So level 10 is the first time you can use CR 4 oozes, like the Gray Ooze mentioned in the description. At level 10, does it help you to be able to summon a CR 4 monster with a +6 slam and only 50 HP?
AC 5? So basically the bad guy is pretty much guaranteed to hit it unless he rolls a 1.
I don't know about you, but in the games I play, even minibosses at 10th level would probably chew that critter up like a jello pudding snack.
Probably the Ochre Jelly is a better bet, but that's a CR 5, and you would presumably need Heighten Spell (if that works on extracts) to summon one below 13th level. And even if you do that (having now spent a discovery and a feat that seems otherwise pretty useless to alchemists), you're using a top-level extract to summon this thing that does a LOT less damage per round than a bomb.
There are some interesting loopholes, like the Gray Ooze's immunity to fire and cold, (good against bad guys that only deal those kinds of damage?) and the Slithering Tracker looks a little more intimidating than the Gray Ooze in the right circumstances. But all in all, this seems like it's mostly good for gobbling up minions, and why would you waste your higher slots on that?
I'd like to hear from people that have taken this discovery and used it in combat. Is it worth it? Was it at all effective?
Does anyone else think this is way underpowered?
Like, the extract could maybe be one spell (sorry, formula) level less than the CR. Or if the ooze got bonus hit die or just hit points based on Alchemist level. Or if the things acted like they were affected by "augment summoning" without needing the feat. Or if the CR could be improved by spending extra time on it. Or if the CR could be increased by your intel modifier. Or if you had to choose your oozes when you take the discovery, and the total CR can only add up to 7.
At first glance, the discover is intriguing - is there something I'm missing about oozes? I know you can't crit or sneak them; is there something else I'm missing?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Alchemists need suboptimal choices so that they don't take over Golarion.
Yeah, the Vivisectionist already took over the Rogue's job... and he can use extracts... and discoveries are stronger than rogue talents. That's enough love for the Alchemist. :P
I don't know, because it's awesome?
Imagine an evil alchemist placing a few of these around a market place, and waiting for them to shatter open. He has Remote Detonate and chooses an energy type the oozes are immune to, so he gets a huge explosion, then a bunch of oozes that the first responders need to deal with.
Or using a bard using Beguiling Gift after his alchemist buddy gave him the infusion. Bam, whoever failed the save is now drinking an ooze.
Oozes don't go down smooth.
|
Hey, if I could summon a Gelatinous Cube as a 3rd level spell I sure as heck would.
It's paralysis DC is pretty high, so it can just roam towards things and try to engulf them, hoping they fail the reflex save.
Plus you shouldn't judge a optional class ability as something that will only get used against appropriately CR'ed opponents either.
I'm sure people can find uses for having them, even if one of the big ones is just how cool it is to have the oozes on your side for once.
Its nice in an evil party with infusion
Alchemist: Here, drink this.
Schmuck: What is it?
Alchemist: Potion of cure light wounds
Schmuck: sweet! *gulp, is cured*
Alchemist: Here, drink this.
Schmuck: What is it?
Alchemist: Potion of Cat's grace
Schmuck: sweet! *gets all dexterous*
Alchemist: Here, drink this.
Schmuck: What is it?
Alchemist: Potion of Enlarge person
Schmuck: Ick.. it tastes like socks.... *cue scene from alien as the ooze bursts out of his stomach*
Still nothing from people who have actually taken it?
You know I was just looking at this for my Alchemist and I'm slightly tempted to actually take it and here's why.
Just as a raw use with none of the fancy thing I'm going to suggest a CR3 Gelatinous Cube is what we call in the business and area denial weapon.
sure a DC12 ref save means no problems not being engulfed but It's a large creature, you can't move through its space without becoming engulfed and pinned. throw this where you don't want your enemy to be e.g. throw this into an open door that enemies are entering from. They can't just bypass it or tumble past they have to deal with it.
But add a little creative thinking and a little GM approval and this starts getting interesting.
Take your good ole Large CR3 Gelatinous Cube , add the giant template +1CR, its now a HUGE Gelatinous Cube CR4, denying even more space. Throw this an an enemy with the back to a wall and there is no space they can DC12 ref save into.
Throw on the Advanced Template, importantly paralysis save DC just went up to DC22 which aint half bad, they're now CR5
And if your GM is really generous add the Giant template a second time your now at the CR6 Max and your Gelatinous cube is Gargantuan ! and its got 74HP instead of 50, sure thats not hard to kill but it can be if you r inside it.
Plus things can get interesting if you combine with force bombs and tangle foot bombs. oh your stuck to the floor and prone ? The cube rolls over you !
And besides Gelatinous Cubes are just friggin cool to have on your side , they're intimidating as hell for anyone they're sliding towards
I'd say pull an old trick from 3.x and turn the gelatinous cube into a mount. All you need is acid immunity, oxygen, and a way to telepathically control it, and bam suddenly you've got a sweet ride.
I'd say pull an old trick from 3.x and turn the gelatinous cube into a mount. All you need is acid immunity, oxygen, and a way to telepathically control it, and bam suddenly you've got a sweet ride.
except you'll end up naked after it slowly eats your gear
I'd say pull an old trick from 3.x and turn the gelatinous cube into a mount. All you need is acid immunity, oxygen, and a way to telepathically control it, and bam suddenly you've got a sweet ride.except you'll end up naked after it slowly eats your gear
Which is bad for an alchemist.
More importantly, that's a long way to go just to ride on your gelatinous cube that you can't control for 10 rounds. Or 8, if you take it right away. How would you go about telepathically controlling something with no INT that's immune to mind effects?
I'm so dang curious to see how well this works that I did decide to take it. Tomorrow I get to play it, so we'll see how it goes.
Thanks, Phasics, all.
I weighed this issue too for my alchemist but decided I want to take this down the pike--to summon gelatinous cubes and such on enemy squares. Especially enemy spellcasters. It seems to me the various immunities oozes have go a long way to stymieing those who aren't prepared with the right spells or equipment; a well chosen ooze can be trouble well beyond its CR.
I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out for you joey, so keep us informed.
I'd say pull an old trick from 3.x and turn the gelatinous cube into a mount. All you need is acid immunity, oxygen, and a way to telepathically control it, and bam suddenly you've got a sweet ride.except you'll end up naked after it slowly eats your gear
Which won't happen if you are magically protected from acid.
I don't know, because it's awesome?
I was going to post exactly this, and then I saw I didn't have to.
And seriously, people need a compelling mechanical reason to take Bottled Ooze?
I wouldn't.