Targeting deed. Aim for the legs.
If you hit (about 55% chance of that, given the full BAB and probably at least 18 dex and a +1 weapon), treerazer is knocked down.
And he can do nothing about it.
Right?
Targeting deed. Aim for the legs.
If you hit (about 55% chance of that, given the full BAB and probably at least 18 dex and a +1 weapon), treerazer is knocked down.
And he can do nothing about it.
Right?
If he rolls a natural 20, he'll probably do close to 100 damage anyways.
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Of course he can do something about it. He can fly.
If you somehow catch him on the ground and unprepared considering his constant true seeing and +38 Perception, then beat his +14 Initiative. Ok, you knock him down. He's only prone, no biggie. He simply uses Time Stop. Or less drastic, he simply greater teleports next to you and when you attempt to shoot him, reload or move away, he AoOs you with a mere -4 penalty to his +44 attack. Or he stands and moves 60 feet closer to you, which you are likely within. He also has 20 foot reach, so if you are within 80 feet of him you are likely to be paste on the next turn. Target again? It's a full round action, he goes prone and kills you anyway. Move away? AoO, good luck making the DC 72 Acrobatics check... remember 20s don't auto-succeed on skills!
Perhaps he uses antiplant shell on you? "I'm not a plant!" you declare, but did you make the DC 39 Fortitude save against his aura of corruption that makes you treated as a plant for the purposes of spells and effects that harm or otherwise inconvenience plant creatures? Good luck nat 20ing that save every round.
So yes, your 7th level gunslinger who managed to avoid the other terrors of the Tanglebriar and sneak up on Treerazer can knock him prone for 1 round. Who will sing of his glorious and brave deed?
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I suppose my point is that shouldn't this be a CMB check? Not an instant knock down?
I suppose my point is that shouldn't this be a CMB check? Not an instant knock down?
I see your point, but rules wise if there is no call for CMB check then it is not needed.
If you are asking from a verisimilitude point of view then having this moved to the another sub forum is the way to go.
Bleh. I'd sure as hell call for a CMB check in that case.
LOL.
yea, the other targetted shots all work the same way - arm shot is a disarm success with no CM check, head shot is a confuse effect with no save. It looks like it meant to parallele monk's stunning fist type effects, but monks' grant a save, these don't. All you need is a point of grit and a full round action, and a hit.
It's a bit of a mess though - how do you rationalise your personal strength having anyting to do with whether the bullet you fired from a gun trips someone, or shoots a weapon out of their hand? (or how does a bullet merely knock someone down in the first place?)
Bleh. I'd sure as hell call for a CMB check in that case.
Ah hah, my ploy to summon the great beast himself worked!
Does my 27 hit his touch AC? If so, I have felled Treerazer!
...or if you aimed for his head he might even attack himself. Yea, a lot of that stuff with gunslingers seems to cross the line from fantasy to silly.
Tiiiiiiiiimmmmmmberrrrr!
The Skirmisher ranger has some similar abilites. Tangling attack can make them entangled, and rattling strike can make them shaken.
...or if you aimed for his head he might even attack himself. Yea, a lot of that stuff with gunslingers seems to cross the line from fantasy to silly.
I can't decide if this is an oversight, or martials getting Nice Stuff.
Not to be 'that guy' .. but...
And if the said ranger has a Camel animal companion, if it spits him, he's sickened.
just one more reason the gunslinger is next to unplayable as written, thankfully I think it a great concept worthy of fixing, so I did so for my homegames and recreated it pretty much from the ground up and am quite happy with how it turned out.
...or if you aimed for his head he might even attack himself. Yea, a lot of that stuff with gunslingers seems to cross the line from fantasy to silly.
Nah.
I'm immune to mind affecting effects, so no worries there.
just one more reason the gunslinger is next to unplayable as written, thankfully I think it a great concept worthy of fixing, so I did so for my homegames and recreated it pretty much from the ground up and am quite happy with how it turned out.
Did you post it up in Homebrew?
yea, the other targetted shots all work the same way - arm shot is a disarm success with no CM check, head shot is a confuse effect with no save. It looks like it meant to parallele monk's stunning fist type effects, but monks' grant a save, these don't. All you need is a point of grit and a full round action, and a hit.
It's a bit of a mess though - how do you rationalise your personal strength having anyting to do with whether the bullet you fired from a gun trips someone, or shoots a weapon out of their hand? (or how does a bullet merely knock someone down in the first place?)
I would think that something like this could easily fall under dexterity instead of strength for the check - all about the accuracy of the shot. Think hitting kneecaps or elbows.
Personally I love the idea of being able to mix guns and a class for guns into my campaigns, as I like all things steampunk - and I can't imagine a steampunk type game without them. However, until they are balanced with everything else, I have to wait.
I really dislike building my own things and then having everyone else playing out of the rulebooks - so I often prohibit 'homebrew' things in my games...but this is one of those things I'm seriously considering as an exception to that.
yea, the other targetted shots all work the same way - arm shot is a disarm success with no CM check, head shot is a confuse effect with no save. It looks like it meant to parallele monk's stunning fist type effects, but monks' grant a save, these don't. All you need is a point of grit and a full round action, and a hit.
It's a bit of a mess though - how do you rationalise your personal strength having anyting to do with whether the bullet you fired from a gun trips someone, or shoots a weapon out of their hand? (or how does a bullet merely knock someone down in the first place?)
As an aside, note that if some kind of resistance check is allowed, or another check forced, you are doing this to a simple Combat Manuever:
1. Requiring a full-round attack
2. While using the character's primary (limited) resource
3. Requiring an attack roll
4. Then requiring ANOTHER attack roll (at a difficulty that bypasses every bonus of your class)
If a fighter (who's primary 'resource' is hp) were to be forced to take a full round, spend 20 hp, and attack twice simply to land a hit, the forum would be up in arms I'd think.
While it may seem somewhat wonky, it's not exactly something that can be done infinitely, nor is it something that cannot be defended with some form of magic, and 'logically' speaking it fits as well -- in the early days of firearms, a grazing shot to the leg is entirely likely to trip something, even a powerful demon lord who has had 1,000 years to get used to warriors with swords, but not even 1,000 seconds to consider the concept of Alkenstar Firearms.
As a homebrew, I'd definitely rule it can only happen once per creature per encounter, regardless of how much Grit you have. I wish the Errata Team luck on this one! =)
just one more reason the gunslinger is next to unplayable as written, thankfully I think it a great concept worthy of fixing, so I did so for my homegames and recreated it pretty much from the ground up and am quite happy with how it turned out.Did you post it up in Homebrew?
nope, but I'll rectify that shortly