How would you adjudicate this?
Situation: Unseen Servant is adjacent to you. On your turn the Unseen Servant reaches into your pouch (in this case a Handy Haversack) (using up a Move Action) and then hands it to you (another Move Action?).
If you wanted to drink the potion, would you have to still use a Move Action to take the potion from their hand before you drank it? Or because the Unseen Servant spent a Move Action to reach into your square and put the bottle in front of you you can use a Free Action to grab the bottle before spending a Move Action to drink it?
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Move action (no AoO) to direct an active spell. As part of this action (i.e., not an action) you can hold out your hand.
Unseen servant gets the item out of your pack and places it in your hand. edit: This is a full-round action regardless of the handy haversack, because the unseen servant is not the wearer of the haversack and can't activate its special power.
Standard action (provokes AoO) to drink a potion.
In this case, the spell doesn't give you any particular benefit except to look cool and wizardy, but if you had an ordinary backpack, it would save you a standard action and an AoO.
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handy haversack will do this job better than unseen servant
handy haversack will do this job better than unseen servantProbably, but the question asked was not which was better, but will it work.
true but th OP is obviously looking for a good way to easily access his potions which in this case is the handy haversack. beside Starglim has already outlined how unseen servants works in this instance.
Forgot about the Move Action to direct the spell.
Move action (no AoO) to direct an active spell. As part of this action (i.e., not an action) you can hold out your hand.
Are you talking about "Some spells allow you to redirect the effect to new targets or areas after you cast the spell. Redirecting a spell is a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity", or is there another rule you are referencing? I'm not sure Unseen Servant uses that line about redirecting the target of an active spell (US doesn't have a target). Does it really take a move action to direct an unseen servant to do something?
Move action (no AoO) to direct an active spell. As part of this action (i.e., not an action) you can hold out your hand.Are you talking about "Some spells allow you to redirect the effect to new targets or areas after you cast the spell. Redirecting a spell is a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity", or is there another rule you are referencing? I'm not sure Unseen Servant uses that line about redirecting the target of an active spell (US doesn't have a target). Does it really take a move action to direct an unseen servant to do something?
it requires you to change its command to do something differen't
for example if you told it stand next to me it would keep standing next to you or at least try to during the fight remember its limited to 15 feet speed. You would then need to command it to find and hand you a potion from your sack.
another way you could do it
Unseen servant hold these two potions, stand next to me and follow me if I move, If I grab a potion from your hand let it go.
thus you've just created a walking belt you can draw from , the same as if you'd worn a belt with 2 potions attached to it.
Why not try having the unseen servant pour a potion in your mouth instead of just handing it to you?
The way its setup right now you are using a standard action (best case scenario) or a standard and a move plus the actions of your servant.
Why not try having the unseen servant pour a potion in your mouth instead of just handing it to you?
you have to issue a command to get it to change what it doing in this case stop holding a potion and pour it down your throat.
vs having him just standing there with potions ready to be grabbed
overall its not really an intended use for unseen servant as mentioned there are better options available for inventory management during combat.
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I see nothing in the spell description that says it takes a move action to direct. In fact, it says it acts when commanded, which makes me think all you ever need do is talk as a free action.
The "move action to direct" is for things like flaming sphere or spiritual weapon. I really don't believe it applies here.
1) Summon unseen servant.
2) Give it a command to follow you and when you say "Potion" to take the top potion out of the bag and hand it to you.
3) When you need the potion use a free action to say "Potion>'
4) profit
of course what action is required to take a potion being offered to you considering drinking a potion already in hand is a std action
isnt there that swift drinker trait lets you drink as a move or swift or something ?
accelerated drinker ?
of course what action is required to take a potion being offered to you considering drinking a potion already in hand is a std action
isnt there that swift drinker trait lets you drink as a move or swift or something ?
accelerated drinker ?
Accelerated DrinkerBenefit: You may drink a potion as a move action instead of a standard action as long as you start your turn with the potion in your hand.
I wonder how that would work with Alchemist extracts... Carry 2 extracts, one in either hand, as you're dungeoneering. Pop both buffs in a full round.
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Nobody has cited a rule that would convince me that directing an unseen servant is a move action. The specific rule I quoted is about changing the target of a spell and US doesn't have a target. It doesn't require concentration to use an US, so those rules don't apply. Which rule in which section? Otherwise, I'm thinking Ravingdork is right, free action to speak a command.
I do agree you wouldn't want an US trying to pour a potion down your throat during combat, if that action is even possible. But why can't it use it's action to hand you something, making it a free action on your part?
How about an intelligent "Ioun Stone" with a continuous unseen servant spell on it? How much would you allow that magic item to do?
Phasics, what other "better options available for inventory management during combat" are you talking about.
Pouring a potion down another person's throat is a full round action -- this is covered in either the combat or potions section -- don't remember which.
Other uses for an unseen servant:
Reloading crossbows
Sending something to another character (unseen servant draws it and moves to the other character for you).
Front man for non-intelligent enemies -- Have it hold a lantern and wear robes while walking in front of the party.
Assist the fighter in putting his armor on.
Pick up weapons (wands, whatever) as you drop them.
How would you adjudicate this?
Situation: Unseen Servant is adjacent to you. On your turn the Unseen Servant reaches into your pouch (in this case a Handy Haversack) (using up a Move Action) and then hands it to you (another Move Action?).
If you wanted to drink the potion, would you have to still use a Move Action to take the potion from their hand before you drank it? Or because the Unseen Servant spent a Move Action to reach into your square and put the bottle in front of you you can use a Free Action to grab the bottle before spending a Move Action to drink it?
Several things here.
First it would be a full-round action to get an item out of your handy haversack, if that's even allowable.. frankly I would not even think that it would be. After all an enemy could not do so, right?
Second, what you are really talking about here is trying to avoid the move action to take a potion into your hand. That's not occurring. When making a ruling like this you want to be consistent. You would not (or at least should not) let someone else 'hand off' an item without charging a move action on the part of the recipient to pick up the item. The 'handing over' move action on the part of the giver is making the item accessible to you, when otherwise it would not be (needing a standard action to steal it, require the taker to pin the 'giver', disarm etc).
Third towards having the servant pour a potion down an unconscious person's throat. This is a fine action as the target is not moving/defending themselves/taking actions. In the case of someone in combat I would think it impossible.
Unseen servants are wonderful, but the guideline is what you would let an untrained person be able to do. And I don't think that you would want to let a 1st level commoner with 10s in everything be able to pour a potion down a PC's throat or take items out of their backpack while the PC is fighting. At least I would not allow this...
Many things, but in general I agree, I would not allow someone else to take an item off another character as a move action, that would be a standard action in my book if I even allow it. Now an unseen servant carrying a potion and handing it to you I would judge to be a free action on your part. I recall a fancy spell from 3.5, bigby's helping hand (2nd level I think) that did something similar along with giving you an effective aid another on some actions.
Pouring a potion down another person's throat is a full round action -- this is covered in either the combat or potions section -- don't remember which.
No it's not. It's a full round action to administer a potion to an unconscious target. As such, it doesn't apply to an unseen event in this instance, unless you are unconscious.
Also, everyone keeps talking about potions? What about oils? An unseen servant could easily splash you with a healing oil or an enlarge person oil even while you're moving about (or at least, more easily than he could get you to drink it in the same situation).
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Accelerated Drinker...
I wonder how that would work with Alchemist extracts... Carry 2 extracts, one in either hand, as you're dungeoneering. Pop both buffs in a full round.
Doesn't work for extracts according to the FAQ.
Accelerated Drinker...
I wonder how that would work with Alchemist extracts... Carry 2 extracts, one in either hand, as you're dungeoneering. Pop both buffs in a full round.
Doesn't work for extracts according to the FAQ.
Wow, and no exposition on that one huh? Obviously it wasn't intended to allow a character to cast 2 spells for such a cheap price, so I can understand why. Just doesn't make good common sense!
Do you have a problem with a circle of 5 characters performing actions like the following:PC 1 with wand in hand: Standard action use wand, move action 'hand wand over to #2'.
PC 2: free action take wand, standard action use wand, move action hand wand over to #3
Etc.Personally I see it as a move action to make the item accessible to be taken.
It is then a move action to take it just like it would be to draw it from a sheathe/accessible storage.
Good point, must think about this.
I see nothing in the spell description that says it takes a move action to direct. In fact, it says it acts when commanded, which makes me think all you ever need do is talk as a free action.
The "move action to direct" is for things like flaming sphere or spiritual weapon. I really don't believe it applies here.
+1
Good point, must think about this.
Do you have a problem with a circle of 5 characters performing actions like the following:PC 1 with wand in hand: Standard action use wand, move action 'hand wand over to #2'.
PC 2: free action take wand, standard action use wand, move action hand wand over to #3
Etc.Personally I see it as a move action to make the item accessible to be taken.
It is then a move action to take it just like it would be to draw it from a sheathe/accessible storage.
Considering that, it's reasonable to time accepting an item from someone as a move action. (If you want to in-game rationalize it, the giver has to get the acceptor's attention, and make the motion to hand over the item; the accepter has to move their hand tot he item, grab it, and pull it back to their person. That could take anywhere from 1 to 2 seconds)
This still lets the two characters get two charges of wand off in 1 round, though.
I assume the unseen servant is doing nothing but making the item to be drawn accesible in the round and moving with you, so it uses a standard action to make the item readily available. Perhaps you are right and it is too lenient, I think in 3.5 offering an item as a free action was a specific benefit of the Helping Hand spell (a 2nd level spell) so it might be beyond unseen servant.
You could arguably still gain some benefit for easy swapping releasing an item as a free action to be held by the unseen servant.
The swap around wand action is a 'flaw' in turn based actions more than a flaw in action itself, afterall a line of 10,000 men could pass a wand from the 1st in the line to the 2nd in line regardless if they do not use it even with your interpretation, an impressive feat considering a round is just 6 seconds.
My character has spent time out of combat practicing with both mage hand and unseen servant giving potions to unconscious people.
Another thing we allow in our game is a "potion bandolier" which allows you to draw a potion as part of a move action instead of digging around in your pack for it.
Pouring a potion down another person's throat is a full round action -- this is covered in either the combat or potions section -- don't remember which.
it is covered in Magic Items: Potions
A character can carefully administer a potion to an unconscious creature as a full-round action, trickling the liquid down the creature's throat. Likewise, it takes a full-round action to apply an oil to an unconscious creature.
However, given that the target is conscious, id think the time would be shortened.
@ravingdork
why can't you help a concious person drink a potion? Aid Another? Seems inconsistent to believe you could help a person in this way but only if they were unconscious.
@ravingdork
why can't you help a concious person drink a potion? Aid Another? Seems inconsistent to believe you could help a person in this way but only if they were unconscious.
I never claimed that you couldn't administer a potion to a conscious character, only that it wasn't a full round action to do so.
About the wand passing trick, doesn't it say the DM can limit them to a reasonable number? That can stop that trick.
I never claimed that you couldn't administer a potion to a conscious character, only that it wasn't a full round action to do so.@ravingdork
why can't you help a concious person drink a potion? Aid Another? Seems inconsistent to believe you could help a person in this way but only if they were unconscious.
Honestly I would think that it would be more difficult to feed a potion to a conscious PC that's in the middle of a fight than one that's lying down still.
-James
Same. If I were running a game and were to allow something like that, it would require a dex check, and probably still provoke.
About the wand passing trick, doesn't it say the DM can limit them to a reasonable number? That can stop that trick.
And by Them, I mean free actions.
About the wand passing trick, doesn't it say the DM can limit them to a reasonable number? That can stop that trick.And by Them, I mean free actions.
The example only has 1 free action taken per person per turn, so that rule doesn't apply here.
I think Legend of the Shining Jewel has potion belts in their campaign guide. You might want to give it a look, if your DM allows it.
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Wow, and no exposition on that one huh? Obviously it wasn't intended to allow a character to cast 2 spells for such a cheap price, so I can understand why. Just doesn't make good common sense!
Well you could think about it in terms of the old days with potions and potion like things where drinking one while affected by another equaled super deadly poison or who knows what.
I always liked that aspect of them, how magic was always a little dangerous to use when it was in a form anyone could take advantage of.
There is the Sipping Jacket, and I recall reading about a Potion Cap [=beer cap, 2 potion capacity].
Tell the Unseen Servant to fill your jacket. Move action. Consume potion from jacket. Swift action. Attack. Standard action.
Wish I could find the reference to the cap. Have the servant refill any empty potion with one from your pack. Left gets cure light wounds, right gets heroism. No redirecting needed, since it only acts when a potion is used.
I see nothing in the spell description that says it takes a move action to direct. In fact, it says it acts when commanded, which makes me think all you ever need do is talk as a free action.
The "move action to direct" is for things like flaming sphere or spiritual weapon. I really don't believe it applies here.
Under Aiming a Spell is the text:
"Some spells allow you to redirect the effect to new targets or areas after you cast the spell. Redirecting a spell is a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity."This is what is being referred to.
/cevah