, can anyone do it faster? Can anyone do it faster than the ancient Egyptians (~30 years)?
I'd say if you were a 20th level wizard, you could wish for one...
I'd say if you were a 20th level wizard, you could wish for one...
True, although it doesn't fall under any of the "safe" wishes.
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If you want to save money and only charge people for looking at it there's Hallucinatory Terrain. I wouldn't recommend giving them a tour though. : P
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Dear dwarves of dwarfy mountain.
You have 6 months to build my pyramid. After that i will disintegrate one distillery for every week that my demands go unmet. You have been warned.
BOOM
Lyre of Building
By my calculations, assuming that you are skilled enough to take 10 on your perform check and always succeed, are a construct so require no food or sleep, the Lyre of Building will do the 30 years work of 10,000 men in 7,604 days (just over 20 years, not bad).
How long does it take to make 7,604 Lyres of Building and lyre playing constructs to match? ;)
Dominate person on the leader of a nation, force them to order all of the people to come help build it :)
Step 1: Be a Conjuror.
Step 2: Somewhere along the way get Superior Summons.
Step 3: Spam 1d3 + 2 Huge Earth Elementals.
Step 4: Have them get in the shape of an ever larger pyramid.
Step 5: Use Temporal Stasis before they can return to their home plane.
Step 6: Supplement this with Wall of Stone.
Step 7: Repeat as often as possible.
Step 8: Give up and Wish for it already. : P
Step 1: Be a Conjuror.
Step 2: Somewhere along the way get Superior Summons.
Step 3: Spam 1d3 + 2 Huge Earth Elementals.
Step 4: Have them get in the shape of an ever larger pyramid.
Step 5: Use Temporal Stasis before they can return to their home plane.
Step 6: Supplement this with Wall of Stone.
Step 7: Repeat as often as possible.
Assuming a Huge Earth Elemental can become a 10x10x10 cube, and 5 Temporal Stasis spells per day, that's a fairly quick 13.8 years.
Edit: Wait, you can only hit 1 creature per Temporal Stasis, that puts it back up to 48.3 years. Is there a way to summon larger elementals? You may still be on to something. ;)
Step 1: Be a Conjuror.
Step 2: Somewhere along the way get Superior Summons.
Step 3: Spam 1d3 + 2 Huge Earth Elementals.
Step 4: Have them get in the shape of an ever larger pyramid.
Step 5: Use Temporal Stasis before they can return to their home plane.
Step 6: Supplement this with Wall of Stone.
Step 7: Repeat as often as possible.
Assuming a Huge Earth Elemental can become a 10x10x10 cube, and 5 Temporal Stasis spells per day, that's a fairly quick 13.8 years.
Edit: Wait, you can only hit 1 creature per Temporal Stasis, that puts it back up to 48.3 years. Is there a way to summon larger elementals? You may still be on to something. ;)
If it wasn't for the fact that Temporal Stasis costs 5000 GP per casting, I'd agree that I was on to something. Perhaps I still am, but that's quite expensive.
You can technically get a freebie Huge Earth Elemental because you can permanently keep 1 around with you, but good luck convincing him to stay on this plane just to be part of a pyramid.
I don't know of any way to summon larger than Huge Earth Elementals.
How about Rampart? Any Plane effects that would help?
Hmmm...would a gelatinous cube that's 455.4 ft on a side be 40 hit dice or less?
If so, Gate that sucker in and cast Flesh to Stone on it. Carve with disintegrate until the correct shape.
Alternately, lure in piles of the largest creatures you can and go crazy with Flesh to Stone. That should get it done in much less than a year.
Here we go. Do what Chris said about luring in creatures and spam Flesh to Stone. Then spam Polymorph Any Object. Keep it the same in every way except same size and it'll be permanent.
It should work quite well, though someone successfully spamming Greater Dispel Magic could cause some absolute chaos. Good times.
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I was trying to think of something clever with using create water, a decanter of endless water or control weather to make a massive quantity of mud, and then transmute mud to rock to make it all into rock, but got stuck on an effective way to mold the mud into blocks and move them into position.
So, instead, create demiplane and greater create demiplane to the rescue. Cast it enough times during the day to give your temporary demiplane the following properties; morphic, gravity (none), portal, and time (time spent in the plane is double time in the outer world, allowing you to get twice as much use out of morphic).
Use morphic to form the stone of the demiplane into blocks and drop them through the portal into the material plane. Workers on the material plane move them into position before the next delivery arrives. Every day, recast create greater demiplane to change the location of the portal in the material plane, as the current height of the pyramid dictates (so that they never have to be moved up, but are created on the level and just have to be pulled into position).
Note that a single 'greater demiplane' is only 20 10' cubes / level (so 400 10' cubes, in your case) and half of that is likely to be air, and not stone, so you may have to strip mine more than one of these demiplanes, although it may be more efficient to use your 7th level slots to use lesser create demiplane to add 3 10' cubes / level of volume to the pre-existing demiplane...
AFAIK, there's no rule stating that matter removed from the demiplane ceases to exist, or ceases to exist if the spell ends, but check your GM to be sure he doesn't rule that way!
Clearly the fastest way is to imitate the Egyptians but with added magic. Hire 100 mages for a month to make Muleback Cords = 3,000 cords
Hire 3,000 basic labourers. They now have the ability to pull insane amounts of load. If they can't drag those blocks faster than the egyptian you need bigger wips.
Also quarrying blocks of stone must be possible with magic right?
It's more fun for me if one guy manages to do it, rather than hiring a bunch of guys.
Expeditious Excavation is only a 1st level spell if you were wanting to shape a mud mountain.
I'm not familiar enough with how planes work, but that looks like a winner.
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Clearly the fastest way is to imitate the Egyptians but with added magic. Hire 100 mages for a month to make Muleback Cords = 3,000 cords
Hire 3,000 basic labourers. They now have the ability to pull insane amounts of load. If they can't drag those blocks faster than the egyptian you need bigger wips.Also quarrying blocks of stone must be possible with magic right?
Adamantine greatsword, 3050 gp, ignores 20 pts of Hardness (stone has Hardness 8), which means it can cut and dress stone blocks in *minutes.* (You'll want something with a 5 ft. long blade, to cut deep enough into the stone to be able to prepare 10 ft. blocks.)
For the laborers, it doesn't cost any more to hire orcish laborers, with +4 Str, than human laborers, so that might also help.
Making them into zombies will; A) increase their strength more, and B) cut down on labor disputes.
Regular use of grease spells in the 1st through 4th level slots might also be handy to move those blocks into position, just slick the path and give a push!
If you've got a Bard or Cleric cohort, or some other means of accessing animate object at CL 16+ (such as by summoning or planar binding or gating a trumpet archon or ghaele azata that has prepared the animate object spell), you can also have the blocks of stone move themselves (technically, filling a 10' by 10' space, could make them as 'small' as size Large, but, looking at the Animated Objects Bestiary listing, I'd say they are closer to Gargantuan, even if they don't take up a 20' space).
If climate and location permits, a pyramid made of ice would be even easier to create. Planar Bind / Ally / Gate an Ice Devil, and put it to work with it's 'at will' wall of ice ability. If the local climate is not conducive to a permanant ice-pyramid, use control weather to make it so temporarily, and use polymorph any object to change it block by block.
"Martha, why is that darn fool wizard making a castle out of ice in the middle of the desert?"
"Also, why is it snowing?"
Hmmm...would a gelatinous cube that's 455.4 ft on a side be 40 hit dice or less?
Do gelatinous cubes count as flesh? If so, a colossal cube might be the way to go...
If climate and location permits, a pyramid made of ice would be even easier to create. Planar Bind / Ally / Gate an Ice Devil, and put it to work with it's 'at will' wall of ice ability. If the local climate is not conducive to a permanant ice-pyramid, use control weather to make it so temporarily, and use polymorph any object to change it block by block.
That might work fairly well. As long as the ice devil can keep up with the ice creation, polymorph any object can effect enough volume to convert a pyramid in just 1.2 years.
I would think that the 100 cubic feet per level limits the total size of the new object. Otherwise, you could use the spell to make a pebble into a moon.
As a side note, if you just want a hollow pyramid, it only takes .46 years to form the surface of the pyramid using Wall of Stone.
Create Demiplane twice -- once for the plane once for structure option to make the pyramid.
Polymorph any object -- turn it into a frog (or anything else really).
Greater teleport with the the frog where you want the pyramid.
Dismiss the polymorph any object.
Done, and can't be dismissed by dispelling the polymorph any object.
Total time: 8 hours, 3 standard actions, or as many as you need sections for the pyramid's transport.
Create Demiplane twice -- once for the plane once for structure option to make the pyramid.
Polymorph any object -- turn it into a frog (or anything else really).
Greater teleport with the the frog where you want the pyramid.
Dismiss the polymorph any object.
Done, and can't be dismissed by dispelling the polymorph any object.
Total time: 8 hours, 3 standard actions, or as many as you need sections for the pyramid's transport.
I think you win.
Edit: Except create greater demiplane only makes 4000 cubic feet of space per casting. It takes 12.1 years at 5 castings per day just to create the appropriate volume.
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A Great Wyrm copper dragon (GWCD) can use Stone Shape, Transmute Rock to Mud, Transmute Mud to Rock, Wall of Stone and Move Earth, all at will…with caster level 27.
Sweet merciful Zeus! I did not know that PF dragons 'at will' SLAs were actually 'at will' and not like the 3.5 dragons with their 'at will, 1/day' nonsense!
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If you'd know where and how large you want the chambers and corridors inside your pyramid, you could probably exlucde that volume from your calculation.
You could use balloons (like they use for igloos nowadays) or inner perimeter walls (you got Wall of Stone at will, after all) and build around that.
Don't know if that would save any time, actually, against carving your rooms out of the massive pyramid afterwards (Transmute Rock to Mud and bulldozing with Move Earth).
Another thought... is there a way to make your pyramid out of a harder substance than what Mud to Rock gives you?
Btw, if you need some nice obelisks in front of your pyramid, you can cast Create Pit right in a puddle mud.
Let the mud flow into the pit and fill it up.
Then cast Mud to Rock to form one stone block.
As Create Pit says it drives creatures inside upwards when the spell ends, I'd assume it also drives objects inside upwards, so one nice 10x10x(10/2 CL) colum rises from the dirt.
Shape the tip before or after it rises, as you please.
Actually... That probably allows for some giant quasi-hydraulic piston apperature... But I've derailed this far enough already.
You could search for a plane with the highly morphic trait that reacts to Willpower. Then planeshift to said plane and will the pyramid into existence.
Transporting it back to where you want it should be a safe Wish spell.
Out of curiosity, from a real knowledge noob...
Your average pyramid is Base area * height / 3, in volume, right?
If you could find ways of Destroying or disintegrating an amount of earth Twice as fast( or faster) as actually creating or building it... Would you be able to Lift such a massive structure up? Would it be too tall, basically risking touch of the Tectonic plates?
Otherwise, I like the Simulacrum idea; Which in turn allows you to have Several giant pyramid-building dragons, as well, needing only the consent of Dragon Prime.
I Truly and utterly wish that it were possible to create a Demiplane that's mud-filled, with a perfectly square Planar Portal. Just have a bunch of them churning out 10*10*10 cubes per 6 seconds, aided by gravity, instantly Rock-a-fied by either a mage or an intelligent item or enslaved creature... Then just go Minecraft on it. Arrange and build, using slaves as necessary.
But that would probably be a Significantly more expensive alternative to otherwise just Simulacramming a dragon. I think you'd even be able to Simulacram a beast like that at level 14, if not mistaken.
Better to have several, though. Not sure if they retain their Full caster level for Sorcerer spells, but for the Spell-like abilities, they most certainly have their effective caster level cut in half, due to half HD... Not sure if that was added into Cyber's calculations.
You'll want to use wall of stone allot, not for the pyramid but for the village that your workers live in, then you are going to want echoing spell (to almost double your wall of stones) and Ectoplasmic spell (so ghosts can't just walk through your pyramid).
A couple of spells you probably have not thought of are Mud to rock (use wall of stone to create a mold, fill it with mud and bam, turn it to stone. I recommend researching a wall of stone spell that creates beautiful marble for the veneer and another that creates more stone.
Move earth also allows you to reduce the surrounding earth to bedrock and should expose boulders you can use stone shape on, stone shape is something you should be casting almost as often as wall of stone.
A lyre of building will not replace your workforce but it will make their job easier, use it to clean your worksite, deal with emergencies and plant crops so your skilled workers can focus on the goal of building your mark on the world.
Also in the trap filled depths that is your pyramid don't forget to scribe some of the spells that have made you great on the walls for future generations in the secret chambers below.
A few Stone Golems to act like cranes and guard the site afterwards would not hurt either.
Let's say I'm a 20th level wizard. I have an Int of 30. What is the fastest way for me to build a pyramid the size of Great Pyramid of Giza? (Hint: This is 88.3 million cubic feet of stone.)
If I use all of my level 5 and up spell slots (27 of them) on Wall of Stone, it will take me 215 years to create a pyramid from scratch.
Using only the core rules, can anyone do it faster? Can anyone do it faster than the ancient Egyptians (~30 years)?
Like the copper dragon idea, you need a way to be able to use the spells at will...so craft a magic item that is "Use Activated" or "continuous" on the spell that gives the biggest cubic feet per casting.
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Let's say I'm a 20th level wizard. I have an Int of 30. What is the fastest way for me to build a pyramid the size of Great Pyramid of Giza? (Hint: This is 88.3 million cubic feet of stone.)
If I use all of my level 5 and up spell slots (27 of them) on Wall of Stone, it will take me 215 years to create a pyramid from scratch.
Using only the core rules, can anyone do it faster? Can anyone do it faster than the ancient Egyptians (~30 years)?
every 25 days you can gain another 5th level spell slot by creating pearls of power at a cost of 12,500 gold
or can spend 200 days making an item to cast it all day like Valandil Ancalime suggested... which means every 6 seconds you can create 5/12x5x5x20(208 +1/3)cu ft of stone. needing 42384 castings of stone wall from this object, would take 254304 seconds, or about 70.6 hours, just under 3 days, but if you're not a lich you probably want to rest and such, so we'll give you 8 hours sleep, 8 hours work day and 8 hours of "you" time
not including making your item, 9 days, and we don't need to enslave dragons to do it. Valandil Ancalime i think you win this one
I was trying to think of something clever with using create water, a decanter of endless water or control weather to make a massive quantity of mud, and then transmute mud to rock to make it all into rock, but got stuck on an effective way to mold the mud into blocks and move them into position.
Start in a place that has a solid rock ground. Assume that you will have infinite stone to work with (a very large area).
1. Transmute rock to mud (40000 ft^3 of mud per cast). Mud is simply soil/dirt with water in it. If you move the soil/dirt, the water will move too.
2. Move Earth (5625000 ft^3 of mud per cast). This will move the mud into position for cubes. You can move 140 40,000 cubes of mud per cast. The range for the spell is 840 ft, but you could use Enlarge Spell to double this range.
3. Greater Dispel Magic. From the transmute to rock to mud description:
The mud remains until a successful dispel magic or transmute mud to rock spell restores its substance—but not necessarily its form.
And for dispel magic:
You automatically succeed on your dispel check against any spell that you cast yourself.
The Giza pyramid is roughly 2,500,000 cubic meters or 88,286,666.75 ft^3. This will take you about 2208 casts of transmute rock to mud and 16 casts of move earth to get into position. You can probably fit 16 cubes within the area of a greater dispel magic (considering line of effect issues and the fact that you can put any part of a cube in the area and it would be dispelled). That comes down to 276 greater dispel magic casts. That's 2500 6th level spells or about 120 days of spellcasting (a little more than 17 weeks).
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you could probably skip a lot of the rock to mud casts by starting in a sandy area and buying a Decanter of Endless Water (3000), some Sovereign Glue (2400) and an Immovable Rod (5000). Simply glue the Decanter of Endless Water to the Immovable Rod and you can create 5 gallons of water a second anywhere, just go set that up in the middle of the desert and leave it for a few days, you should get plenty of mud that way. Although you'd need to cast mud to rock still at least you won't need to cast 276 greater dispels
you could probably skip a lot of the rock to mud casts by starting in a sandy area and buying a Decanter of Endless Water (3000), some Sovereign Glue (2400) and an Immovable Rod (5000). Simply glue the Decanter of Endless Water to the Immovable Rod and you can create 5 gallons of water a second anywhere, just go set that up in the middle of the desert and leave it for a few days, you should get plenty of mud that way. Although you'd need to cast mud to rock still at least you won't need to cast 276 greater dispels
No way that water can affect 40,000 ft^3.
you could probably skip a lot of the rock to mud casts by starting in a sandy area and buying a Decanter of Endless Water (3000), some Sovereign Glue (2400) and an Immovable Rod (5000). Simply glue the Decanter of Endless Water to the Immovable Rod and you can create 5 gallons of water a second anywhere, just go set that up in the middle of the desert and leave it for a few days, you should get plenty of mud that way. Although you'd need to cast mud to rock still at least you won't need to cast 276 greater dispelsNo way that water can affect 40,000 ft^3.
I did the math, thinking about freezing the water. If you use wall of stone to build a hollow pyramid of the right size (which takes about a year at 27 castings per day), it takes just over 1 year for a decanter of endless water (30 gallons per round version) to fill the pyramid.
I did the math, thinking about freezing the water. If you use wall of stone to build a hollow pyramid of the right size (which takes about a year at 27 castings per day), it takes just over 1 year for a decanter of endless water (30 gallons per round version) to fill the pyramid.
Don't forget evaporation!
I Truly and utterly wish that it were possible to create a Demiplane that's mud-filled, with a perfectly square Planar Portal. Just have a bunch of them churning out 10*10*10 cubes per 6 seconds, aided by gravity, instantly Rock-a-fied by either a mage or an intelligent item or enslaved creature... Then just go Minecraft on it. Arrange and build, using slaves as necessary.
Ah, of course! That would be soooo brilliant.
Actually, you could leave out arranging and moving rocks.
Just move that planar portal around (in an angular spiral way) above your building site, like the opening of a giant baker's icing bag (or of a giant concrete hose, but I prefer the other idea). Have your Dragon buddy cast Mud to Rock on what you spill out before it looses shape to much.
Of course, you could also make it a bit more elaborate: let the Dragon create the outer stone wall perimeter (and the inner ones for the rooms) for each layer, and fill that mold up with your planar concrete, with him transmuting it.
Regarding your other idea, that seems impractical. Of course, you could magically "chisel" your pyramid out of a mountain, but digging it out of the ground leads to its own set of problems.
You don't know if there are caves or ground water below or in your building site.
You'd actually have to dig under it to shape the base from below.
And even if you manage to move your pyramid up from that hole (could be done, letting the Create Pit spell ending effect do the work, but is complicated and you'd have to make sure your pyramid survives the procedure), you need to refill that hole afterwards... Easier to build it on a flat surface.
(Btw, Wraith. I didn't calculate anything. ;) )
I did the math, thinking about freezing the water. If you use wall of stone to build a hollow pyramid of the right size (which takes about a year at 27 castings per day), it takes just over 1 year for a decanter of endless water (30 gallons per round version) to fill the pyramid.Don't forget evaporation!
Right, this was for using the bound ice devil above to keep freezing it. It was an abandoned idea, the point is it takes a surprising amount of time to get that much water out of the decanter.
Bah, that's what I get trying to compute these things on an empty stomach.
The greater dispel magic idea is bad. I estimated you could get 16 cubes in, but I forgot that the transmute mud to rock route is 40 cubes affected. Thus, greater dispel magic wouldn't take 276 casts. . . you'd have to do 2208 casts of transmute mud to rock (which is the same level as greater dispel magic).
That comes out to 212 days for the level 20 wizard with 30 Int.
Oh, there is another thing that could help out *A LOT* -- pearls of power. If you had say 10 pearl of power (two spells), that would be 109 days.
Another thorn in this plan is the amount of time it takes the mud to dry out. If you need 212 days to cast all the transmute rock to muds, you'd have to do a move earth every 12.25 days. That means the mud can't dry out during that time. Maybe a control weather every few days to keep the mud wet? Adds on more time.
I'm sure it's possible to do it exactly within a year without using special items (or even pearls of power). It's just going to be pretty complicated. . .
Edit: Man, I did all my math assuming transmute mud/rock to rock/mud was 6th level (they're 5th level). *headache* So it would take around 165 days, not 212. There are probably plenty of cost saving mechanisms too. . .
would crafting a wand of any of these spells speed things along? - that would give you 50 shots of the spell quickly to be balanced with against the time needed to create the wand
The fastest is to go ahead and make a magic item usable at will. Actually, two.
Trowel of Brick-Making, Wall of Stone, CL 10, Cost 100,000 gp
Scepter of Brick Expanding, Polymorph Any Object, CL 20, Cost 320,000 gp
Then you and your simulacrum can build the pyramids in just under 7.36 hours.
Of course, you spent 420 days crafting the items required. (And by you, I mean your simulacrum in a demi-plane with accelerated time.)
But once you have it, you can build stuff at will. Roman armies built fortified camps everywhere they went. What if they could just build stone fortresses every night?
Need to wall off your city in a hurry? No problem.
Anyone want to figure out the volume for the Great Wall of China?
Ah, of course! That would be soooo brilliant.
Actually, you could leave out arranging and moving rocks.
Just move that planar portal around (in an angular spiral way) above your building site, like the opening of a giant baker's icing bag (or of a giant concrete hose, but I prefer the other idea). Have your Dragon buddy cast Mud to Rock on what you spill out before it looses shape to much.
Of course, you could also make it a bit more elaborate: let the Dragon create the outer stone wall perimeter (and the inner ones for the rooms) for each layer, and fill that mold up with your planar concrete, with him transmuting it.
^_^ As far "Planar Concrete" goes, the idea with getting your draggy to create a mold, then fill 'er up, is not a bad idea at all. You Could attempt to bargain with a GM that Since your plane is 'filled with water' ( Create Lesser Demiplane ), and Earth-Dominant Elemental ( Create Demiplane ), the result is a plane of endless mud, that loops upon itself thanks to its Shape. You place a planar portal at the bottom of that sucker, with an objective gravity (Or maybe only Normal Gravity is needed), and you've effectively got an Endless mud slide. Oh, and remember that the planar portal is a completely FIXED gate. Can't move that sucker; only dispel it.
Unfortunately, if your GM decides that the Shape does not actually convey this feature ( and there are, in fact, only 400,000 cubic feet of mud, that loops around itself )... Then this may not be worthwhile. Either way:
-6 hours for the Demiplane itself. *Be sure to include a 10*10*10 space Within the demiplane that you can cast in safely and unhindered, out of the way of mudslides*
-6 hours for the Portal
-4 hours for the Earth-Dominant element. (combines with Water-filled, for Mud, if the GM allows.)
However, several other castings and factors that may be made to make such a plane more Efficient, should the GM rule that the Plane does not have infinite water and earth
- Making your plane work on Double flowing time, and Enhanced magic, you can create Additional planar space at a rate of 440,000 cubic feet per 3 hours. By building you plane in the form of a Straight Column, headed upwards from gravity, with the Portal at the bottom and You in a little pocket beside it, no other features are necessary to get the mud out. (At an alarmingly fast rate.)
- Be Keenly Aware of when the first section of your Demiplane is about to end; Else, you might find yourself shunted to a new section, that needs an entirely new Portal. For Convenience, you may want to Permanency the first section.
- The Widen Spell metamagic *might* allow one to increase the total Volume of the demiplane, if you maange to find a rod or some item that can grant it to a level 9 spell without cost. Do note, however, that the fine print clearly states Area, not Volume, and by RAW shouldn't apply.
...Hope any of these rates help, in your planning!
Alternatively, if your GM Does allow for the "infinite mud" factor... Then, hell, a constant Heavy flow of mud from a 20 foot diamater hole is probably going to be the best tool you have so far; Each one is 16 hours to make, allowing Just enough time each day to take a full rest ( if you don't need that long to prepare your spells )
Invent 9th level spell that makes large stone blocks with limited shaping potential. I doubt many GMs would object to such a spell, especially if it had a casting time in the order of 10min or so.