Ok, so far I've only seen what's been posted on d20pfsrd for this Hex (don't worry, my preorder's already in), and it's certainly piqued my curiosity. Any discrepancies between what I know and the actual text in the PDF/book are therefore the result of d20pfsrd's work still being in-progress. That said, I have a few questions.
1) What action type (if any) is required to activate your hair? The ability description just says it's "instantly".
2) I think this is a no-brainer, but I just want to confirm. When the hair is 'active', I presume that it threatens the 10' area it can reach and can take attacks of opportunity?
3) Can the hair be used to deliver touch attacks?
4) Can the hair be used to make combat manuvers?
5) Can the hair be used with skill checks and if so, does the Witch's Intelligence modifier replace the appropriate attribute? Climb & Slight of Hand come to mind immediately, and perhaps Disable Device, Escape Artist and Swim too.
6) Is there any way to upgrade the hair's secondary attack status (via a feat or whatnot)? Or at least mitigate the -5 to attack and only 1/2 STR (well, INT) bonus to damage?
Anyone? Bueller?
1. Doesn't say so I would go with the default of standard.
2. No it attacks like a whip and whips don't threaten.
3. Yes they are a natural extension of you -- my understanding is that any limb can deliver a touch attack.
4. Yes.
5. Yes it can, and only the strength. It has all the ability to manipulate objects that a human hand does -- but you should treat it as what it is -- an extension of the witch, so it isn't going to take actions on its as an automaton of some sort.
6. If you have other natural attacks you could take multiattack (subject to GM permission). The easiest way would be taking the nails hex which gives you claws. Since you have three (or more) natural attacks you qualify for multi attack which reduces the penalties on secondary attacks (again subject to GM permission -- multiattack is a monster feat and therefore cannot be taken without consulting with the GM first normally).
there is another hex that gives the witch long fingernails. this plus the hair I think qualifies for multi attack. there is also a spell I forget what le el that you hair extends 30 feat or so I think.but it's more a concentrated tresses type thing than a natural attack.
I'm debating wether it's worth it for my bad touch oracle to take 1 witch level. whipping people at range causing bleed as you do negative energy is kind of neat but probably not worth it.
1. Doesn't say so I would go with the
For 1, I'd have to disagree with you here on what is the standard. For me, I'd go with what I precieve as the standard which is swift. (Most actions in this manner are swift for "activating" an ability like this. I'm mostly refering to the sorcerer bloodlines and many wizard powers that give a natural attack)
I'm seriously thinking about building a witch who takes martial weapon prof-folding razor, then takes the hexes for nails, hair and cauldren.
He uses his alchemy to make hair and skin products and puts ranks into prof-Barber.. :D
Unless otherwise noted, using a hex is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
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1. Doesn't say so I would go with theFor 1, I'd have to disagree with you here on what is the standard. For me, I'd go with what I precieve as the standard which is swift. (Most actions in this manner are swift for "activating" an ability like this. I'm mostly refering to the sorcerer bloodlines and many wizard powers that give a natural attack)
I'm seriously thinking about building a witch who takes martial weapon prof-folding razor, then takes the hexes for nails, hair and cauldren.
He uses his alchemy to make hair and skin products and puts ranks into prof-Barber.. :D
Swift is never the default.
Supernatural Abilities (Su)
Using a supernatural ability is usually a standard action (unless defined otherwise by the ability's description). Its use cannot be disrupted, does not require concentration, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Well fine, however it is defined as instantly.
Unlike other SLA or hexes, this is not "Target gets a booboo" or "you gain a bonus for x rounds"
This is "You have magic tentical hair."
In otherwords, regardless of its action type.. I activate it the moment I get the hex. Duration is not define.
And still, Swift is the standard of SPA and the like that grant natural attacks. I did not say it was the standard of ALL SPA or even hexes. Just the ones that grant natural attacks. Specificially because, well you should be able to use that natural attack in that turn, not the next turn because you took a standard to draw a weapon. Unless there is some bonuses beyond that, like you gain regeneration, increased stats etc like the ways of mutagen or some werewolf like abilities.
No swift is not the standard for Spell like abilities -- go look at the combat section, the magic section and the bestiary universal rules section -- everyone of those specifically state that spell like abilities default to standard action unless the ability involved specifically states otherwise.
AND the hex ability itself states that all hexes default to standard action unless specifically stated otherwise.
Prehensile hair lacks such a statement therefore is a standard action to use.
Finally it is not an undefined duration -- it is one minute per witch level that can be split up with a minimum duration of a minute per use.
I got the impression that Once you took the Hair and the Nails Hexes they were just treated like Natural attacks and Required no activation.
I got the impression that Once you took the Hair and the Nails Hexes they were just treated like Natural attacks and Required no activation.
Hair is specifically a limited duration ability. Nails are not.
Oh i eee woops, so much for Quoting Stuff ive only glanced at in a PDF
Well how about this...
Where does it say the hair attacks like a whip and therefor does not threaten?
Also.. Now that I'm really able to look at it.. I notice that it doesn't say spell like ability anywhere in the description of this hair hex. It says Su
Ah crap.. and flight.. Geeze. Feather fall at will, but since it is a hex it would have to be as a standard acti.. splat. Not that this has anything to do with the hair.. Just making an observation now that I'm not posting at work.
Growing hair is a SU ability that requires a stanfard action to proform. The grown hair can be used as a secondary natural attack. There is no text referring to a whip.
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Quick question....if the witch grapples with the hair from 10 feet away can the grappled attack the hair and thus the witch? I believe the hex say it can not be attacked as a separate item. A little confused since the witch still at range with the target....
Doesn't matter, whenever you successfully grapple a target they are automatically moved adjacent to you so any attacks they make will be against the witch not the hair.
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If the hair is your ONLY natural attack, then it is treated as a primary attack. No penalty to attack with it and 1.5 strength (replaced by int) damage.
Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type.The text for the ability says "Her hair has reach 10 feet, and she can
use it as a secondary natural attack", so it's a secondary attack, no attack penalty, .5 strength bonus.
And that still doesn't change the rules for natural attacks which states if it's your ONLY natural attack it's treated as primary (even if it's normally secondary) and gets full attack bonus and 1.5x str on damage.
There's nothing in the power that changes this default rule.
Ah crap.. and flight.. Geeze. Feather fall at will, but since it is a hex it would have to be as a standard acti.. splat. Not that this has anything to do with the hair.. Just making an observation now that I'm not posting at work.
Feather fall is a Swift action. It's not a standard, because feather fall is under "if not otherwise specified" case.
If the hair is your ONLY natural attack, then it is treated as a primary attack. No penalty to attack with it and 1.5 strength (replaced by int) damage.
Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type.The text for the ability says "Her hair has reach 10 feet, and she can
use it as a secondary natural attack", so it's a secondary attack, no attack penalty, .5 strength bonus.And that still doesn't change the rules for natural attacks which states if it's your ONLY natural attack it's treated as primary (even if it's normally secondary) and gets full attack bonus and 1.5x str on damage.
There's nothing in the power that changes this default rule.
If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one.
The Witch has the option to make multiple attacks (unarmed strike/weapon attacks) so the hair is still a secondary attack. I was hoping to find a way around the -5 and .5 str but it makes sense, you are taking your best stat and turning it into a combat ability stat. That would just be op imho. :) that said, i would still want it to work the other way but balance. Just think about how damaging it would get when you are pumping up your int, adding touch spells, with reach and a higher attack stat than the fighter. It's still pretty great as is, with reach and flanking and some touch spells in there, you can help out the tank and still be de-buffing the enemy, casting cure spells on your allies without having to get up close, and manipulate objects. And as far as activating the hair, I would think that if they said it was instant then it wouldn't take an action. Instantly, in regard to other spells and items, is usually as part of some other action. (you use the command word and X happens instantly, you cast the spell and X happens instantly) I would think that the instant hair growth means you can grow it out and attack with it and still move. It should at the very most be a swift action, but I would rule it a free action.
Wait -- people take the Prehensile Hair hex for reasons OTHER than reloading pepperboxes so they can TWF with them?
(The rest of their levels being Gunslinger, natch)
If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one.The Witch has the option to make multiple attacks (unarmed strike/weapon attacks) so the hair is still a secondary attack. I was hoping to find a way around the -5 and .5 str but it makes sense, you are taking your best stat and turning it into a combat ability stat. That would just be op imho. :) that said, i would still want it to work the other way but balance. Just think about how damaging it would get when you are pumping up your int, adding touch spells, with reach and a higher attack stat than the fighter. It's still pretty great as is, with reach and flanking and some touch spells in there, you can help out the tank and still be de-buffing the enemy, casting cure spells on your allies without having to get up close, and manipulate objects. And as far as activating the hair, I would think that if they said it was instant then it wouldn't take an action. Instantly, in regard to other spells and items, is usually as part of some other action. (you use the command word and X happens instantly, you cast the spell and X happens instantly) I would think that the instant hair growth means you can grow it out and attack with it and still move. It should at the very most be a swift action, but I would rule it a free action.
Bit of a thread necro don't you think?
Unarmed attacks aren't considered natural weapons. Assuming the witch doesn't have any other natural weapons other than prehensile hair, if the witch doesn't use unarmed attacks or other weapons along with the prehensile hair, it's a primary weapon since it's the sole natural weapon.
Technically anything can use unarmed strikes. If something only has 1 primary slam attack, it could still do unarmed/slam as secondary. With your logic, nothing ever has a primary attack with 1.5xStr.
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Am I the only one here that thinks magical hair that is stronger than the witch and can attack and stuff is stupid?
Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying here....if you like it and enjoy it and want to play it, you are not having badwrongfun because I don't.....
but I just don't get it.
Am I a fuddy duddy?
Is this an "anime" thing that I don't understand?
Am I the only one here that thinks magical hair that is stronger than the witch and can attack and stuff is stupid?
Not more stupid than any spell/force/summon/etc which is stronger than caster, this case just use the hair as medium.
I like the idea of hair attacks. Had a build based around it. We always treated the hair as primary since it was the only natural attack. However now i'm wondering if using class abilities to attack multiple times with one natural attack should have bumped it back down to a secondary attack.
Equal to means you use that as the strength score for the hair; you don't use your own strength score. Your own strength score doesn't matter for attack and damage rolls made with the hair; you can even use it to help force doors open or other situations you would typically use Strength checks for.
Also, while this is a comparatively fresh corpse compared to some of the ones I've been seeing walking around lately, just because it's a witch topic doesn't make thread necromancy all that okay.