Haste and the Sorcerer...


Rules Questions


Not sure this shouldn't be under General Discussion, but..

I've always felt a bit gypped (is that a slight on gypsies?) as a spell caster with Haste. You cast it, but only Mele really gain the benefit. Assuming you have a full round action as a mele class, you gain an extra attack. A mage or sorcerer gain an extra nose pick and 30' of mv to put it anywhere they want.
Is there not something they could get? I was thinking maybe Sorcerers could maybe get to apply a meta effect w/o it being a full round casting time.

Liberty's Edge

30 ft of movement benefits spell casters much more than it does melee since their spells are a standard action.


I think they benefit enough, a full attack isn't always that easy to get, 30'move, +1 to hit, +1 reflex, +1 ac.. doesnt seem so bad, especially if you catch your summons in it as well, haste does too much as a 3rd level spell in my opinion as it is.

But if it bothers you that much, don't pick the spell, there shouldnt be a single spell that you must have above all others with every sorceror/wizard..


Terrel wrote:
You cast it, but only Mele really gain the benefit.

You get the bonus to AC and reflex saves. You could make more attacks (Say, with touch attacks, if your DM rules that way). But most importantly: Your party is there to serve your whims. By enabling them to kill your enemies more efficiently, you are directly benefiting. It's like enchanting your sword, the sword gets better, but you're the one who wields it. Enhance that fighter and send him out to the front lines, you've got more important things to do.


Remco Sommeling wrote:
... there shouldnt be a single spell that you must have above all others with every sorceror/wizard..

Fireball. There are few combat and social situations where the application of fireballs does not remedy.


What Grick said.
Also about the only melee thing you wrote, the ranged combatants also gain an extra attack from haste.


All good points. I did forget about the ac and reflex bonus. I generally always choose this spell as i am woefully a team player and feel it is one of the most effective spells to assure party success. I'm just so dang jealous when the mele (and ranged) get that extra attk.

No one addressed the Sorcerer thing though. If you don't take the extra 30' of move would it be too much to ask to apply a meta-magic feat so it's not a full round action?


Don't take haste if you don't like the implications. Haste is very much a strong spell that is sort of a force multiplier based on how many physical damage dealers you have in the group. If you have one, it's not worth casting, if you have at least 2 and/or you expect combat to go longer than 3 rounds then it's a great spell. This is not based on any hard math computations just experience.

You could always just take Slow instead. Slow tends to be a bigger nerf than Haste is a boost because monsters often have more attacks (claw/claw/bite/rake/rend/tailslap/wing buffet) and reducing it to 1 from 3-4 is bigger than adding +1 attacks to 1 or 2. Caveat-if no one saves. There is a saving throw for slow but not haste. Which is why buffing is considered superior by some, it never fails and is almost always appreciated.

Also at some point in your average D&D game everyone will have boots of speed.

If there's a cleric in the group, just tell them to memorize blessing of fervor and you'll snag slow. You'll mop up.


Terrel wrote:


No one addressed the Sorcerer thing though. If you don't take the extra 30' of move would it be too much to ask to apply a meta-magic feat so it's not a full round action?

Not a bad houserule, but not RAW. See: Blessing of Fervor.


Not a bad houserule, but not RAW. See: Blessing of Fervor.

Brilliant sir, I like how you think. Our cleric is very consistent at casting BoF. I love the Slow idea.


Terrel wrote:


Not a bad houserule, but not RAW. See: Blessing of Fervor.
Brilliant sir, I like how you think. Our cleric is very consistent at casting BoF. I love the Slow idea.

The BEST bit about blessing of fervor, IMO, is that it does help casters. You can still, extend, or silent a 2nd level or lower spell each round during the duration. So during a long combat you could extend invisibility then silently cast summon monster spells without risking being pinpointed. Also, if you have extra rounds, just extend a day long buff like Mage Armor or what have you, free double duration spell!

BoF really is one of my favorite non-core spells, as I'm sure you can tell.

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