I woke up just now and I always need a while before my engines start working. I will advance the topic a bit later today - I don't wish to give you a half-arsed post.
Steps back in amazement at the dancing prancing Iolana.
Oh ho? How's that? Her amazing paranoia? Or that I specifically built her to put things in a social setting in a bit sharper focus than "there be dragon! smash and receive loot!"
Or dat stealth? For shame with dat stealth.
Anyhoot, drumming up a post.
@Parneth: The man in the house is Pace (not the person who invited you, though I can see why Parneth would think so). Just making sure that this is clear.
Oh, I didn't read this closely enough to realize it was me either.
goodness gracious, and here I was thinking I had made my bard with an appropriate amount of caution...
how does anyone ever start adventures when the PCs are competing for the title of shiftiest dude hanging out in the shadows with his hood drawn up?
*tips hat to patcher*
I think the caution is defining of your character, Iolana, so I don't mind.
Though to be fair, with the riot that occurred and the dangers of the street, and the reputation of Gaedren Lamm, I'm not surprised everybody's cautious. Yeah, it's a little bit of a pain - the only potential problem is if it separates the PCs because they're being too cautious of one another.
Yeah, I am surly because my cat only allowed me 4 hours of sleep tonight. I'll drum up a plot movin' post to chill out people in the room, and give the others a reason to come in.
Coz Iolana's a bard, and that's her job.
Urgh, I can relate to the irritation of not getting enough sleep.
goodness gracious, and here I was thinking I had made my bard with an appropriate amount of caution...
how does anyone ever start adventures when the PCs are competing for the title of shiftiest dude hanging out in the shadows with his hood drawn up?
*tips hat to patcher*
Pace is not shifty, other than he is a little bit of a player. I was thinking last night that the Keep card is perfect for him because I had conceived of him as a relatively straight shooting and steady person.
Pace is not shifty, other than he is a little bit of a player. I was thinking last night that the Keep card is perfect for him because I had conceived of him as a relatively straight shooting and steady person.
Iolana's not too shifty, either, she's calculating, and given that, appropriately cautious. I am trying to lure the other two in so we can get a discussion going about what each one of us has seen or heard concerning the violence she witnessed and the current state of fear, to get an idea how extensive it is. It... is pretty much her assumption at this point that to give in to the fear and paranoia is only going to hurt each of them in the long run. And just edited my post to reflect that.
@ Chavakala:
Diplomacy checks do not influence PCs.
I know. If it was a Level 1 spell instead of a cantrip, I'd let the meta knowledge get in the way, but since its a cantrip it gives me a chance to show a bit of me style :) Plus, you never know when our mysterious organizer might show up...
Let me know if I am pushing a bit too hard. I am just coming off playing a bard in a solo campaign which has made me extremely aware of their role as leaders (my husband and GM says that they are inferior only to paladins) and how just sitting about waiting to investigate things as they are handed out is a recipe for running into some very nasty lower level things while their handlers slip out the back door.
As detailed in the post, Iolana recognizes that there is something much more at stake if the rulers do not care to keep the peace for the sake of maintaining economy, at the very least. Her somewhat vague knowledge of manner of Parneth's parents death makes her even more wary. The others... she is priming to learn more about just how many pies Gaerden Lamm's fingers have left spoiled.
@ Pace:
I attained a new understanding and more healthy respect for fighters. Essentially they're the good-natured men and women with no real flashy powers who protect what they care about from bad things. And since this is Pathfinder/D&D, many of those things are going to be monsters.
DMP- Would it be possible for me to switch my 13 in Dex to 13 in Int? The Int is currently 12, so it wouldn't make a difference in any of my rolls or anything. I failed to look at the prereqs for Combat Expertise, which is one of the main feats I want to take as I level.
DMP- Would it be possible for me to switch my 13 in Dex to 13 in Int? The Int is currently 12, so it wouldn't make a difference in any of my rolls or anything. I failed to look at the prereqs for Combat Expertise, which is one of the main feats I want to take as I level.
Feel free.
I apologise if my replies are infrequent or if my DMing is lacking currently. Summer brings back painful memories, and I'm struggling with nostalgia and depression.
It's cool, I think I post enough to keep things moving at a decent enough pace, and try to post as many options as I see available to get the others into the discussion as well. At least, I hope that is how it is being received.
@DM Patcher: I think you're doing great.
@Iolana: If I push too hard, let me know. Your caution is definitely at odds with Chavakala's borderline impetuousness.
I understand that you are playing your character.
Believe you me, I've played that one quite recently.
Don't worry too much. I have plans within plans. /bene gesserit
... besides which, this is how we learn to function as a group. one that roleplays that they all think as a unit right off the bat is pretty crud in my opinion. My IRL kingmaker group had their own little clique down before I even arrived on the scene, with the fighter cross classing in spellcraft for no good reason to attend to the wizard, and so on, and so forth.
That sorta meta is just contemptible.
Thank you both for your kind words. I have just replied - Zellara won't be attending your discussion too much (partially because I'm amazed at the level of roleplay and partially because she's an NPC) - she is mainly there to get you all together.
Chavakala, could I ask for your assistance in the Harrowing? The layout you made for the explanation was fantastic - could you set one up for us once this Harrowing is over? I think I have a good enough grasp on how to perform it in-character - and again, you have my thanks.
Sure, no problem
I'm having a great time so far. Good work!
I am seriously considering giving Iolana some sneaking abilities to accompany Djal on his little excursions. If it works out between them, she will be inclined to adapt her strategy a bit.
Honestly, this is the first time I have not thought much further ahead than a single level for a character, which is getting to be quite rare for me.
Think I'll wait on a reply to this latest batch until my morning time, at the earliest.
Four hours of sleep + insane heat + cold beer is not a recipe for intelligent RP postage.
Alright - I will soon hit the hay as well.
Also, it's your choice how to handle the interpretations in The Choosing. Since they give a benefit to an upcoming encounter, my inclination was to foreshadow that specific encounter. But, there's nothing wrong with how you're handling it.
Either way, that is one of the trickier parts about the mechanic because unlike the overall Harrow Points which the character can use anytime they choose, you will have to let them know or apply the bonuses for them in the Encounter where they get the bonus from The Choosing.
Set the ball to rawlin'.
Your court, gentlemen, and lady.
I must admit, I'm getting concerned with how things are going in-character.
I'll 2nd that. It's really not my intent to stir up this degree of conflict. I think most of us are in consent on a plan that leads to observation.My intent was to be a bit playful with Iolana's sense of caution and to try to set us on a path that balances planning and moving things along. But, apparently that's gone too far. My apologies.
The two perspectives are incongruous.
I built this bard specifically to be more of an arcane caster that could somewhat mimic a wizard in terms of knowledge skills, but have the utility to do the trickier social things as well. I am coming off of an intensely political game where if I don't think of at least three motivations for the actions of each NPC, it is highly likely that my character will lose people that she cares about.
Iolana is intelligent, rational, and with the exception of struggling for leadership with Chavakala, patient. As an arcane caster mimicking a wizard, she does not have perfect faith in the interpretation of the gods. Hence her post explaining the cards as she saw them, in concrete terms for Pace. A post which highlighted every one of her concerns about the greater picture in the city. That this Lamm guy is just the beginning, and not knowing who is protecting him is likely going to cost the entire group.
They are five, she gets that. Djal is skilled, Pace can likely hurt things and protect the more delicate members of the group, she gets that, she just does not want to appeal to the intangible "faith" that everything is going to work out in the end because we are all buddies.
I never really liked how APs just assume that characters will trust each other 100% off the bat. The reality is that Iolana and Chavakala are high charisma ladies, which equates to a high force of will. There, Chavakala has a mechanical advantage, but Iolana has a staggering mental advantage on the whole. All she has heard from the younger girl is "Hey, let's all get together and go out on the empty streets and play detectives, then when I decide that it is cool, we'll go leeroy jenkins and bash in the door! It'll work guys, coz I have faith in US."
Iolana's perspective, as she has said, is that they cannot know what the acid user's abilties are, but she assumes that between him and the guy teaching the kids to pick pocket, there are some traps afoot. She has to assume that, because she is trying to keep everyone safe. Casualties are accounted for, but, heck, c'mon people, it should be common sense! Swat doesn't kick down doors without having a detailed briefing first. Their briefing has been cards drawn with magic. She's an intelligent arcane caster. It just don't fly.
Sorry, but if playing my character the way I envisioned her is detrimental to the group as a whole, I will bow out. I have another PbP lined up, and I am GMing as well, so I definitely do not need the added frustration.
I am leaving Friday for around ten days. I'll be nowhere near a computer. Feel free to NPC me.
Alright, I will do as much. What kind of actions would Djal do? Is he aggressive? Cautious? Could you give me a couple of descriptive terms so I don't do Djal injustice?
Iolana, are you content with how everything played out in the end?
Should we exchange email addresses in case we have any problems posting or whatever?
If you need to get a hold of me for any reason, you can reach me at
likegreyskies at gmail dot com
Yeah, I can heel. Just my character's unique perspective that some crazy spaghetti monster in the sky slapping cards down on the table shouldn't an informed opinion count when it comes to breaking skulls, especially since three of us are squishy.
And she sees more than the group, and plans accordingly. Just... needed to get told that doing so isn't their cup of tea, so she'll do it for them and take the backseat to whatever Chavakala wants to do and try to keep them all out of trouble on her own.
Ooor it could work out that the things she was concerned about will come to pass and the group will recognize that her analytical skills are an asset and not something that is impeding their immediate goals. A bard can always hope.
Or, it could be that Iolana will learn that there is more to her heritage than language and scarves.
As far as squishies go, we have a fighter, a ranger filling the typical rogue role, a cleric (who went with toughness for a feat, tell me he's not planning to go into melee), and a bard and an oracle filling the wizard role (who both went with toughness too). I'd better shut up, DM Patcher will start upping the encounters.
And I don't get stupid or hasty out of any of the characters, just a group trying to balance planning and action. I admire you for playing a cautious character. It's not going to be easy.
"You are correct, the use for caution ended when we stepped out of this house together," I say flatly. "And further dalliance in the street is not going to lessen the blow. Let's go," I agree, to this fabled tavern which will support five perfect strangers, two of whom are kitted out in preparation for war in a time of extreme fear for a flash of small coin but do not voice this opinion.
Hu5tru/Iolana, I have had growing concerns about the 'tactics' you use in this game. I wrote a first post about it that I deleted in the end, preferring to focus on bringing the group together. Your recent posts have made it clear that I need to say something about your 'style' of play.
Not wanting to put intentions in your actions, as I am not in your head, I'll focus instead on how I receive them. Simply put, I find them disruptive and dismissive of others. Therefore, I refuse to play further in the same game as you.
Until you've remove yourself from this game, consider that I am out.
I agree with Dreaming Warforged. I have found Iolana's posts needlessly confrontational and counter-productive. On a meta level there is an unspoken agreement among the players and GM that you will try work together to move the plot of the adventure forward. There may be difference of opinions on means and some characters can be less agreeable, but a basic level of cooperation should be expected. Leadership in a group is earned and given by consensus. GM Patcher's attempt to address Iolana's attitude/actions resulted in more passive-agressive posts. Based on this it seems unlikely that Iolana's pattern will change. I would like to continue this game, but I don't think I will enjoy it if she continues to play.
DM Patcher and all players, if I am out of line here, then I apologize and will hope you're willing to write this off to different play styles. My perspective is that Gray is a city district and that Citadel Volshyenek is a significant landmark given that it is home to the Korvosan Guard. Chavakala is not a native of Korvosa, but has visited for extended periods and spent time looking for the source of the Shiver that killed her sister. She does not have the more obscure knowledge that a local would have and thus does not have knowledge (local) as a skill. Knowledge (local) checks for who the rulers are, major landmarks, city districts, etc seems excessive when we are trying to establish characters with ties to the city. If DM Patcher would like to run a tighter ship on that type of knowledge I am more than willing to comply.
As to the rest, I am disappointed that we do not seem to be able to find common ground. This is a social game. A healthy rivalry makes for an interesting (and if played right, fun) game, but we have to get along well enough to advance the game. I don't like coming to the boards fearing for what I have inadvertently stirred up, but I refuse to be bullied into submission. I deliberately did not respond to your post Sunday in hopes that we would reconcile things, but your reply to DM Patcher today and recent in-character posts make it clear that's not going to happen. I do not wish to see Dreaming Warforged/Djal leave.
What makes this difficult for me is that I do my best to stay unbiased, to be the third party in regards of your in-character interactions. But with Dreaming Warforged and Pace. Iolana, I fear you were out of line.
I agree with you, Chavakala, as well. I don't think you were out of line to know the basics of Korvosa - it simply makes your character more organic, to know the districts and some local people, in my opinion.
And to address your last paragraph as well: I take on the job as a DM to guide the players through an adventure, a team and a group - but as I mentioned, I also stay unbiased. I have difficulties responding to your interactions in group - because I am not there, as a character. Strictly speaking, your in-character attitudes towards one another are 'none of my business'. Yet there is a strain in the party relationship here.
I want to hear both Parneth/Deevor and Iolana/hu5tru's opinions before I make any judgement.
I am sad that we're at this impasse.
After a day with no response from Iolana, whatever her reasons, I initially decided that because of her poor behaviour she would no longer be part of this campaign.
But truth be told, with the entire mess as it happened I have also lost a lot of my motivation to keep this group running. With the good beginning of the adventure going sour the way it did, trying to carry on only leaves me with bitter feelings.
As such, I will end this campaign. Dreaming Warforged/Djal, Deevor/Parneth, michaelane/Chavakala and Pace/The Dorf, this is not fair for you - but I don't think I could do CotCT currently.
I would be willing to run another AP for you (same characters or different ones, your choice) if you are interested.
I apologise for what has happened. Sincerely.
Thank you for your dedication. You guys were some of the best roleplayers I have had. I hope to DM for you in the future.
|
Apologies for not replying here, I didn't look too much here as I was trying to keep going in the game and missed all this. I must say i found it hard with Iolana, which is a shame because I thought we could have had a great little group going, with the backstories and stuff.
Maybe it was my thick skin, which ignored some of Iolana's directions and comments thus allowing me to plough on in a different direction, which at least ended in a bit of group cohesion.
Thanks DM Patcher, for getting it all started and whilst I wuld enjoy you DMing me again, I particularly want to try and get parneth into a CotCT game. For the most part it was enjoyable, but it was more difficult to navigate than most due to the group dynamics.
Thanks to the players who maybe I'll meet again on another adventure, though perhaps Iolana might take heed and temper her words. I would have found it much easier if Iolana was written in 3rd person, it might help.
It is a shame that the game didn't get to work out. Overall it was fun until things got so tense. Thanks for running though DM Patcher. I would be interested in another game if you started one. I have been itching to play Legacy of Fire, but I think I have seen that you are already running a group through that AP so you may not be interested in doing two groups at the same time.
Again, my apologies. As for LoF - I am already running two games, so a third one would be out of the question, sorry to say.
I understand your concerns Patcher. It probably is the best thing to do.
Thank you for the game and I hope we get a chance to play together again sometime.
Thank you DM Patcher and teammates. I'm disappointed in how it ended, but would very much like to play with you again. I'm game for any of the APs. I would particularly like to play Rise of the Runelords or Council of Thieves. But, I have two other suggestions. One is Jade Regent. We're only a month away and it's plenty of time for a good set of concepts. The other is that I've been noodling the idea of a homebrew set around Storasta in the Worldwound. Might take me a few days to finish the players guide, but I've needed a kick to get that going and maybe this is it.
Btw Parneth, I really want to get Chavakala into another CotCT game too so maybe those characters can meet again in better circumstances.
I was planning on starting Jade Regent in the end of July - as well as a Kingmaker or Serpent's Skull game (depending on several factors). I might start a RotRL game too, since it seems to be very sought after on the forums.
I was planning on starting Jade Regent in the end of July - as well as a Kingmaker or Serpent's Skull game (depending on several factors). I might start a RotRL game too, since it seems to be very sought after on the forums.
I would definitely be in for Jade Regent, Kingmaker, or RotRL. I'm already in a Serpent's Skull game, so I would prefer not to do that one.
I would be interested in Jade Regent too...
In a Serpent Skull and DMing Legacy of Fire in one of the RL groups.
Contact through deevor at live d0t com