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Quilted Cloth "This enhanced form of padded armor has internal layers specifically designed to trap arrows, bolts, darts, shuriken, thrown daggers, and other small ranged piercing weapons. When these kinds of weapons strike you, they tend to become snagged in these layers and fail to harm you.
Benefit: You gain DR 3/— against attacks of this kind (small piercing weapons). The special layers of the armor have no effect on other kinds of weapons."
So yes, it does work, as the bullet is a small ranged piercing weapon.
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The bullet isn't a small ranged piercing weapon, it is a medium ammunition dealing piercing AND bludgeoning damage. But they look also a lot like "arrows, bolts, darts, etc".
I believe this is the only weapon dealing two kinds of damage at the same time, and I guess I would simply allow the cloth to work against bullets too.
If this is something someone really wants, I would just make it a new item that costs the same and only has the DR vs bullets...not arrows or daggers or what have you.
Amazing Gnorman's Bullet Proof Vest!
Since bite does B, P and S would a quilted cloth protect against a paladin throwing rabid chihuahuas at you?
Yes. But so would the paladin.
The bullet isn't a small ranged piercing weapon, it is a medium ammunition dealing piercing AND bludgeoning damage. But they look also a lot like "arrows, bolts, darts, etc".
I believe this is the only weapon dealing two kinds of damage at the same time, and I guess I would simply allow the cloth to work against bullets too.
Actually, by that logic, arrows and bolts aren't small, ranged, piercing weapons either, as they are both medium ammunition from medium attacks. Neither a bullet nor an arrow is the size of a person. That said, I admit that neither arrows nor bolts deal bludgeoning, but they do deal piercing and are included in the very description of "small ranged piercing weapons", ergo they are likely included. Unless, of course, there is a very specific reading of "size", as in the "small" size category... in which case the vast majority of arrows, bolts, darts, and the like would not be small, but diminutive. Ammunition, however, is clearly intended. What cloth armor doesn't give an advantage against is ranged weapons like javelins or spears. It also doesn't give advantage against things like siege engines (which are far too large). Saying that quilted cloth armor provides that protection also makes a certain amount of sense, although it's not perfect, simply by comparing bullet proof vests today (although these also use cavlar plates). One of the things about plate armor was that it was often made obsolete by bullets which simply went through it, however by adding a quilted cloth (underneath the armor) it became much more effective. This was a major reason for removing helmets, as they simply stopped being as effective against "hand-cannons". Eventually weapons reduced in size, and helmets were discovered to be effective again, but it took a while.
Personally, I'd house rule that the DR counts against half the damage, as a bullet does both bludgeoning and piercing. Depending on what was listed first (bludgeoning or piercing) I'd weigh in as that's the primary form of damage, and thus split the three that way. So, for example, if it listed the damage as (B, P) I'd say that 2/3 of the damage is bludgeoning and 1/3 is piercing. Padded armor would still usually be enough to block 3 damage from an incoming bullet (as its damage would likely be more than three), however sometimes it would matter! For example, if a gun ever did three damage, the padded armor would only absorb 1 of that (the piercing).
Sounds good to me. Kevlar is essentially really fancy cloth armor (it's made of woven fibers).
I would say no- bullets and arrows function radically differently. Also, the piercing+bludgeoning point raised by others.
... touch attacks bypass <snip> DR...
Uh, I don't see that here or here. Do you have a quote?
Spells that utilize touch AC often bypass damage reduction, but that's because they use energy types, not because they're touch attacks. It does bypass armor bonuses to AC (unless it's a force effect), though.
EDIT:
Sounds good to me. Kevlar is essentially really fancy cloth armor (it's made of woven fibers).
Also, thanks for correcting my spelling mistake. I really couldn't believe that I'd written that later. Guh. This, however, is also really cool, as I don't know much about Kevlar and didn't realize that it was made of woven fibers.
One final thing: I would retract my house rule above. While I thought I was being clever, as I've thought about it, the point another posted above really sunk in: the damage reduction is "DR/-" (emphasis on the "-") against ranged piercing weapons (which ammunition in the form of bolts and arrows is shown being considered "weapons" of the appropriate size for this purpose), not "DR/bludgeoning or slashing". That means that as long as the the weapon or ammunition deals slashing damage, the damage reduction applies fully. It really wouldn't matter how you parsed what damage, because the "DR 3/-" would apply to any ranged weapon dealing an attack.
Hrm, turns out many layers of cloth will slow down or outright stop a black powder bullet.
Historical precedent is good enough for me, hopefully it will be good enough for my GM.
woah.....science wins over snark! ;)
Checked out Ned Kelly's plough blade armor too......
96 lbs.....
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I wouldn't allow it until explicitly overruled by game-text.
-- Historical pistol duels were often fought with both contestants stripped to the waist because the most agonizing way to die as the result of a duel was not from an immediately lethal wound, but rather a festering infection caused by shredded bits of bacteria-laden clothing dragged into the wound, the result of which was gangrene.
... touch attacks bypass <snip> DR...Uh, I don't see that here or here. Do you have a quote?Actually if you click on the second link, and click on the damage reduction link in that link it will take you to a more in depth explanation where it says "Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains. Nor does it affect poisons or diseases delivered by inhalation, ingestion, or contact."
But I'll try to find a page number in the core rulebook.
Edit: The page is 561 in the book but it is the same wording as in the link, but another point. Even if touch attacks [don't] bypass DR, I don't see how DR would help against touch attacks in this instance seeing as how it is granted from armor, which there is no question that a touch attack bypasses.
[edited as you would have wished]
Thank you! That's a very good thing to know!
It's an interesting point, however I'm not entirely sure that I agree with the ruling. That said, that's a very interesting link. It seems more like when it was talking about not-negating touch attacks, it was allowing rider effects (such as stunning or poisoning) to pass through DR, as it was specifically speaking in regards to such effects, mentioning that negates them, then noting that it didn't negate touch attacks.
That said, I completely understand your ruling and mine is the loser in the "clear and straightforward" interpretation.
Also, as far as why it would work if touch bypassed armor, it's for the same reason the arrows work as DR even when they get past the armor. It would be the armor bonus that is ignored, not the other properties. Like a brilliant energy weapon that deals fire damage against armor that grants fire resistance. The fire damage is resisted, while the the armor's AC bonus ignored.
Anyhoo, thanks again!
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Historical pistol duels were often fought with both contestants stripped to the waist because the most agonizing way to die as the result of a duel was not from an immediately lethal wound, but rather a festering infection caused by shredded bits of bacteria-laden clothing dragged into the wound, the result of which was gangrene.Yes but this is a world where supernatural entities exist and grant mortals the ability to heal diseases with words.
Yes, and that's exactly what they would do if some dumbass forgot to take his should-be-useless cloth armor off before engaging in a pistol duel.
(Pistol duels were commonly fought "to the blood"; meaning both contestants often survived. Aside from the gangrene specter, duelists stripped to keep their fashionable outer-clothes from being ruined by bulletholes.)