Greetings!
I am on the horns of a dilemma.
I have a duelist who has an heirloom weapon (Aldori.) He is making overtures to the wizard to upgrade it. The current request is simple +1 enchantment. However, he says he wants to perhaps add fire or some other feature to the weapon.
I am torn on allowing this. First off, let me say, it is rare I disallow anything the players want to do. I figure I can work it behind the screen without them knowing if it causes an issue. I want them to be invested and love their characters. So I am not a "No" gm.
My problem is more story based, not rules. If you start altering an heirloom, an antique, is it still the same weapon? If I got an antique table from my great, great grandmother and then sanded it down, painted it purple and sawed the legs off, does it still have the same qualities?
On the other hand, there have been stories (I remember one in the Forgotten Realms) where each time a weapon was passed down it gained a new trait. Something unique to the wielder.
So I am unsure how to proceed. It doesn't help the player got in my face about it, even after I simply asked for a couple days to study on it.
Any suggestions or thoughts?
No suggestioins, but some bad news.
You did see the recent errata to this trait right?
The trait now is useless once you need to start using magic weapons, as the weapon given is no-longer masterwork!
No suggestioins, but some bad news.
You did see the recent errata to this trait right?The trait now is useless once you need to start using magic weapons, as the weapon given is no-longer masterwork!
First off you now have a wonderful 1st level spell to make it masterwork for only 300g.
Second yes it is meant to be upgraded i know its kinda wonky but if the player can't upgrade the weapon its pointless for them to even have it.
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Also, I reserve the right to be wrong and/or sleepy through this post. But enough of the off-topic-ness.
There is nothing by RAW that says a weapon must be physically altered to gain a magic property. A caster simply says some magic chants, throws some material components at it, and the deed is done (over time, but nonetheless.) It can look identical to Granny's Ol' Rat-Stabber, except that when the wielder says "OHNOARAT," the blade bursts into a blazing version of its old self.
I do want to state that he DID recieve a MASTERWORK weapon. That means it functions BETTER than normal swords. If it were truly an antique, I would think it would be dulled, worn-out, and quite the opposite from "+1 to hit."
Another note: A weapon must be at least a +1 before being able to apply Flaming or any other enhancement to it. So no Flaming right off the bat, unless he's going for a +2 boostie.
Thanks for all the input guys!
Where do you get the errata information from?
It doesn't seem fair to go back and change the weapon, since that information was not out there when he built the character.
No suggestioins, but some bad news.
You did see the recent errata to this trait right?The trait now is useless once you need to start using magic weapons, as the weapon given is no-longer masterwork!
Yes, by raw you are correct. Some of us however had characters built before the errata and would rather not deal with the headache of it.
No suggestioins, but some bad news.
You did see the recent errata to this trait right?The trait now is useless once you need to start using magic weapons, as the weapon given is no-longer masterwork!
First off you now have a wonderful 1st level spell to make it masterwork for only 300g.
Second yes it is meant to be upgraded i know its kinda wonky but if the player can't upgrade the weapon its pointless for them to even have it.
YAY! Didn't know that. Trait is alright now as a trait.
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YAY! Didn't know that. Trait is alright now as a trait.No suggestioins, but some bad news.
You did see the recent errata to this trait right?The trait now is useless once you need to start using magic weapons, as the weapon given is no-longer masterwork!
First off you now have a wonderful 1st level spell to make it masterwork for only 300g.
Second yes it is meant to be upgraded i know its kinda wonky but if the player can't upgrade the weapon its pointless for them to even have it.
No..Its not because you have to rely on a caster to make your awesome granpappy's sword usable...otherwise its useless (its also dependent on you GM allowing UM) and in PFS your just screwed... seriously this is why I hated so many people complaining about something that wasnt overpowered and thus paizo nerfing it to oblivion ... heck you can get UMD as a trait and noone whined over that..
No..Its not because you have to rely on a caster to make your awesome granpappy's sword usable...otherwise its useless (its also dependent on you GM allowing UM) and in PFS your just screwed... seriously this is why I hated so many people complaining about something that wasnt overpowered and thus paizo nerfing it to oblivion ... heck you can get UMD as a trait and noone whined over that..YAY! Didn't know that. Trait is alright now as a trait.No suggestioins, but some bad news.
You did see the recent errata to this trait right?The trait now is useless once you need to start using magic weapons, as the weapon given is no-longer masterwork!
First off you now have a wonderful 1st level spell to make it masterwork for only 300g.
Second yes it is meant to be upgraded i know its kinda wonky but if the player can't upgrade the weapon its pointless for them to even have it.
I agree, but at least there is an option. I agree that it should have at least been masterwork weapon to start.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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My problem is more story based, not rules. If you start altering an heirloom, an antique, is it still the same weapon? If I got an antique table from my great, great grandmother and then sanded it down, painted it purple and sawed the legs off, does it still have the same qualities?
On the other hand, there have been stories (I remember one in the Forgotten Realms) where each time a weapon was passed down it gained a new trait. Something unique to the wielder.
SKR introduced me to the Grandfather's Axe paradox. enjoy!
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Actually, at least in PFS, it's been changed.
Now, it has to be martial, it's not masterworked, and gives you one of 3 things:
*+2 CMB
*weapon profiency with that specific weapon
*I forgot the 3rd, as those are the two people use :).
It's no longer the broken weapon focus + proficiency + free masterwork trait everyone took. It's still very good for a maneuver specialist.
In a home campaign you can make it masterwork by spell, and from there it can be magi cked. There has been no ruling (to my knowledge) in PFS, though I believe people are doing it right now.
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Actually, at least in PFS, it's been changed.
Now, it has to be martial, it's not masterworked, and gives you one of 3 things:
*+2 CMB
*weapon profiency with that specific weapon
*I forgot the 3rd, as those are the two people use :).It's no longer the broken weapon focus + proficiency + free masterwork trait everyone took. It's still very good for a maneuver specialist.
In a home campaign you can make it masterwork by spell, and from there it can be magi cked. There has been no ruling (to my knowledge) in PFS, though I believe people are doing it right now.
Before you complain about broken....Rich parents... Second it was broken as much as archtypes to be good with a certain weapon was broken or wielding a polearm in one hand is broken..It was no where near Wizard broken so the nerf came from kneejerking...as it was the only trait that could become useless if taken or broken.. And still you are only Proficient with one weapon and it must now be martial or simple...lame
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I guess by "broken" I mean it was slightly better than a feat that is widely taken (weapon focus) and stacks with such. Usually it was just +1, for sword-and-boarders it was a free bastard sword prof as well, for people bad at math they got a large bastard sword because rolling 2d8+6 at first looks cool. Even for support classes it was a whip/net with +1 to hit. This is more than a trait (priced as half a feat) should do for you.
So strictly, it was just better than a trait (or even a feat) should be, which was powerful enough for the errata.
Thanks for all the input guys!
Where do you get the errata information from?
It doesn't seem fair to go back and change the weapon, since that information was not out there when he built the character.
A new printing of Adventurer's Armory was just released a couple of weeks ago, so anyone buying a 2nd printing of the book will only have the changed version of Heirloom Weapon to go by. If you have a 1st printing of the book, you can go here and download the errata for it and read all about the changes.
So basically, if you are playing strictly by the rules, only the updated version is legit, but if your GM allows house rules, check and see if the old version will still be allowed.
Also, in case you do not have the chance to download the errata right now, here is the relevant text:
Page 30—Replace the Heirloom Weapon entry
with the following text: “Heirloom Weapon: You
carry a non-masterwork simple or martial weapon
that has been passed down from generation to
generation in your family (pay the standard gp cost
for the weapon). When you select this trait, choose
one of the following benefits: proficiency with
that specific weapon, a +1 trait bonus on attacks
of opportunity with that specific weapon, or a +2
trait bonus on one kind of combat maneuver when
using that specific weapon.”
Assuming you are not playing PFS and are not going to use the errata'd trait, here are my thoughts.
I am in the same situation BTW, I created a character for a home game before the errata, and we've decided to ignore it.
The whole point of the heirloom weapon being masterwork is so you can upgrade it, so you can use the same weapon for the entire game if you want, and you dont lose it or something.
If it's not masterwork (and before the presto-masterwork spell existed), there would be absolutely no point in this trait and even flavour wise it would make no sense. I mean, your father gives you his sword, passed down from generation to generation, and it's no good to you after a few levels? lame!
So yes, I'd say magic up that weapon :)
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The level 1 wizard spell to masterwork something was tailor-made for that scenario, so he's even good with the errata.
It is still a phenomenal trait btw; +2 CMB is fantastic. It's just not as silly as it was.
You do realize there are many traits that are flat out better than most feats (associated with them) and flat out do the same thing as Heirloom weapon did? Rich Parents gave you 900 gold at level 1, many of the Skill traits make the skill a class skill and add +1 to it that stacks with skill focus and other skill boosting feats & abilities ; +'s to saves or retrys; one improves your AC or Bonuses to hit with swords and guess what? Almost all of them can never be taken away from you and in the case of one.. (Rich parents) was a temporary boon you could actually afford (hehe) to have gone.... But if you lost your Heirloom weapon or anything happened at all to it..you were eff'ed. Because the trait didnt make you proficient with all weapons of that type..
On a serious note the only thing people really complained about was the OMG superpowerful +1 to hit....which if they simply got rid of to make those people happy things would have been ok