Your oracle levels count towards your oracle's curse at a 1:1 ratio.
Other class levels you have count at a 2:1 ratio.
Thus, 1 level of oracle counts as 1, and 8 levels of barbarian are cut in half to be 4.
Thus you have 5 levels for the purpose of your oracle's curse.
A thought I just had:
What's the action on a transformative weapon? It just says it shifts on command. I'm thinking this would be a free action, then?
Or is there another thing in the CRB that gives a specific outline on how long it'd take.
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AC10+2(max dex)+3(belt)+8 (Mithral do-maru chest, with scale limbs)+5(amulet)+5(ring)+5(enhancement)+4(beast totem)-6(reckless abandon)-2(rage)+1(Dusty Ioun Stone)=35 when raging and 31 with Come and get me.
If your barbarian is going to have, at maximum best, an AC of 35 at 20th level, you shouldn't waste a single penny on it aside from it being a bare chassis upon which to hang Slick, Fortification and DR enhancements.
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Well, if you're not a dwarf and you're looking at it analytically as a 20th-level build, then I suppose there's an argument to be made for "'much' better".Superstition actually makes you less likely to die.This. You can actually make your saves much better with superstichin'.
One lovely thing my Barbarian did is ping out of rage as a free action whenever he needed healing, negated the fatigue through some means, and then keep goign as soon as he got it.
The metagamy grossness of this is so profound that many DMs will just beat you with the CRB for even daring to suggest it.
(Note that this only works if the ally cleric has readied to cast during your turn, and has some means to determine when your rage has ended. Naturally, it also only works when you haven't taken so much damage that you immediately drop unconscious when you end your rage.)
AC10+2(max dex)+3(belt)+8 (Mithral do-maru chest, with scale limbs)+5(amulet)+5(ring)+5(enhancement)+4(beast totem)-6(reckless abandon)-2(rage)+1(Dusty Ioun Stone)=35 when raging and 31 with Come and get me.If your barbarian is going to have, at maximum best, an AC of 35 at 20th level, you shouldn't waste a single penny on it aside from it being a bare chassis upon which to hang Slick, Fortification and DR enhancements.
Agreed. Just grab some +1 mithril breastplate and slap on Heavy Fortification, and some energy resistance. Maybe bump the enhancement bonus another one or two after that, but only do that if you have nothing better to spend the money on.
Why slick? It does not work with Str Surge so I see it as a waste because you will prefer to grapple check out of a grapple instead of escape artist.
How would you bump DR with your armor? It does not stack with your native DR. Know something I don't?
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Why slick? It does not work with Str Surge so I see it as a waste because you will prefer to grapple check out of a grapple instead of escape artist.If you're an Urban archetype, you're going the DEX route.
How would you bump DR with your armor? It does not stack with your native DR. Know something I don't?
Well, you might have forfeited DR for an archetype, or multiclassed away to fighter before you got it.
Is the Dex route really viable with a barbarian? Most of the powers (that enhance making things ouch) seem to favor a high Strength 2-handed weapon build.
AC10+2(max dex)+3(belt)+8 (Mithral do-maru chest, with scale limbs)+5(amulet)+5(ring)+5(enhancement)+4(beast totem)-6(reckless abandon)-2(rage)+1(Dusty Ioun Stone)=35 when raging and 31 with Come and get me.If your barbarian is going to have, at maximum best, an AC of 35 at 20th level, you shouldn't waste a single penny on it aside from it being a bare chassis upon which to hang Slick, Fortification and DR enhancements.
I agree. Which is why some time ago, I asked for suggestions to up his AC and sadly got no response. I would like to get it higher and the only thing I can think of is a Dancing Shield.
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Is the Dex route really viable with a barbarian? Most of the powers (that enhance making things ouch) seem to favor a high Strength 2-handed weapon build.
Agile weapon enhancement + Piranha Strike. Only less optimal if you need Power Attack for a follow-up feat (i.e., Cleave, etc). You can actually make a non-sneak two-weapon fighter who doesn't suck now.
Agile weapon enhancement + Piranha Strike. Only less optimal if you need Power Attack for a follow-up feat (i.e., Cleave, etc). You can actually make a non-sneak two-weapon fighter who doesn't suck now.
I know you can with other classes, but barbarians seemed to be pretty pushed for strength with class abilities (rage giving strength, or urban but then losing the con, lots of rage powers designed to work with single strikes, etc.) and without getting bonus feats to pick up the TWF stuff it seems like it'd be tough. Huh...I'll hafta look into that.
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Agile weapon enhancement + Piranha Strike. Only less optimal if you need Power Attack for a follow-up feat (i.e., Cleave, etc). You can actually make a non-sneak two-weapon fighter who doesn't suck now.I know you can with other classes, but barbarians seemed to be pretty pushed for strength with class abilities (rage giving strength, or urban but then losing the con, lots of rage powers designed to work with single strikes, etc.) and without getting bonus feats to pick up the TWF stuff it seems like it'd be tough. Huh...I'll hafta look into that.
The primary reason why barbarians need a boatload of CON is because they're easier to hit than a beached whale.
DEX-raging via Urban also alleviates you of the need for Raging Vitality (which frees up a feat slot). The loss of will-save bump is irksome, but offset by making elf and halfling TWF barbarians viable.
The primary reason why barbarians need a boatload of CON is because they're easier to hit than a beached whale.
DEX-raging via Urban also alleviates you of the need for Raging Vitality (which frees up a feat slot). The loss of will-save bump is irksome, but offset by making elf and halfling TWF barbarians viable.
Dex raging frees up the need for Raging Vitality? Because of the AC boost you mean? Sorry, I've never actually played a barbarian before, this thread just kinda piqued my interest. >_> <_<
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When a barbarian rages, he normally receives additional hitpoints due to his CON score going up; if his rage ends due to him falling unconscious, his hitpoint score is immediately lowered by his level x2 (i.e., his "rage" CON went from 18 back down to 14) -- which means that around 6th or 7th level he can "auto-kill himself" if he ever falls unconscious. The feat Raging Vitality permits rage to continue while unconscious (which essentially means that every barbarian gets it at some point). An urban-archetype barbarian's "controlled rage" only pumps up one physical stat, however; you don't get the extra hitpoints -- but then you don't have to worry about the insta-dead problem either.
When a barbarian rages, he normally receives additional hitpoints due to his CON score going up; if his rage ends due to him falling unconscious, his hitpoint score is immediately lowered by his level x2 (i.e., his "rage" CON went from 18 back down to 14) -- which means that around 6th or 7th level he can "auto-kill himself" if he ever falls unconscious. The feat Raging Vitality permits rage to continue while unconscious (which essentially means that every barbarian gets it at some point). An urban-archetype barbarian's "controlled rage" only pumps up one physical stat, however; you don't get the extra hitpoints -- but then you don't have to worry about the insta-dead problem either.
Ah, ok. I wasn't even looking at the unconscious part, just the +2 Con while raging (extra extra HP as it were).
AC10+2(max dex)+3(belt)+8 (Mithral do-maru chest, with scale limbs)+5(amulet)+5(ring)+5(enhancement)+4(beast totem)-6(reckless abandon)-2(rage)+1(Dusty Ioun Stone)=35 when raging and 31 with Come and get me.If your barbarian is going to have, at maximum best, an AC of 35 at 20th level, you shouldn't waste a single penny on it aside from it being a bare chassis upon which to hang Slick, Fortification and DR enhancements.
I suppose with celestial Fullplate (and a Tome of Dex+2)
we could get the AC up to 37 raging/reckless abandon and 33 with come and get me.Probably still need a Dancing Shield though.
A balor has a chance to miss with it's iterative attacks with that AC. A pit fiend, who doesn't have iterative attacks, probably isn't missing. I suppose AC for a barb matters on if you are facing weapons, or natural attacks.
When a barbarian rages, he normally receives additional hitpoints due to his CON score going up; if his rage ends due to him falling unconscious, his hitpoint score is immediately lowered by his level x2 (i.e., his "rage" CON went from 18 back down to 14) -- which means that around 6th or 7th level he can "auto-kill himself" if he ever falls unconscious.
And the Rage HPs gained (and lost) go up to x3 and x4 level when you gain Greater Rage, etc.
Honestly, I wish that instead of adding and then force-subtracting HPs when you drop Rage, that a mechanic allowing you to function normally while in Negative HPs (while Raging) was added, which would leave it 110% clear at all times where your actual HPs are... Maybe also eventually increasing your `death point` (normally -CON), say, after 2xBarbLevel > CON. Doesn`t reduce healing needs, and even with Diehard, etc, you will be Disabled outside of Rage.It`s amazing how many players aren´t even aware of the disappearing Rage HPs issue (if you`re never dropped unconscious during combat, or never rely on the Rage HPs to stay conscious/alive, it`s easy to never notice the issue).
I would say that Superstitious forcing Saves to take half Healing during Rage is really a red herring, since needing full healing during combat isn`t that much of a regular thing, unless you have an evil GM who likes stringing together encounters with no rest :-). The real issue for me, and why I also find Superstitious to be a pain in the ass, is that you can`t receive NON-healing spells during Rage, i.e. buffs. Yes, you can delay to receive a spell at the cost of your Init advantage. But do that twice in a battle, and you`ve essentially given up a round of combat. Steel-Soul Dwarves definitely don`t need Superstitious, but lots of other characters can find ways to buff their Saves as well, and Barbs already have pretty good Fort and Will Saves (I pretty much find that the Sacred Tattoo alt-Racial trait for Orcs is more broadly useful, perhaps beyond the 1st level or 2). Instead of spending a Rage Power / Feat on Superstitious, you can spend it on Clear Mind (albeit at 8th level) for similar effect - You don`t need help on Fort Saves while Raging, and while having a huge bonus vs. Reflex Save Spells is NICE, it`s not NECESSARY.
Urban Barbarian brings up wierd things...
Like should they still be required to take Moment of Clarity if they want to go into Rage Prophet,
even though they don`t actually suffer from any limitations or penalties during their Rage?
I mean, without it, they can`t use a few Rage Prophet benefits like counting Barb Levels towards Caster Level/Concentration when using Moment of Clarity, but as-is it seems really wierd (and meta-gamey) why you would take that for literally NO benefit (until several levels into the PrC).
I suppose with celestial Fullplate (and a Tome of Dex+2)
we could get the AC up to 37 raging/reckless abandon and 33 with come and get me.Probably still need a Dancing Shield though.
I like to avoid items that are based of named armor but have been changed or upgraded. There are no rules for this what so ever and is completely based on DM disgression.
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I would say that Superstitious forcing Saves to take half Healing during Rage is really a red herring, since needing full healing during combat isn`t that much of a regular thing, unless you have an evil GM who likes stringing together encounters with no rest :-). The real issue for me, and why I also find Superstitious to be a pain in the ass, is that you can`t receive NON-healing spells during Rage, i.e. buffs.Yeah....Magic Circle and that sort of thing. (And you probably will need in-combat healing if you take a greataxe crit to the face!)
Urban Barbarian brings up wierd things...
Like should they still be required to take Moment of Clarity if they want to go into Rage Prophet,
Urban is more of a multiclass chassis than a full-on archetype; most builds probably won't have more than four levels of it.
An urban barbarian can get a pretty crazy touch AC if they grab Ghost Rager and rolling dodge. I'm not sure how important a good touch ac is though. Dervish dancer so that they can do decent damage.
many DMs will just beat you with the CRB for even daring to suggest it.
If gms have to ban rage cycling, then they're fiating against melees.
And if they have to nerf the barbarian to let the other classes keep up, I'd say our job here is done.
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No; they'd simply be pointing out the meta-gamy absurdity of a single build "type" trying to cheese around the limitations of Superstition rage power. (A barbarian without Superstition has no reason to even imagine why he'd want to do such a thing as lower his rage unnecessarily -- because an enemy with a readied attack may have been waiting for such.)many DMs will just beat you with the CRB for even daring to suggest it.If gms have to ban rage cycling, then they're fiating against melees.
And if they have to nerf the barbarian to let the other classes keep up, I'd say our job here is done.
My heart bleeds for all the Superstitious Wild Ragers. Screw 'em.
No; they'd simply be pointing out the meta-gamy absurdity of a single build "type" trying to cheese around the limitations of Superstition rage power. (A barbarian without Superstition has no reason to even imagine why he'd want to do such a thing as lower his rage unnecessarily -- because an enemy with a readied attack may have been waiting for such.)
Barbarian's rage cycling is no more meta-gamie then once a rage powers.
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Barbarian's rage cycling is no more meta-gamie then once a rage powers.
Not at all -- even a crazy guy who knows he can only do something once a fight is going to keep that in-mind even while the blood-haze takes over.
But the whole "I'm crazy!--no I'm not!--now I am again!" business is an eye-roller.
Barbarian's rage cycling is no more meta-gamie then once a rage powers.Not at all -- even a crazy guy who knows he can only do something once a fight is going to keep that in-mind even while the blood-haze takes over.
But the whole "I'm crazy!--no I'm not!--now I am again!" business is an eye-roller.
But it doesn't have to do with a crazy guy only thinking he can get away with something once a fight. You can rage multiple times in a fight, taking the time to be fatigued between each, and pull off once a rage abilities multiple times in that fight. And raging is calling upon inner reserves of strength, not going crazy.
But it doesn't have to do with a crazy guy only thinking he can get away with something once a fight. You can rage multiple times in a fight, taking the time to be fatigued between each, and pull off once a rage abilities multiple times in that fight. And raging is calling upon inner reserves of strength, not going crazy.Barbarian's rage cycling is no more meta-gamie then once a rage powers.Not at all -- even a crazy guy who knows he can only do something once a fight is going to keep that in-mind even while the blood-haze takes over.
But the whole "I'm crazy!--no I'm not!--now I am again!" business is an eye-roller.
Agreed. Rage is specifically called out as ferocity and inner strength. It makes more sense that way with the power selection available. This was discussed on the boards somewhere before, but it's not "AM SO MAD AM CAN SEE IN DARK!".
In any event, dropping your rage is something you do on your turn. But if Bad1 just critted you, the party cleric is next, and Bad2 after him, you're screwed with Superstition, and double-screwed because Superstition is what made the very save you want to blow now almost unbeatable!
Unless Bad1 critted with a disintegrate that you only made the save on cause of superstition. Then you are doubly un-screwed. And if you make the save on domninate monster, it does nothing, if you make the save on heal it works for half. Sounds like a winner to me. I wonder if superstition sounds like a winner to anyone else?
In any event, dropping your rage is something you do on your turn. But if Bad1 just critted you, the party cleric is next, and Bad2 after him, you're screwed with Superstition, and double-screwed because Superstition is what made the very save you want to blow now almost unbeatable!Unless Bad1 critted with a disintegrate that you only made the save on cause of superstition. Then you are doubly un-screwed. And if you make the save on domninate monster, it does nothing, if you make the save on heal it works for half. Sounds like a winner to me. I wonder if superstition sounds like a winner to anyone else?
Heal doesn't save for half. It negates it outright. You are good with all other cure spells though.
Couple of things to note.
You cannot deliberately fail a save for temp HP with eater of magic, since superstition says you have to try and save against all spells.
Eater of Magic does however, completely, negate the need for clear mind.
Compare- Clear mind let's you re-roll a WILL save after you roll, but NOT BEFORE, the DM tells you if you pass/failed. There is a chance to waste it's use.
Eater of Magic, on the other hand auto kicks in AFTER you fail ANY save to negate the effect and get temp HP. So no need for clear mind, (since superstitious Barbs are unlikely to fail more than 1save per fight.
A rules question, but given its focused interest it seems like a good place to ask it.
Human Barbarians can use their favored class to raise 1/3 towards Supersitition. That is a staple use on the forums.
But what about the Trap Sense and abilties that replace Trap Sense. 1/2 to trap sense is...meh in most game groups.
But my Invulnerable Rager gets +1 to an Elemental DR every 3 levels (same rate of gain as Trap sense, which is the ability it replaces) Would my 1/2 favored class bonus bump that?
What about a Supersitious Rager (the Archtype, not the Rage Power)? Could I put the 1/2 FC bonus to raising my Initiative and Surprise Round AC. The AC is pretty 'meh' but the Init could be awesome.
The more I am looking at the archtype the more I think it has some merit. It loses the DR (which does suck) But you keep the Uncanny dodge which can be nice. And outside of Invulnerable Rager Archtype the DR gain is a late game gain. (DR 2/- in PFS is top without rage powers)
But Scent, blind sense? these are nice. Sure they are high level powers, but they can be made into some amazing abilities.
The +5 init at 18th level from just the class feature is nice. If the FC could be used you could have a +14 at 18th level before other factors. Dex and a trait and you're courting that +18 to +20 init. While the diviner wizard will still top that, that's about it.
Or what about using the FC to raise the bonus of Elemental Kin. So the question really comes down to can the FC Race bonus affect the replaced class feature?
Superstition is specifically mentioned because it's NOT a normal class feature.
To the best of my understanding, favored class bonuses affect what they say they affect and nothing else. If you don't have that ability/feature/whatever any more because you gave it up in an archetype, then you're outta luck.
I agree and that makes sense because you are adding something to an ability you do not have. Like if you had an ability to add +1 damage per die to fire spells and did not know any fire spells you do not get the damage.
Favored Class Bonuses do not increase the effect of Alt-Class abilities which replaced the abilities FC affects.
I also like the Superstitious ARCHETYPE which Prost mentions, it´s best stuff is all at the high end of game-play unfortunately, but if you think you will get there, it´s definitely compelling. Unfortunately, it pretty much conflicts (re:ability swaps) with my other favorite Archetypes: Pugilist, Scarred, and (not really my ´favorite´, but a strong one nonetheless) Invulnverable. The low-light/darkvision/scent stuff of course isn´t UNIQUE since those are generic Rage Powers, but you DO get them for free, which is nice, and you eventually get REALLY nice stuff (blindsense/sight).
I personally don´t like Superstitious because being able to be Dimension Door´ed around the Battlefield via my Caster Ally´s Familiar is a thing I like, amongst the other benefits of friendly spells (and Su abilities). It can definitely be powerful, and it´s subsequent abilities chaining off of it (Spell Sunder, Eater of Magic, etc) are AWESOME and I wish I could use them without Superstitious... So enjoy them if you DO take Superstitious Rage Power!!!
I really wish Moment of Clarity wasn´t a de-jure Pre Req of Rage Prophet.
With Urban Barbarian´s Controlled Rage, it just makes ZERO sense, and even aside from that,
I prefer the option of dealing with the casting/Rage conflict in my own way (e.g. not casting in-combat as much).
That does beg a question:
Do you HAVE to use all your rage powers every time you rage? Can you rage and not 'turn on' Supersitious and thus not get the save bonus but also not have to make saves?
If you have the Fiend Totem line do you always HAVE to grow spikes and other unpleasant things if you are just trying to get in a bar fight and don't think looking like a demon is a good way to make friends?
AM BARBARIAN,
WHERE IS GUIDE TO MAKING BARBARIAN SMASHY SMASH? I HAVE FRIEND FIGHTER THINK MULTI-CLASS IS IDEA THAT BE GOOD FOR DESTRUCITY BUT I TELL HIM NO IS WRONG, SO SO WRONG. JUST BARBARIAN FOR TOP KILLING.
HE SAYS WANTS PROOF, ME SAY WILL FIND GUIDEBOOK TEACH HIM RIGHT.
YOU HAVE?
Unfortunately,
Trinam has only posted the intro.
If you friend wants to multiclass fighter, then either the Two Handed Warrior or Unbreakable (fighter) and Invulnerable Rager Archetypes mesh well. Unbreakable is potent 1 LEVEL dip to stack improved stalwart and DR, Two Handed Warrior for OVERHAND Chop and BACKSWING.
Spell Sunder is potent with Archer fighter.
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i'm thinking of making a barbarian for PFS. Should i bother with going a half-orc to pick up the extra rage per level (+1 to all saves is nice too) or should i go human to get the extra feat?
I personally really like the extra feat but a halforc can do some fun things with intimidate and the right feats.
So, I haven't finished reading the thread yet but... I would like to direct everyone to the following Archetype.
=Titan Mauler=
It's key features include...
Jotungrip (Ex): At 2nd level, a titan mauler may choose to wield a two-handed melee weapon in one hand with a –2 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. The weapon must be appropriately sized for her, and it is treated as one-handed when determining the effect of Power Attack, Strength bonus to damage, and the like.
And!
Massive Weapons (Ex): At 3rd level, a titan mauler becomes skilled in the use of massive weapons looted from her titanic foes. The attack roll penalty for using weapons too large for her size is reduced by 1, and this reduction increases by 1 for every three levels beyond 3rd (to a minimum of 0).
Sadly according to the FAQ you can't use Massive Weapons with Jotungrip.... HOWEVER! I present to you all the following concept...
A barbarian stands alone on the battle field against the raging tide of foul goblins invading her homeland... In one hand, she wields a great sword... In the other, a lucerne hammer. The throng of goblins momentarily stopped their advance, witnessing a third, impossible weapon upon her back... A massive earth breaker, that looked as if it could squish one of their member by simply being dropped on them...
In short, a TWF utilizing Jotungrip to wield two Two-Handers, one with Reach, and one without... While of course still using a single huge (or larger) two-hander because that's what barbarians do! It's probably a build I'm gonna work on when I'm done finalizing all of my other character concepts (I have about 6 others I'm working on ATM)....
Edit: I did not realize this might have been a necro... Really gotta start paying attention to last post dates.
Edit 2: I'd also like to give an honorable mention most people seem to forget about with builds... Particularly on the 'survivability' scale...
Feat: Godless Healing - Once per day when you have half your total hit points or fewer, you may heal yourself of an amount of damage equal to 1d8 plus your total Hit Dice as a move action. This is a supernatural ability. Special: You can take this feat more than once. Each time you do, you may heal yourself one additional time per day.
Rage Power (Barb 4): Renewed Vigor (EX) - As a standard action, the barbarian heals 1d8 points of damage + her Constitution modifier. For every four levels the barbarian has attained above 4th, this amount of damage healed increases by 1d8, to a maximum of 5d8 at 20th level. Special: This power can be used only once per day and only while raging.
Rage Power (Barb 6, Renewed Vigor): Regenerative Vigor - Benefit: After using her renewed vigor rage power until her current rage ends, the barbarian gains fast healing 1 for every 6 barbarian levels she has (maximum fast healing 3). She regains hit points from fast healing at the start of each of her turns.
Rage Power: Guarded Life - While raging, if the barbarian is reduced below 0 hit points, 1 hit point of lethal damage per barbarian level is converted to nonlethal damage. If the barbarian is at negative hit points due to lethal damage, she immediately stabilizes.
Rage Power (barb 6, Guarded Life): Guarded Life Greater - When using the guarded life rage power, 1 additional hit point of lethal damage per barbarian level is converted to nonlethal damage.
Seems to me like you got some relatively reliable self-heals in or out of rage. And with a beefy con bonus, you am that much harder to kill.
i'm thinking of making a barbarian for PFS. Should i bother with going a half-orc to pick up the extra rage per level (+1 to all saves is nice too) or should i go human to get the extra feat?
The best reason to play a half-orc barbarian is to be able to rage effectively infinity rounds/day thanks to a lovely feat from Orcs of Golarion. I'll be getting into that later, but it's called Destroyer's Blessing, and it plus a Merciful weapon are flat-out hilarious. Shame you miss out on the Superstition bonus, but this is the price you pay for awesome.
Also, I think the scope of my original project may have been too large. Let's face it: there's a CRAPTON of Barbarians and ways to smash things... and unfortunately I have to balance a dayjob, a wife, my own obsessive need to post here, and also this guide. As a result, I'm going to be dialing back the scope of the project a little and only covering the three 'optimalist' types: the Mounted Barbarian, the CAGM Barbarian, and the Archer Barbarian (Which is more an Archer with Barbarian levels, but this seemed worth sharing with everyone).
Thread ain't dead yet, just takes me forever to get my thoughts onto a piece of paper on googledocs.
WELL HURRY UP!
AM HITTING TALKY MAN HARD AS BARBARIAN CAN, ALREADY.
Careful. That can backfire on you...
THIS AM WHY BARBARIAN HAVE ENGINEERING DEGREE. NEVER FALL INTO CEILING SQUISH TRAP.
Superstition, love it or not, needs to be taken on an optimized barb, as it is a prerequisite for the almighty spell sunder.
As for scarred rager... I'm underwhelmed by its abilities. As a general rule, you want to succeed at your saves in the first place. If you do, the ability is mostly useless. It makes a good fallback if you fail, but to get it you have to give up invulnerable rager, which is the best archetype for proactive damage control. Unless you plan on taking a lot of bleed damage, I can't recommend it over invulnerable.