Eidolon Plus Bows

[BaLzIcHi]

Hi guys,
i really hope this was covered in another threat and someone figured someething out. ive been scouring the rules and cant find anything for it but.
Multiple limb fighting plus bows. HOW? WHAT RULES?

im talking specifically about an eidelon with say 3 sets of limbs using long bows to attack then going into the multishot/rapid shot chains. if anyone knows anything about it please let me know.

[thepuregamer]

Well it is not too complicated. Multiweapon fighting functions like two weapon fighting but with more off-hand attacks.

Bows are not light weapons and require 2 hands to fire.

Thus a 6 armed, eidolon could use 3 long bows. You would be at a -4 penalty because your aren't wielding light weapons in your off-hands.

Rapid shot would give you 1 more attack with the long bow in your main hand at an additional -2 to all your attacks.

Manyshot would allow you to fire 1 extra arrows from your main hand bow when you make a full attack with your bow. The off-hand bows would not get extra arrows on their first shot.

Haste or speed would only give you an extra attack with 1 weapon.

Long bows might be too heavy a penalty to work. Perhaps you could convince your dm to allow short bows to count as light weapons for multiweapon fighting so that you can atleast make this doable.

I am pretty sure the about the rules on this one. You can of course find the rules for two weapon fighting in the combat section of the prd, the rules for the multi-weapon fighting feat in the monster feats section, also a close reading of rapid shot and many shot should confirm the other things I wrote.

[Jeff1964]

BaLzIcHi wrote:

Hi guys,

i really hope this was covered in another threat and someone figured someething out. ive been scouring the rules and cant find anything for it but.
Multiple limb fighting plus bows. HOW? WHAT RULES?

im talking specifically about an eidelon with say 3 sets of limbs using long bows to attack then going into the multishot/rapid shot chains. if anyone knows anything about it please let me know.

Unless the Eidolon has a high enough base attack bonus, it would get one shot, from one of the three bows, not counting the extra arrow from multishot and the extra arrow from rapid shot. So, 3 arrows, 2 attacks until it has a base attack bonus of 6+. Multi-weapon fighting and two-weapon fighting are for melee weapons, not ranged. Rapid shot is the ranged equivalent of two-weapon fighting, allowing multiple attacks earlier than base attack progression normally allows.

[Wildmonsters]

Actually two-weapon fighting doesn't have the melee only restriction. in fact you can use TWF and rapid shot at the same time.

[thepuregamer]

two-weapon fighting:

If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon.

As you can see, there is no restriction on the kind of manufactured weapon. Just if you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get an extra attack with that weapon.

multiweapon fighting:

Multiweapon Fighting (Combat)

This multi-armed creature is skilled at making attacks with multiple weapons.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, three or more hands.

Benefit: Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons are reduced by –2 with the primary hand and by –6 with off hands.

Normal: A creature without this feat takes a –6 penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a –10 penalty on attacks made with all of its off hands. (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.) See Two-Weapon Fighting in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook.

Special: This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.

When you have more than 2 arms, you use multiweapon fighting and get an off-hand attack for each weapon wielded in an off hand. the feat even talks about the penalty on your attacks made with "all" of your off-hands.

An eidolon with 6 arms, can wield 3 bows. 1 bow would be his primary weapon and 2 bows would be wielded in off hands. Thus a 6 handed eidolon could make 2 additional attack while multiweapon fighting.

rapid shot:

Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a ranged weapon, you can fire one additional time this round. All of your attack rolls take a –2 penalty when using Rapid Shot.

this one is also clear cut. You make just 1 additional attack when you utilize rapid shot. Rapid shot does not take an action but is used as part of a full attack action. Thus you can combine rapid shot and multiweapon fighting.

manyshot:

Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a bow, your first attack fires two arrows. If the attack hits, both arrows hit. Apply precision-based damage (such as sneak attack) and critical hit damage only once for this attack. Damage bonuses from using a composite bow with a high Strength bonus apply to each arrow, as do other damage bonuses, such as a ranger's favored enemy bonus. Damage reduction and resistances apply separately to each arrow.

the feat says that when you are attacking with a bow, your first attack fires 2 arrows. Since most people will say that attacks with your off hand bows are fired 2nd. So only 1 extra arrow would be fired for a multiweapon fighting archer.

I personally do not see a reason for a dm to stop a player from doing this. considering that each bow uses up 2 of your arms, a regular multiweapon fighter is going to have many more attacks than a multiweapon archer. If I were dm'ing I would heavily consider allowing shortbows to count as light so that this multiweapon archer eidolon has even alittle chance to hit targets(-4 to all your attacks is a huge hit).

[Jeff1964]

Wildmonsters wrote:

Actually two-weapon fighting doesn't have the melee only restriction. in fact you can use TWF and rapid shot at the same time.

So how would you be able to fire two bows at the same time (for a person with only two arms)when each bow requires two arms to use? The only ranged weapons I am aware of that only require a single hand to use are thrown weapons and hand crossbows. Hand crossbows still require two hands to reload, so they can't be fired more than once each in a round, and then take a full round or more to reload, as you drop one to reload the other.

Page 202 specifically states that thrown weapons (not bows or crossbows, they are never mentioned) can be used with two weapon fighting.

[thepuregamer]

Jeff1964 wrote:

Wildmonsters wrote:

Actually two-weapon fighting doesn't have the melee only restriction. in fact you can use TWF and rapid shot at the same time.

So how would you be able to fire two bows at the same time (for a person with only two arms)when each bow requires two arms to use? The only ranged weapons I am aware of that only require a single hand to use are thrown weapons and hand crossbows. Hand crossbows still require two hands to reload, so they can't be fired more than once each in a round, and then take a full round or more to reload, as you drop one to reload the other.

As you said, what is preventing regular player character from dual wielding bows is the number of arms they have. You need 2 arms to wield and fire a bow. If you have 6 arms, you can wield and fire 3 bows.

Quote:

Page 202 specifically states that thrown weapons (not bows or crossbows, they are never mentioned) can be used with two weapon fighting.

actually, they are not restricting what weapons you can use there. They are just clarifying how to treat the weapons for two weapon fighting penalties. The two weapon fighting rules do not place any restrictions on what weapons can be used.

[Wildmonsters]

Jeff1964 wrote:

Wildmonsters wrote:

Actually two-weapon fighting doesn't have the melee only restriction. in fact you can use TWF and rapid shot at the same time.

So how would you be able to fire two bows at the same time (for a person with only two arms)when each bow requires two arms to use? The only ranged weapons I am aware of that only require a single hand to use are thrown weapons and hand crossbows. Hand crossbows still require two hands to reload, so they can't be fired more than once each in a round, and then take a full round or more to reload, as you drop one to reload the other.

Page 202 specifically states that thrown weapons (not bows or crossbows, they are never mentioned) can be used with two weapon fighting.

in the weapon description for the crossbow it says that you can fire (but not load) a crossbow with one hand

[Dolanar]

Seems like nothing to negate this option, but being that getting 6 hands for most PC's is nigh impossible it may never have come up...this is actually a cool concept, I applaud the ingenuity. I wonder if an Alchemist that takes the multiple Arm discovery could do something like this with short bows or light crossbows.

[Fenrisnorth]

http://www.nuklearpower.com/2009/01/27/episode-1087-exalted-feat/

that is all