| Martin Szongott |
Hi there,
Link: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier#TOC-Tactician-Ex-
I took with my Cavalier as Teamwork Feat Precise Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/precise-strike-combat-teamwork) but for me it's unclear how to play it correctly.
First, as a standard action I can grant this feat to all allies within 30 feet who can see and hear me. Allies retain the use of this bonus feat for 3 rounds plus 1 round for every two levels the cavalier possesses. Allies do not need to meet the prerequisites of these bonus feats. Okay, that's clear.
I can use this ability once per day at 1st level. Okay.
So, is it meant, that I may use Precise Strike every combat round (if my opponent is flanked) without using a standard action and only if I want to grant this feat to my allies too, I have to use a standard action and my allies may use this feat (at 1st lvl) for 3 rounds too?
| David Thomassen |
The Standard Action grants the Feat to your allies. For the next three rounds your allies can benefit from the feat, just as you can. You do not need to be in a flanking position to grant the feat.
Your flanking buddy would need the feat for you to gain its benefit without using the Tactician ability.
| Martin Szongott |
I am sorry, but I do not understand this.
The Standard Action grants the Feat to your allies. For the next three rounds your allies can benefit from the feat, just as you can. You do not need to be in a flanking position to grant the feat.
So, I must have the Teamwork Feat. And another ally must have the Teamwork Feat. And the advantage from Tactician is, I can grant my Teamwork Feat to other allies too, even if they do not have the Teamwork Feat, but in order that my Teamwork Feat works one of my allies must have this Teamwork Feat too. That sound's completely senseless for me. ^^
I: have the Teamwork Feat.
Ally A: has the Teamwork Feat.
Ally B: has it not.
Ally C: has it not.
So Ally A and I get the advantages from the Teamwork Feat all the time, because we two have it (of course, only if our opponent ist flanked from us). And through Tactician Ally B und Ally C get the feat advantages for 3 rounds too and that's of what Tactician stands for? Cannot believe that.
| David Thomassen |
You can use the Teamwork feat with ally A all the time. You can grant the Teamwork feat to Allies B & C for 3 rounds by taking a standard action.
Reason to use this - Allies B & C have got into position to use the teamwork feat. (Or A&B or A&C) For 3 rounds they gain the benefits of having the feat, such as improved damage from Precise Strike.
Allies B & C do not need to meet Prerequisites (Dex 13, base attack bonus +1. for Presice Strike) but do need meet the trigger requirements (Precise Strike"Benefit: Whenever you and an ally who also has this feat are flanking the same the creature..."
Helaman
|
So it's really the most useless ability that you can have... (Tactician)
Fair from it - the choices for the teamwork tactics mostly suck but the ability itself is solid.
I mean who REALLY wants to blow their feat buying something that ONLY works if one of their allies has it (and generally one thats close)? Generally, as Paizo have erred on the side of caution and made them pretty crappy as a rule, not a lot of people.
But if you have this you can grant a teamwork feat to any of your team in range for three rounds+
So precise strike - No rogue in the group? No worries, it gives everyone an opportunity to sneak attack flanked targets. There is a nifty shield one that gives +1 AC for adjacent allies... so the cav could be in the middle and be getting +2 AC, while his two mates either side get +1 AC (from the Cav)... its temoprary but can be useful
| Bart Vervaet |
Teamwork feats are pretty good in my opinion. But as the name says its all about teamwork.
Imagine two fighters both wielding kukris (or some other weapon with high crit range) with TWF, and both having combat reflexes and critical focus. If they both take seize the moment they could pretty much turn any opponent they flank in to a red mist in one or two rounds.
the same goes for two rogues with improved feint partner, especially when they also have precise strike.
there are several ombinations that can really increase damage output or defence of a party, but only if that party works as a team and invest their feats into teamwork feats
| Martin Szongott |
I mean who REALLY wants to blow their feat buying something that ONLY works if one of their allies has it (and generally one thats close)? Generally, as Paizo have erred on the side of caution and made them pretty crappy as a rule, not a lot of people.
That's my opinion too. So I simply have to drop this point from my character sheet. ^^
| Abraham spalding |
Helaman wrote:That's my opinion too. So I simply have to drop this point from my character sheet. ^^I mean who REALLY wants to blow their feat buying something that ONLY works if one of their allies has it (and generally one thats close)? Generally, as Paizo have erred on the side of caution and made them pretty crappy as a rule, not a lot of people.
Foolish decision -- you could have given those feats to people that don't already have them to use them with you -- such as:
Summoned creatures, other party members, NPCs, and other allies.
Then you would be able to use the feat with them since they now have it too -- this is especially useful with Outflank, Enfilading Fire, Escape Route, Pack Attack, or Shake It Off.
| Otm-Shank |
I am sorry, but I do not understand this.
David Thomassen wrote:The Standard Action grants the Feat to your allies. For the next three rounds your allies can benefit from the feat, just as you can. You do not need to be in a flanking position to grant the feat.
So, I must have the Teamwork Feat. And another ally must have the Teamwork Feat. And the advantage from Tactician is, I can grant my Teamwork Feat to other allies too, even if they do not have the Teamwork Feat, but in order that my Teamwork Feat works one of my allies must have this Teamwork Feat too. That sound's completely senseless for me. ^^
I: have the Teamwork Feat.
Ally A: has the Teamwork Feat.
Ally B: has it not.
Ally C: has it not.So Ally A and I get the advantages from the Teamwork Feat all the time, because we two have it (of course, only if our opponent ist flanked from us). And through Tactician Ally B und Ally C get the feat advantages for 3 rounds too and that's of what Tactician stands for? Cannot believe that.
I think you're misunderstanding things a little.
Tactician works like this :
You : have the teamwork feat
Allies A,B,C : don't have the teamwork feat
By spending the standard action, you grant Allies A,B and C the teamwork feat for 3 rounds so that now you all have it and then any two (or more) members of your group can gain the benefit from it.
If someone else in your group also happens to actually have the same teamwork feat as you then the two of you can use it at any time without first using tactician.
Starglim
|
Helaman wrote:That's my opinion too. So I simply have to drop this point from my character sheet. ^^I mean who REALLY wants to blow their feat buying something that ONLY works if one of their allies has it (and generally one thats close)? Generally, as Paizo have erred on the side of caution and made them pretty crappy as a rule, not a lot of people.
Are you no longer playing a cavalier, or using an archetype or house rule that trades away Tactician? The standard cavalier gets it as a class ability, in place of features that other, equivalent classes receive, and as part of this gets a teamwork feat as a free bonus (you can't trade this feat for anything else). If you don't want to allocate any other resources to improve it, that's a different matter.
| Martin Szongott |
I will play a Beast Rider or Gendarme. Depends on some questions which are unclear to me (see my other thread concerning mount stats).
At the moment I have made a Cavalier with Archetype Beast Rider. So therefore the character should get a teamwork feat, but because it's absolutely senseless (IMHO) and nobody in my roleplaying group will take a teamwork feat, I have dropped it for nothing else... it is only wasted time to think of which teamwork feat I would take. ^^ The advantage of any teamwork feat for me is... zero.
| Cheapy |
I will play a Beast Rider or Gendarme. Depends on some questions which are unclear to me (see my other thread concerning mount stats).
At the moment I have made a Cavalier with Archetype Beast Rider. So therefore the character should get a teamwork feat, but because it's absolutely senseless (IMHO) and nobody in my roleplaying group will take a teamwork feat, I have dropped it for nothing else... it is only wasted time to think of which teamwork feat I would take. ^^ The advantage of any teamwork feat for me is... zero.
But...you can give them access to the teamwork feat for a few rounds.
And then you can make use of it.
Precise Strike is a decent one. Outflank is phenomenal.
| Abraham spalding |
Ah sorry. ^^ So, Outflank is one I could not take (because Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +4 which I simply do not have). So I'll take Precise Strike.
I suggest shake it off for your first level teamwork feat.
You spend a standard action, so you and all your buddies around you get a bonus to all save throws equal to the number of people you got around you (max +4) that stacks with any other bonus to your saves you have.
That's simply amazing, especially at level 1.