...if you took a social or skill feat that was not a prerequisite.
I like the Cosmopolitan feat on many of my characters that have any class at all. Not so much for the grunts... but wizards, clerics, city rogues that kind of thing.
And most of my fighter types have some form of crafting or profession skill.
(Raises Hand)
In the days of 3.5 (and when I was active in the RPGA), I have a Bard whose primary focus was on Diplomacy - I took both Negotiator and Skill Focus by 3rd level.
*raise*
I always give my rogues a completely unassociated profession skill as a 'cover identity.' My favorite is Profession: Confectioner. I also give any fighter characters whose backgrounds are mercenary-ish ranks in Profession: Soldier or Profession: Bodyguard.
EDIT: You meant the feats. I also routinely take Deft Hands and/ or Stealthy. That extra +2/+4 helps!
On almost every character I've rolled.
Including buying the Cosmo feat.
My former bard took skill focus: perform (string instruments), even though total modifier doesn't help one jot with bardic abilities, I just like being the best darn performer I can.
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Cosmopolitan is a common one for me. Because (just for example) my Allan Quatermain inspired Ranger needs Diplomacy and Sense Motive as class skills for dealing with primitive tribes.
Skill Focus on a Perform skill is also looking likely for my Drow Bard in the evil campaign I'm playing in (though it's a few levels down the road), since it'll effectively enhance two skills by +6 or so (I'd be taking it at 9th) for a single Feat.
Breadth of Experience is also fabulous and has been a feature of a few characters I played (notably, my Doppleganger Paladin).
Aside from those three, most of the Social and Skill Feats just aren't worth it, either thematically or mechanically.
I hadn't spotted Breadth of Experience before! thanks for sharing :)
...if you took a social or skill feat that was not a prerequisite.
I rolled up a rogue once whose MO was to seduce and swindle NPCs to the advantage of the party, and to avoid combat at all costs. She wouldn't try to stop combat, she tried to stay out of it. She was also the party's quest giver since she was a traveling merchant. The GM allowed her to start with a wagon full of mundane goods for trading, and she hired the other PCs to protect her while she traveled.
[nerd rage]Only lasted one session because that GM's girlfriend controls his life.[/unnecessary addendum]
Skill Focus: Perform (Acting) on my Bard for Versatile Performance, to make a master of disguise/lying. Our games are usually fairly straightforward, so I have to get creative to make good opportunities to use these, and they're often more for my own amusement than to advance the game. But it's a fun idea and it just looks so darn good on the sheet.
I've had several characters who have spent skill ranks on Cooking, Innkeeping, and Librarian crafts\professions... not a world-class level, but enough to jive with a background and personality I wanted to go with.
I have two half-elf characters with Skill Focus (perception), but I suspect that doesn't really count.
Pretty much all of my characters do this. My druid still pumps skill points into bow and arrow making because she wants to be the best bow and arrow maker she can be. My witch pumps skill points into social skills because he's a flamboyant character. My fighter put skills into gambling with dice.
In most cases my characters invest skill points into things that are part of their backstory and I see as continuing to develop an interest or hobby. On occasion a good GM will work these things into the campaign.
I once had a wizard who pumped skills into architecture. In time he became a renowned architect who built palaces for kings. On one occasion his architecture knowledge helped solve a riddle that was needed to complete a quest.
I'm playing an enchantress right now with both Deceitful and Persuasive. I take the feats my (tiny viper) familiar tells me too. Just hit 10th level Friday, so they all doubled plus Enchanting Smile went up. Makes for some impressive skill checks for non-class skills. I keep on thinking of taking cosmopolitan, but A) it's a little overkill at this point, and B) I need to use -some- of my feats on minor things like spell focus: enchantment and similar feats...
I will often throw a rank at craft or profession skills that fit character backgrounds. Skill points are a lot easier to come up with. There are never enough feats to go around, so I very rarely spend them on "fluff" (but do from time to time)
I often take Profession or Craft skills.
Feats: skill focus/cosmopolitan
My current character (for a soon-to-be-starting KM campaign) has Profession: groom and Cosmopolitan.
Feat, no I can't say that I have. But, I have dumped eidolon evolution points into the skilled evolution, which does boost skills.
I love taking flavorful options instead of crunchy min-maxing ones, I loved that old 3.x feat Jack of All Trades, Cosmo is looking really hot in my gaming group now, and no matter what, my characters always have a Perform, a Craft and/or a Profession skill, it just feels like an empty mook suit without at least some of those, at least for me.
I have, i like having characters who are good at social skills. Though being gruff and abrasive can be fun, I prefer characters that can rationally be charming and persuasive. My current character a magus took extra traits to use a trait to add diplomacy as a class skill, and will probably take another social feat in a few levels.
I have, i like having characters who are good at social skills. Though being gruff and abrasive can be fun, I prefer characters that can rationally be charming and persuasive.
See I don't really believe a character that is gruff and abrasive necessarily can't be charming when the situation arises.
I am normally very aloof and quiet, but I can turn on the charm if I have to talk my way out of a mess. That's why I believe investing in skills is giving the character that third dimension, making it feel like a living, breading person instead of a bunch of stats in a sheet of paper.
I am just commenting on what you wrote by the way, it's not an argument or anything, and I didn't mean to imply that your post somehow entertains the idea that if a character is gruff he can't be persuasive.
I am thinking of Athletic for my beast-totem barbarian. This feat will also be popular in the Pirate Ap. Plenty of swimming and climbing in a ship based game.
I have, i like having characters who are good at social skills. Though being gruff and abrasive can be fun, I prefer characters that can rationally be charming and persuasive.See I don't really believe a character that is gruff and abrasive necessarily can't be charming when the situation arises.
I am normally very aloof and quiet, but I can turn on the charm if I have to talk my way out of a mess. That's why I believe investing in skills is giving the character that third dimension, making it feel like a living, breading person instead of a bunch of stats in a sheet of paper.
I am just commenting on what you wrote by the way, it's not an argument or anything, and I didn't mean to imply that your post somehow entertains the idea that if a character is gruff he can't be persuasive.
Certainly someone who is not particularly charming can be persuasive, thats why stats and abilities are not one in the same. But the aloof quiet type isnt the kind of character I enjoy. I like all 3 dimensions, the stats/abilities, the skills and the personality to be social and interact positively with npcs. I just find it more fun. Nothing wrong with doing things differently, thats just my preference.
Does the Additional Traits feat count? I tend to go that route since it often nets a +1 trait bonus and makes it a class skill (for another +3)
If you take it to get social abilities then i'd say yes (I included it in my above example).
*Raises hand*
My cleric had a maxed-out Sense Motive skill and put about 7-8 ranks into Intimidate. Didn't use them for anything other than social interactions.
My last PC has Noble Scion, and he is an elf which hurts a bit at first level for him being a Dervish Magus... but the flavor is good, although the "power" is lame.
*raises hand*
my sorceror had skill focus bluff, however as it was decided that almost all my bluffs were unbelievable, I avoided bluff from that moment on.
*raises hand*
I love 3.5 beguilers, so I usually spend a good amount of focus on my social skills. Mainly bluff (of course), but also diplomacy and sense motive. I usually go half-elf which gives me skill focus for one (usually bluff) and I will usually take skill focus diplomacy as well. I love playing skill based characters (though I'll occasionally roll up a heavy hitter), so those feats often come into play for me.
Certainly someone who is not particularly charming can be persuasive, thats why stats and abilities are not one in the same. But the aloof quiet type isnt the kind of character I enjoy. I like all 3 dimensions, the stats/abilities, the skills and the personality to be social and interact positively with npcs. I just find it more fun. Nothing wrong with doing things differently, thats just my preference.
Exactly, I expressed myself poorly, I meant just what you said, I just wanted to comment on the idea of playing a gruff character is no excuse for not having a personality or not wanting to invest in social skills/skills in general.
*raises hand*
I love 3.5 beguilers, so I usually spend a good amount of focus on my social skills. Mainly bluff (of course), but also diplomacy and sense motive. I usually go half-elf which gives me skill focus for one (usually bluff) and I will usually take skill focus diplomacy as well. I love playing skill based characters (though I'll occasionally roll up a heavy hitter), so those feats often come into play for me.
Man I loved the beguiler. Its still available at my table because it is one of my all time favorite classes. Though at higher levels it was a tough choice between messing with thier minds magically, or using skills to lie and cheat. Both were so much fun I could never decide...sometimes I did both.
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Currently enjoying Skill Focus - Knowledge: Local
Developer
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PFS: My retired fighter/paladin took Extra Traits, used it to get training in skills.
Non-PFS: Though I've yet to reach the proper level, a ranger I'm playing in a PbP is going all-out perception. 3.5 is legal in that game, and I'm taking some feats that let me do near-blindsight things (eventually).
I've also played a great deal of social characters who focus on those skills through feats.
Anytime I end up playing a different system, I often end up playing the face (especially in Shadowrun). While said system may not have feats, I focus a lot of my build on the social.
I once had a dwarven fighter who had max ranks in proffesion chef. It used to be amusing when people realized all that gear i was carrying was a portable table, chairs and place settings, as well as cooking equipment.
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I had a Fighter/Barbarian character that had max ranks in a craft skill and also took the feat that allowed him to craft magical arms and armor (without being a caster).
Another character (barbarian/sorcerer/dragon disciple) has ranks in all of the social skills, as well as skill focus (intimidate), the intimidating glare rage ability, AND the feat that allows you to add your str mod to intimidate checks. He's a scary fellow.
Personally I think having feats & abilities like these give your character tons of flavor. Given they're not required to add flavor, but I always like it when characters take feats and skills that relate to how their character behaves.
Pre-requisite for what?
Oh... A prestige class?
LOL.
*puts hand up*
They must have some pretty generic PCs where you're from if your hand is still down.
If Leadership isn't a social feat, what would you call it?
If Leadership isn't a social feat, what would you call it?
An additional character of lower power feat.
I've chosen Cosmopolitan and Persuasive before, just because it suited the characters in question (a witch and an enchanter, respectively). If I can, sometimes I like a mix of "must-haves" and social/skill-related Feats.
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Does it count if you get it for free becuase of a class ability?