For one thing until 7th level a lion companion is only a medium so it is not suitable for a mount. So assuming the character is at least 7th level what I would do would be to delay the extra abilities for being a paladins mount. This would mean no spell resistance.
7th level treated as an animal companion
11th level gains 6 INT
15th level gains celestial template
Hey guys, I have a character that is about to make a pally in my game after his last character died. He was asking about mounts, and we talked about giving him a lion mount, even though it is more powerful (by alot) than a warhorse it seems like. Does anyone have any advice on giving paladins different mounts than horses? If this is going to blow up in my face I'd like to know ahead of time lol.
Personally, I have no problem with it - a medium-sized paladin can use any large-size quadriped as a mount. The fact that any mount uses the animal companion progression basically builds the balance right in.
However, most of the available companion animals aren't large-sized until the level 7 upgrade -- that would be the issue that slows most of this down.
Having said that, my current party's paladin has a large wolf - he called him late.
My paladin rides an axebeak :D - nothing more awesome as a mount!
His character died at level 7, so he's rolling another level 7, so it works out =)
My paladin has a Lion as his bonded creature, but I actually don't use it as my mount. I find that I can maintain a greater field presence (prevent the bad stuff from getting near the squishies) by riding a horse and having my lion attack by my side. It also allows for flanking bonuses.
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not to be a stick in the mud, but i would only allow a paladin to have a lion for a mount in the most epic homebrew games ( while others are playing trolls and summoners^^) there is a reason only certain mounts where listed in the entry, because you are already a incredibly potent boss slayer and adding a pouncing ball of damage does not seem fair.
this is just my opinion. (axebeaks are more balanced and awesome!)
When I DM'ed the shackled city campaign I arranged for the party paladin to earn a winged-celestial tiger as a mount. It was super fun for him and me.
not to be a stick in the mud, but i would only allow a paladin to have a lion for a mount in the most epic homebrew games ( while others are playing trolls and summoners^^) there is a reason only certain mounts where listed in the entry, because you are already a incredibly potent boss slayer and adding a pouncing ball of damage does not seem fair.
this is just my opinion. (axebeaks are more balanced and awesome!)
Honestly, I find my lion to not be that great of a damage dealer. BAB progression isn't too special, the Claws are secondary attacks that take a penalty, his CMB isn't too special against most targets to succeed in a Grab, and if my DM throws anything at us that requires a save, he's almost guaranteed to fail it. It actually becomes a bit of a liability.
My party has a Ranger who rides a camel (animal companion), a Zen archer riding a panther, Paladin riding a Dire Wolf (bonded mount) Paladin riding a Horse with Savage Warrior levels (bonded mount), a dog-riding cavalier, and a werewolf who moves faster than anything else in the party.
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My party has a Ranger who rides a camel (animal companion), a Zen archer riding a panther, Paladin riding a Dire Wolf (bonded mount) Paladin riding a Horse with Savage Warrior levels (bonded mount), a dog-riding cavalier, and a werewolf who moves faster than anything else in the party.
your group sure likes your mounts!
Honestly, I find my lion to not be that great of a damage dealer. BAB progression isn't too special, the Claws are secondary attacks that take a penalty, his CMB isn't too special against most targets to succeed in a Grab, and if my DM throws anything at us that requires a save, he's almost guaranteed to fail it. It actually becomes a bit of a liability.not to be a stick in the mud, but i would only allow a paladin to have a lion for a mount in the most epic homebrew games ( while others are playing trolls and summoners^^) there is a reason only certain mounts where listed in the entry, because you are already a incredibly potent boss slayer and adding a pouncing ball of damage does not seem fair.
this is just my opinion. (axebeaks are more balanced and awesome!)
The lion's claws are at a full bonus
The lion's claws are at a full bonus
Are you sure? I was told that they were Secondary Attacks that come at a -5 penalty...
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plus it should have devotion ( so will saves should be better) as long as you dont get your lion a saddle of resistance( +50% more cost due to nontypical body slot) or protective items then its not that bad. my group always pimps their rides so to speak and there rides are as good as some of the characters (better than some)
Well, it's a mounted combat campaign I'm running, so yeah, it's kinda the point.
The lion's claws are at a full bonusAre you sure? I was told that they were Secondary Attacks that come at a -5 penalty...
That's 3.x -- in PF, all Claw, Bite, Slam, Gore, Sting and Talon attacks are considered primary. (Unless otherwise noted).
So your lion should get 3 attacks at its full BAB, will full strength bonus.
The lion's claws are at a full bonusAre you sure? I was told that they were Secondary Attacks that come at a -5 penalty...
Positive. Look at the statblock of the lion. Same bonus of bite. That and Pounce are why lions are so powerful. 3 attavks at full BAB on a charge. Give him Rhino Hide armor and thats just ridiculous.
The lion's claws are at a full bonusAre you sure? I was told that they were Secondary Attacks that come at a -5 penalty...Positive. Look at the statblock of the lion. Same bonus of bite. That and Pounce are why lions are so powerful. 3 attavks at full BAB on a charge. Give him Rhino Hide armor and thats just ridiculous.
Hm...what will Multiattack do then?
Er. Aren't you forgetting rake? So, 5 attacks on charge, right?
Er. Aren't you forgetting rake? So, 5 attacks on charge, right?
I thought Rake only worked while grappling... O.o
Are you saying that with Pounce+Rake, you can charge, get a Bite attack and 4 claws??
1) I might be wrong
2) For tigers, bite adds grapple, so theoretically, you bite->grapple, clawwwwws
Ah. There it is. Under universal monster qualities, a monster cannot begin a grapple and rake in the same round, rake attacks may only be used against grappled opponents. Done. So I am wrong.
Ah. There it is. Under universal monster qualities, a monster cannot begin a grapple and rake in the same round, rake attacks may only be used against grappled opponents. Done. So I am wrong.
Wrong again. Read pounce. Creatures with Pounce can use rake during pounce.
So thats 5 attacks. At full BAB. An extra 10d6 with Rhino's Hide, and an extra 10d6 with an amulet of mighty fists (holy). And 5x mStr.
Lions are powerful.
Ah. There it is. Under universal monster qualities, a monster cannot begin a grapple and rake in the same round, rake attacks may only be used against grappled opponents. Done. So I am wrong.Wrong again. Read pounce. Creatures with Pounce can use rake during pounce.
So thats 5 attacks. At full BAB. An extra 10d6 with Rhino's Hide, and an extra 10d6 with an amulet of mighty fists (holy). And 5x mStr.
Lions are powerful.
Mind explaining how the lion manages too keep an amulet around its neck?
And logic would say that the Rhino Hide would only add the extra 2d6 on the first attack made after the charge, as it is adding the damage from impact of the charge (spirit of the rhino and whatnot). I see that it does say "deals an additional 2d6 points of damage on any successful charge attack made by the wearer", but that's likely written with the idea that it is being worn by a humanoid PC who only gets one attack on a charge in the first place.
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even with rhino hide adding to a single attack, 5 attacks from a large sized creature is incredibly powerful (maybe to powerful....may limit it to 3 attacks in my games...) but to add a charging paladin lance smite to the mix......you do way to much damage for your CR (i guess ill need to throw antipaladins on fiendish tigers to balance it ;P)
even with rhino hide adding to a single attack, 5 attacks from a large sized creature is incredibly powerful (maybe to powerful....may limit it to 3 attacks in my games...) but to add a charging paladin lance smite to the mix......you do way to much damage for your CR (i guess ill need to throw antipaladins on fiendish tigers to balance it ;P)
I personally factor realism into things... As far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't attempt to do 4x claw attacks on a charge if my paladin was actively using the lion as his mount... I'm sitting on its back wearing full plate mail, there's no way it can take weight off of its front paws.
However...I use the lion as a second combatant and ride a horse, so...
Ahhhh the Paladin's mount... so cool. I had a Dragonne once as a mount in a 3.5, Planescape game. Now I have the Mount of Sustare, that's a Horse made of Gold, a construct made by a great mage of old.... He is pretty powerful, at the same game there is another Pally that has a Golden Dragon as a mount, very, very cool stuff.
I like diferent mounts for pallies, I think the horse is just to... Blerg...
Ah. There it is. Under universal monster qualities, a monster cannot begin a grapple and rake in the same round, rake attacks may only be used against grappled opponents. Done. So I am wrong.Wrong again. Read pounce. Creatures with Pounce can use rake during pounce.
So thats 5 attacks. At full BAB. An extra 10d6 with Rhino's Hide, and an extra 10d6 with an amulet of mighty fists (holy). And 5x mStr.
Lions are powerful.
Mind explaining how the lion manages too keep an amulet around its neck?
And logic would say that the Rhino Hide would only add the extra 2d6 on the first attack made after the charge, as it is adding the damage from impact of the charge (spirit of the rhino and whatnot). I see that it does say "deals an additional 2d6 points of damage on any successful charge attack made by the wearer", but that's likely written with the idea that it is being worn by a humanoid PC who only gets one attack on a charge in the first place.
The amulet stays on with a chain, like it would being worn by a human. We used to put necklaces on our dog all the time. Works fine, if it fits. If not, well then get a longer chain.
I'm sure that's the RAI of the Rhino's Charge, but RAI I don't think Paladins should be able to have Lions.
You mentioned earlier that you ride a horse, not the lion, and that you use the lion as an animal companion to fight besides you. That's the basic assumption of my posts.
And I think the idea is that the tiger swipes twice with each paw, for a total of 4 claw attacks.
If you were Spirited Charging from your horse while Smiting, and your lion was attacking a target, that target is just going to die real fast. Unless you limit yourself, of course.
Ah. There it is. Under universal monster qualities, a monster cannot begin a grapple and rake in the same round, rake attacks may only be used against grappled opponents. Done. So I am wrong.Wrong again. Read pounce. Creatures with Pounce can use rake during pounce.
So thats 5 attacks. At full BAB. An extra 10d6 with Rhino's Hide, and an extra 10d6 with an amulet of mighty fists (holy). And 5x mStr.
Lions are powerful.
Mind explaining how the lion manages too keep an amulet around its neck?
And logic would say that the Rhino Hide would only add the extra 2d6 on the first attack made after the charge, as it is adding the damage from impact of the charge (spirit of the rhino and whatnot). I see that it does say "deals an additional 2d6 points of damage on any successful charge attack made by the wearer", but that's likely written with the idea that it is being worn by a humanoid PC who only gets one attack on a charge in the first place.
Disagree. APG gives PCs options to make full attacks at the end of a charge (particularly when mounted), and pounce has existed as a universal monster trait for a long time. Stoopid as it is, I see it as RAI.
Also, Druids can have lions. Bonded mount works off of Druid's animal companion feature, using Paladin level = Effective Druid level. So if it's fair for a 7th level druid to ride a mundane horse and have an animal companion lion with amulet of mighty fists and rhino hide, while also getting full spell progression and 3/4 BAB/HD, why is it unfair for a Paladin to get the same thing, except with waaaay worse spell progression, better proficiencies and BAB/HD?
Edit: Not to mention that druids can wildshape, such that they can have a decked out lion and BE a decked out DIRE TIGER. Make some allowances for other animal companion owners.
(axebeaks are more balanced and awesome!)
+1 Ya! :D
Where do we stop then?
Drakes, dragons?
Sable Company Rangers can get a hippogriff, but they have to trade a bonus feat to do it. Flight is cool and all but powerwise, your better off getting the wiz to cast fly on your lion
I know it seems simple, but the open ended wording allows for nearly.any pet but the power can be off the chart.
This impacts Pally and Cav more thanothers since the mounted knight is so iconic and they have class features built around it.
People whinge that cav's suck without their mount. Well who rides when that mount is a Pouncing lion or wolf tripper. I'd rather flank with it
I've wondered if a paladin can get a couatl as a bonded mount. That would be quite cool :) .
I know it's your games and all but surely the point of a bonded MOUNT is that it's ridden, if you are riding a horse and have a lion or any other creature and you aren't riding it then it counts as an animal companion and not a mount? I have a riding lizard which is pretty rock hard and enables me to carry out cool manouvres.
The draw for me is flight, mounted doesn't seem very limited when you can fly
Griffon, for example
Serves me right for not putting skill points into fly..... Still it doesn't exactly make sense for a deep gnome who has never seen the sky to have dreams of flying!
My very first paladin, who survived from AD&D, to 2E, and into 3.0/3.5 began with a heavy warhorse who was magically transformed into a heavy pegasus with a horn. Eventually I received an adamantine dragon as a new steed, but that was in Epic level play. Boy I was nasty against a lot of evil BBEGs!