Ok, so we are running the runelord campaign and our party consists of 2 barbarians, an elemental sorcerer, a priestess of desna and my druid.
I am planning on retiring the druid for a little while or even permanently because i get frustrated with having to keep track of an animal companion, all his spells, his summons and his own shapeshifting.
It's just a bit much for someone who came back to D&D after skipping the 3.0/3.5 years of D&D especially seeing we are level 13 and i have never played a campaign above level 8 or so.
So my question is which archer should i play?
The Myrmadarch(Magus Archetype), the Zen Archer, or the Fighter( no archery archetype as i believe it is worse than a straight fighter)?
I would take the ranger, but i don't like the favored terrain or favored enemy stuff.
I view this character as being kinda like a Green Arrow or a Hawkeye from the comics.
I want him to have trick arrows or the equivelant thereof.
I understand the magus can do some fun things and even gets a weapon training and armor training bonus as per the fighter, but i really wouldn't want higher than 3rd or 4th level spells.
The monk will have some skills like stealth, perception (to avoid being caught flat footed) and sense motive to avoid feints.
The fighter can be very cool in his heavy armor with a high dex bonus, weapon specialization and weapon/armor training.
Any advice would be appreciated.
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Straight fighter is highest AC and damage, but not green arrow.
For green arrow I'd suggest Ranger 6/wizard 1/arcane archer. Ranger because of the early access to improved precise (biggest bonus ever tO range) and for skills; then arcane archer gives you the cool tricks to phase arrows / make them burst.
I'd go for the fighter. It's simple to play and an absurd damage machine.
The Archetype is actually an extremely useful one. The ability to do combat maneuvers at range is not to be underestimated. Just take Agile Maneuvers and you can have fun shooting the weapons out of enemies hands.
You'd never want to use heavy armor. Celestial Armor is the armor of choice for any archer.
If your GM allows the new UC stuff, you can have fun with Called Shots. Clustered Shots and the Snap Shot line are also extremely useful.
I can see some awesome thematic combat doing things like shooting the weapon out of an enemies hand, then putting an arrow in his throat. What you may lose in raw numbers, you make up for in sheer trick-shooting badassery.
Arcane Duelist Bard archer.
Arcane Strike is a great damage boost, and Inspire Courage / Good Hope / Haste in round 1 is a great way to boost your damage, attacks, and to-hit. I wouldn't be surprised if they can out-do fighters, especially when you consider all the extra damage the barbs will be doing from your buffs.
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Straight fighter is highest AC and damage, but not green arrow.
For green arrow I'd suggest Ranger 6/wizard 1/arcane archer. Ranger because of the early access to improved precise (biggest bonus ever tO range) and for skills; then arcane archer gives you the cool tricks to phase arrows / make them burst.
Zen Archer also gets access to Improved Precise shot at 6th level.
At 3rd level, the ZA can shoot without provoking AoO.The monk can use his WIS bonus in place of DEX for "to hit". Wisdom also adds to his AC, touch AC and flat-footed AC.
The monk automatically gets Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization.
At 9th level, the monk can make AoO with his bow (in squares that his unarmed strike threatens).
The monk uses his bow for Flurry of Blows. At 13th level that means five attacks at +11/+11/+6/+6/+1. You can spend a ki point to get another attack at +11.
Abundant Step starting at 12th level.
At 13th level a dwarf monk has movement 60' - faster than a horse.
If you want magical abilities for your arrows, then yes, you would play arcane archer. You need fewer levels of fighter than monk to get to AA. That is the only reason I can think of to recommend the elvish fighter over the ZA monk.
For some reason I consider the dawnflower dervish to make a good archer if you do not want to stand still. Mobile attack while using rapid and manyshot only sacrificing one arrow must be nice in dungeons. Also you still get weapon training which you do not get with mobile fighter which is another option.
Straight fighter is highest AC and damage, but not green arrow.
For green arrow I'd suggest Ranger 6/wizard 1/arcane archer. Ranger because of the early access to improved precise (biggest bonus ever tO range) and for skills; then arcane archer gives you the cool tricks to phase arrows / make them burst.
The only problem i see with the arcane archer is that he can only choose his elemental, elemental burst and aligned arrow qualities once per day. That's it, no bag of tricks unless relying on inbueing most of his arrows with spells.
That said, if i can buy special arrows with a fighter, i can do the same with an arcane archer.The Myrmadarch seems to replace the arcane archer as far as i am concerned. It also provides a bit more actual fighter training at the cost of spells, which is what i could want, but again, is it worth picking the Myrmadarch when i could just play a zen archer or a straight fighter that has spend a lot of gold on special arrows?
I am asking these things because i have never played any of the above and don't want to play the rotating character till i find something i am comfortable with in this campaign.
Thank you for the responses so far, they are much appreciated.Keep it up.
A Myrmidarch can easily qualify for Arcane Archer without multiclassing. Mixing Arcane Pool weapon bonuses with the arrow qualities can result in some ridiculous arrow damage. Because AA is a full BAB class, if you went Magus 11/AA 9, you'd have a last iterative attack with the ability to imbue spells into every shot. Hello volley of Scorching Ray flaming burst acid burst holy arrows.
A Myrmidarch can easily qualify for Arcane Archer without multiclassing. Mixing Arcane Pool weapon bonuses with the arrow qualities can result in some ridiculous arrow damage. Because AA is a full BAB class, if you went Magus 11/AA 9, you'd have a last iterative attack with the ability to imbue spells into every shot. Hello volley of Scorching Ray flaming burst acid burst holy arrows.
Very very cool, only i just reread the imbue arrow ability and it states that the spell being cast uses it's standard casting time and the arrow must be fired during the round that the casting is completed or the spell is wasted.
So, this means that the spell can still be a fireball, but it can be the only arrow fired and the only spell cast that round.Makes me think more and more that the arcane archer is not the way to go, so that seems to be off the list for me.
Take the Familiar arcana. Make it an imp. Give him wands. Make him use his action to imbue the arrow, then fire it as part of your full attack.
Marksman or soulbolt!
Marksman or soulbolt!
hmm, i looked up the marksman and he seems ok.
Not sure i want to purchase a product just for one class though.(Soulbolt)| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Ok, so we are running the runelord campaign and our party consists of 2 barbarians, an elemental sorcerer, a priestess of desna and my druid.
I am planning on retiring the druid for a little while or even permanently because i get frustrated with having to keep track of an animal companion, all his spells, his summons and his own shapeshifting.
It's just a bit much for someone who came back to D&D after skipping the 3.0/3.5 years of D&D especially seeing we are level 13 and i have never played a campaign above level 8 or so.So my question is which archer should i play?
The Myrmadarch(Magus Archetype), the Zen Archer, or the Fighter( no archery archetype as i believe it is worse than a straight fighter)?
I would take the ranger, but i don't like the favored terrain or favored enemy stuff.
I view this character as being kinda like a Green Arrow or a Hawkeye from the comics.
I want him to have trick arrows or the equivelant thereof.I understand the magus can do some fun things and even gets a weapon training and armor training bonus as per the fighter, but i really wouldn't want higher than 3rd or 4th level spells.
The monk will have some skills like stealth, perception (to avoid being caught flat footed) and sense motive to avoid feints.
The fighter can be very cool in his heavy armor with a high dex bonus, weapon specialization and weapon/armor training.
Any advice would be appreciated.
I think a fighter (archer archetype) kind of switch hitter might be your avenue. From the top of my head, here would be a very simple 13 level 15 point-buy-build:
Ability scores: str 14, dex 17, con 14, int 10,wis 10,cha 8 (+2 in dex)-> lvl 13: 14,20,14,10,10,8 (3x +1 in dex)
Feats (chosen according to be legal, not necessarily the most realistic order):
1 point-blank shot
1h precise shot
1b weapon finesse
2b deadly aim
3 power attack
4b rapid shot
5 iron will
6b many shot
7 improved iron will
8b weapon focus (comp. longbow)
9 nimble moves
10b weapon specialization
11 improved precise shot
12b greater weapon specialization
13 clustered shot (Ultimate Combat)
This assumes a human for the extra bonus feat and the very helpful skill point bonus, but you can easily drop one feat such as clustered shot or nimble moves. Assuming you go with this build, you could do the following:
- You will be great with the bow and decent with a finessable weapon, e.g. a rapier. I would advise having an option like that and also invest into power attack to be useful even when your bow cannot be utilized for some reason.
- You should have 130000gp available at that level. Get yourself a +5 mighty (+2) composite longbow for about 50000gp. You will overcome almost any kind of damage reduction and get great bonuses to attack and damage. Alternatively, pile on extra stuff such as ghost touch, holy or shocking burst.
- With an ordinary, non-magic mighty (+2) composite longbow you would have an attack bonus of 13+3 (expert archer)+1 (weapon focus)+1 (point-blank)+5 (dex)=+23/+18/+13 to hit in 30 feet, or +21/+21/+21/+18/+13 in 30ft with rapid shot and many shot on. Your damage would be 1d8+2 (mighty)+3 (expert archer)+4 (weapon specialization)+1 (point-blank shot)=1d8+10 in 30 feet, or -4 to hit and 1d8+18 damage with deadly aim in 30 feet. Damage is on each arrow of course ;-)
- If you use that +5 bow from above you could have the following attacks and damage in 30 feet with rapid shot, many shot, deadly aim: attack +22/+22/+22/+19/+14 and damage 1d8+23. So if you hit each time you would dish out reliable 5*1d8+5*23=137 points of damage each round without breaking a sweat.
- Simply substract 1 from attack and damage if not in 30 feet.
- Get stat boosters (physical attributes, i.e. dex, or dex+con, or all) to further up attack bonuses and resilience
- with a rapier you'd still be hitting with +13+5 (dex)-4 (power attack)=+14/+9/+4 and doing 1d6+2+8 (power attack)=1d6+10 on each hit with power attack. Factor in a magic weapon and you're still decent.
- Iron will should get you through most mental threats, but a cloak of resistance is a good investment for you.
- Nimble moves will allow you to move 5 feet even in difficult terrain. Nice to get away from baddies.
- Clustered shots adds up all your damage to a target on a full attack before DR, so you do not need to worry about that anymore.
- Alternatively, replace feats such as nimble moves or clustered shots or weapon finesse with ones like fleet (you run away faster but can still shoot), blind-fight (against invisible foes) and the dodge/mobility/shot on the run chain. Particularly the latter can be nice for show when having a high acrobatics bonus (jump and shoot arrows during a salto or such ;-). Or get a skill focus to perception to see invisible foes at a higher level (when they move it's only a +20 bonus on stealth!). I would advise on maintaining some offensive ability though, thus keeping power attack. And weapon finesse helps you to focus only on DEX to hit, so... :-)
- You should have 2+1(human)+1(favored class) skill points per level. Put them in perception and acrobatics first, then distribute as you like. This way you can spot your foes well and remain agile (tumbling away etc.). Also, you could pull off some amazing feats (jumping past enemies etc.)
- Get an enchanted buckler, it's made for bows and will greatly shore up your defenses!
- I recommend disarm, sunder and trip as trick shots. Particularly if you get that +5 bow you can destroy the most mighty magic weapons the enemy can bring to bear - or at least remove them from his hands or him onto the ground ;-)
So much for a quick suggestion. I also really like some of the other suggestions, such as ranger or arcane duelist, but this character could be more straightforward to play and useful in many situations that arise.
I hope this helps :-)
Take the Familiar arcana. Make it an imp. Give him wands. Make him use his action to imbue the arrow, then fire it as part of your full attack.
I know this kind of "trick" to improve the action economy. I find it a bit cheesy though and don't think it would fly with my DMs... Probably I would not allow it in my games either :-/
However, that reminds me: To improve versatility the OP could get a headband of intellect +2 with the skill bonus in use magic device. At level 13 that would net him about a 65% chance to activate a wand. Not too shabby for a measly 4000 GP investment :-)
Ok, so we are running the runelord campaign and our party consists of 2 barbarians, an elemental sorcerer, a priestess of desna and my druid.
I am planning on retiring the druid for a little while or even permanently because i get frustrated with having to keep track of an animal companion, all his spells, his summons and his own shapeshifting.
It's just a bit much for someone who came back to D&D after skipping the 3.0/3.5 years of D&D especially seeing we are level 13 and i have never played a campaign above level 8 or so.So my question is which archer should i play?
The Myrmadarch(Magus Archetype), the Zen Archer, or the Fighter( no archery archetype as i believe it is worse than a straight fighter)?
I would take the ranger, but i don't like the favored terrain or favored enemy stuff.
I view this character as being kinda like a Green Arrow or a Hawkeye from the comics.
I want him to have trick arrows or the equivelant thereof.I understand the magus can do some fun things and even gets a weapon training and armor training bonus as per the fighter, but i really wouldn't want higher than 3rd or 4th level spells.
The monk will have some skills like stealth, perception (to avoid being caught flat footed) and sense motive to avoid feints.
The fighter can be very cool in his heavy armor with a high dex bonus, weapon specialization and weapon/armor training.
Any advice would be appreciated.
I think a fighter (archer archetype) kind of switch hitter might be your avenue. From the top of my head, here would be a very simple 13 level 15 point-buy-build:
Ability scores: str 14, dex 17, con 14, int 10,wis 10,cha 8 (+2 in dex)
-> lvl 13: 14,20,14,10,10,8 (3x +1 in dex)
Feats (chosen according to be legal, not necessarily the most realistic order):
1 point-blank shot
1h precise shot
1b weapon finesse
2b deadly aim
3 power attack
4b rapid shot
5 iron will
6b many shot
7 improved iron will
8b weapon focus (comp. longbow)
9 nimble moves
10b...
Thank you for the great response.
This is similar to what i had in mind, only i am finding that i can actually get away with only needing a backup bow or some such due to the fact that i was looking at these feats.7 from level advancement and 7 fighter feats with 1 from human.
Weapon focus (longbow)
Greater Weapon Focus (longbow)
Weapon spec. (longbow)
Greater Weapon spec. (longbow)
Point Blank Shot
Manyshot
Rapid Shot
Point Blank Master
Deadly Aim
Improved Initiative
Alertness
Iron Will
Imp. Iron Will
Precise Shot
Imp. Precise Shot.
I was also thinking of switching some out for the 3 feats in the Snap Shot line and combat reflexes.
With Combat Reflexes i have up to 9 attacks of opportunity to anyone within 15 feet due to belt of dex, human racial trait and level advancement.
Also cluster shot or impacting critical all sound good.
These on a good bow along with the new 2nd level spell ghostly hands which reloads a weapon, it's pretty good.
Maybe even thinking a crossbow would work well here, but again, i can get the spells (with the Magus) or all those feats very easily (with the Zen Monk).
Hmmm
Take the Familiar arcana. Make it an imp. Give him wands. Make him use his action to imbue the arrow, then fire it as part of your full attack.
Yeah, no.
I don't want more companions/pets to deal with and would need to sacrifice the imp by planting a bomb on his back and making him run at the enemy... i just think it wouldn't work well.
Hm, I am not sure: What do you mean by "backup bow"?
Btw, a crossbowman would be cool, too. I have build one once that focuses on criticals - a concept much more viable than with a bow. And you can shoot alchemical bolts, i.e. mini grenades ;-)
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Hm, I am not sure: What do you mean by "backup bow"?
Oops, i will edit that.
I meant only need a bow with a backup shortbow or longbow in case the first one gets sundered.With the right feats, i can really just use a bow and with things like Duelist Gloves, i am more resistant to disarms and sunder attepmpts as well as having a +2 weapon training bonus.This is great for the fighter and the Myrmidarch who also gets weapon training.
I also got to thinking about it more. I think it'd be cool to have an arrow for any occasion.
Was thinking it'd be very cool to have a bow called Thunder and Lightning (sounds kinda cheesy i know) that'd have cool effects like it normally shoots either shock or thundering arrows and with the phrase "thunder and lightning!", it shoots a lightning bolt as a Javelin of Lightning.
The reverse would be "lightning and thunder!" and a sonic boom would occur where the arrow hit. Limited uses per day.
It'd be way cooler if i could produce those effects, a disintigrate spell, the 4 elements and a few other cool effects like a gravity arrow that increases the gravity in a small area.
Would love to get these things in magic items, but the magus may be closer and closer to this concept because he actually gets most of those types of spells.
It seems a bit wierd to me that a spellcaster can alter time, bend realities and create demiplanes, yet a fighter's magic items are a vorpal blade, a brilliant energy weapon or a +5 weapon. Woo freakin Hoo.
What happened to the cool items like the bow that the ranger in the old Dungeons and Dragons cartoon had?
What about a sword that is unbreakable or a sword that can cut through an anvil as if the anvil were butter?
I want cool magic items that are not automatically considered artifacts because they are deemed too powerful.
I get it, the fighter may be balanced on the lack of a need of such coolness, but they just seem to have lost some flavor.
Well, i am tired.
Time to sleep.
Thank you again for the responses and sleep well.
Look at the guide ranger archetype. When your ranger uses ranger focus it should be in the lead. Other than that the fighter should be in front.
What happened to the cool items like the bow that the ranger in the old Dungeons and Dragons cartoon had?
What about a sword that is unbreakable or a sword that can cut through an anvil as if the anvil were butter?
You could have custom magic items made or make them yourself. In the magic item compendium there were gloves that produced force javelins, and the item was only something like 7000gp. In Pathfinder you could probably achieve the same with a magic bow with a continuous magic enchantment on it, based on the "minor creation" and "abundant ammunition" (Ultimate Combat) spells. So it would be use-activated (use the bow), create an arrow and bestow the necessary magic properties onto it.
Regarding the sword, you can basically have that: Take an adamantine sword, increase its hardness (permanent spell hardness on it or such) and off you go (adamantine ignores the first 20 points of hardness or so...)
I started a thread on the arrow creating bow here to get some feedback on my thoughts on the price.
Marksman or soulbolt!hmm, i looked up the marksman and he seems ok.
Not sure i want to purchase a product just for one class though.(Soulbolt)
Especially since with that you can re-create Samus Aran! (Seriously, that's the first thing I thought right after "Awesome". Okay, the second. The first was "Mega Man!!!!!")
Hm, I am not sure: What do you mean by "backup bow"?Oops, i will edit that.
I meant only need a bow with a backup shortbow or longbow in case the first one gets sundered.
I don't have any stock in Dreamscarred or anything, but did I point out that you cannot really sunder a soulbolt? :D
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I view this character as being kinda like a Green Arrow or a Hawkeye from the comics. I want him to have trick arrows or the equivelant thereof.Hold that thought....
You should have 130000gp available at that level. Get yourself a +5 mighty (+2) composite longbow for about 50000gp. You will overcome almost any kind of damage reduction and get great bonuses to attack and damage.
Depending upon how many times a day you fight "boss" monsters, a probably better use of "about 50000gp" is +25,600 for an Oathbow, and 25,000 for Bracers of Archery(Greater). An Oathbow is a STR+2/Enh+2 weapon, so there's plenty of room for further upgrading.
See my Bowbarian for build ideas.