Dude if this is the PC I think it is, the one you posted some fights for. Then yes he took it very,very easy on you guys. Under any other Gm in that thread, that fight would have been the last for that group.I made it all the way to level 10 on 36 hit points, 2 Str, 6 Dex, and 10 Con. My GM did NOT go easy on us. I roleplayed that crap out of that character and used plenty of survival tactics.
You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about your own GMing abilities.
Why is it so impossible to believe that my character survived due to MY own merits rather than an alleged GM's leniency?
Dude if this is the PC I think it is, the one you posted some fights for. Then yes he took it very,very easy on you guys. Under any other Gm in that thread, that fight would have been the last for that group.I made it all the way to level 10 on 36 hit points, 2 Str, 6 Dex, and 10 Con. My GM did NOT go easy on us. I roleplayed that crap out of that character and used plenty of survival tactics.
You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about your own GMing abilities.
Why is it so impossible to believe that my character survived due to MY own merits rather than an alleged GM's leniency?
Not that I read those posts Seeker is referring to, but when I see a STR 2 character, I would say "because your GM never used a Shadow on you". :p
And yes, 36 hit points... I'm sorry. No one survives in one of my games for 10 levels with that few hit points. Unless you never participate in fights (which I suppose is a possibility). With all due respect for your DM, of course.
36 hit points for 10th level is low for you (and others)?
So are you saying that casters in 3.X (or earlier editions) should never make it to 10th level? Because 36 HP is pretty normal for a caster at that level.
And my DM does max-2 for HP’s now, which I think is pretty fair. With that system, a 10th level Wizard/Sorcerer with a 10 Con is only going to have 42 HP’s in PF.
And yes, 36 hit points... I'm sorry. No one survives in one of my games for 10 levels with that few hit points. Unless you never participate in fights (which I suppose is a possibility). With all due respect for your DM, of course.36 hit points for 10th level is low for you (and others)?
So are you saying that casters in 3.X (or earlier editions) should never make it to 10th level? Because 36 HP is pretty normal for a caster at that level.
And my DM does max-2 for HP’s now, which I think is pretty fair. With that system, a 10th level Wizard/Sorcerer with a 10 Con is only going to have 42 HP’s in PF.
No caster worth his salt shouldn't have had at least a +2 CON item in 3.5 at level 10. At least if you were playing in the normal parameters of the game, i.e. with normal assumed WBL.
And yes, 36 hit points... I'm sorry. No one survives in one of my games for 10 levels with that few hit points. Unless you never participate in fights (which I suppose is a possibility). With all due respect for your DM, of course.36 hit points for 10th level is low for you (and others)?
So are you saying that casters in 3.X (or earlier editions) should never make it to 10th level? Because 36 HP is pretty normal for a caster at that level.
And my DM does max-2 for HP’s now, which I think is pretty fair. With that system, a 10th level Wizard/Sorcerer with a 10 Con is only going to have 42 HP’s in PF.
No it's not normal. Not in any of my campaigns (or several others). Any wizard/sorcerer at that level is likely to have at least 14 con (with or without a Con-boosting belt). Then there is Toughness and favored class bonuses. I'm not saying that 36 hp is unplayable, but it sure is low.
Unless you never participate in fights (which I suppose is a possibility). With all due respect for your DM, of course.
Actually, that was a big part of it. My venerable sorcerer would almost always be a great distance from the rest of the party, covered in layer after layer of spell protections, and using Eschew Materials/Silent Spell/Still Spell to cast spells while appearing like a non-combatant. I always relied on spells without obvious visible effects.
The only time she would ever even face attack was when the party was fighting a creature too stupid to care whether someone was a non-combatant or not (such as a hungry bear), or enemies who attacked everyone indiscriminately (like this one border patrol that had orders to fill ALL trespassers with arrows on sight).
But most of the time, we fought intelligent humanoid enemies with class levels. As far as many of them knew, I was just a wagon driver off in the distance watching a battle taking place.
If things were more up close and personal (or when my affiliation with the party was obvious, such as when face to face negotiations went bad--I was the party face) a simple dimension door for distance and greater invisibility to hide was all it took to stay safe most of the time.
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But most of the time, we fought intelligent humanoid enemies with class levels.
Honestly, they don't sound that intelligent! :D
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''Right lads, get 'em!''
''ARGH OW ARGH! REGROUP! RETREAT ARGH!
....
....
(...back at bad dude camp...)
''Right, lads, come on, what's going on here? This is the third failed attempt to claim their scalps today!''
''No idea boss. Maybe they're like, awesome?''
''Hmm. Ok, let's appraise the situation - what are the constants?''
''Pain! Suffering! Limb loss!''
''Hmm anything else?''
''Er... pain, suffering, limb loss, ....that wagon that keeps hanging about in the distance.... ..more pain, more limb loss, Barry's flatulence...
''Woah woah woah, hang on! Run that by me again!''
''..pain, suffering, limb loss, ....that wagon that keeps hanging about in the distance.... ..more pain, more limb loss..
Stop! Back up a little!
''Um.. more pain?''
''Hmmm, a little more.''
''Er.. suffering?''
''No, wait, forward just a tad..''
''...wagon that keeps hanging about in the distance?''
''Yes! That's it! What wagon?''
''Just some wagon boss.''
''Anything worth taking?''
''Hmmm... maybe.''
''Any gaurds?''
''Just some old driver.''
''Result! Ok lads, lets nab the wagon, kill the driver and regroup and Wendy's!''
''What about the rest of em?''
''Ha! We'll sell the wagon, get some beers and make a real plan of attack over the weekend.''
''Ok boss!''
...
YEAH!
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Man. Have GMs been burned so many times by their player that they've grown so cynical and untrusting? Or is it just those of us on the forums, because we are exposed to all the negatives that happen in other groups?
Also, I would like to apologize for my earlier posts. They were out of line.
I guess, as some GMs no longer trust their players, I've developed an attitude of thinking the worst of GMs.
If you witnessed some stuff my players pulled on me during my ten years of gming, you would be cynical too. And they didn't just do it for giggles. Thus, i am always the first one to get my paws on a new rulebook and to read it and to know which spells/feats/stuf to ban. I had to ban falcatas for example because everybody started using them.
Well, unless you have GMed for an extensive period of time, you don't know how difficult, yet rewarding gming can be...
You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about your own GMing abilities.
Why is it so impossible to believe that my character survived due to MY own merits rather than an alleged GM's leniency?
It wasn't just me. If I recall you had folks who rarely see eye to eye calling you on it. The few "fights" you outlined would have had your pc dead at lest if the NPC's had more intelligence then a swarm of rats.
With your stats, he was indeed being easy on you if you played from level 1. Hell any weak poison would just about kill you, even with a save.
Hell an int 6 goblin will fig out if they keep getting hit with magic and the only one that never seems to do anything is the old lady..lets kill her to be sure. Heck, she was standing alone in the back...kill her to be sure..she looks old..might be a wizard..lets kill her...just in case ya know.
Sorry dude, but you have had 2 or 3 in this thread alone saying someone like that would never make it in their games unless they held their hands and went easy on em.
That is simply just the way it is. I don't think you could have made it though and AP without the GM going easy. Its not play style, your pc was just to weak for the rigors of adventuring.
Ah this wasn't hard to find
Hama level 1 sorcerer
S 2
D 6
C 10
I 12
W 12
Ch 23
So who here would give odds on such a pc making it though 2 or 3 parts of just about any AP without the GM pulling punches?
You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about your own GMing abilities.
Why is it so impossible to believe that my character survived due to MY own merits rather than an alleged GM's leniency?
It wasn't just me. If I recall you had folks who rarely see eye to eye calling you on it. The few "fights" you outlined would have had your pc dead at lest if the NPC's had more intelligence then a swarm of rats.
With your stats, he was indeed being easy on you if you played from level 1. Hell any weak poison would just about kill you, even with a save.
Hell an int 6 goblin will fig out if they keep getting hit with magic and the only one that never seems to do anything is the old lady..lets kill her to be sure. Heck, she was standing alone in the back...kill her to be sure..she looks old..might be a wizard..lets kill her...just in case ya know.
I guess your parties have never hired NPC henchment to carry their stuff or cook their food. Carravans and the like are COMMON sights in the campaign. Generally if they get attacked, the bad guys go after the obvious guards, letting the non-combatants hide or flee (which my sorcerer was VERY good at pretending to do).
Sorry dude, but you have had 2 or 3 in this thread alone saying someone like that would never make it in their games unless they held their hands and went easy on em.
That is simply just the way it is. I don't think you could have made it though and AP without the GM going easy. Its not play style, your pc was just to weak for the rigors of adventuring.
Meh. 2 or 3 knee jerk reactions is all ya' got.
Sure things get harder with such characters, but that doesn't mean that the GM is going easy on ya'. If a spellcaster is standing in the back and is getting attacked more than once per session, than HE IS A CRAPPY SPELLCASTER. Positioning, buffs, cover and the like, make it incredibly difficult to land a blow against a prepared spellcaster. This is COMMON KNOWLEDGE on these boards. I merely used these basic tactics to stay out of the way. The only time I was in serious troubel was during ambushes, or against enemies that had survived previous encounters (and might have learned things in much the way you describe), or if they knew my sorcerer was a spellcaster from the start.
Ah this wasn't hard to find
Hama level 1 sorcerer
S 2
D 6
C 10
I 12
W 12
Ch 23So who here would give odds on such a pc making it though 2 or 3 parts of just about any AP without the GM pulling punches?
That depends entirely on the player. Strength and Dexterity are not all that necessary for a sorcerer (they get dumped by other people all the time) and the Constitution is average. The only thing this kind of character needs to look out for are shadows and grapplers (both of which often screw normal characters anyways).
Also, every old woman in rags =/= a witch or a sorceress. Such characters are a real rarity in most campaigns compared to the millions of old woman commoners out there. Someone who suspects "spellcaster" at a glance has either been tipped off somehow or is EXTREMELY paranoid.
Nah your right, no one would ever bother the old woman in rags walking around with a group of adventurers and who is not treated like the hired help. In a fantasy setting anyone wroth their salt targets anyone who might..just might be a caster first.
Its not just you, your whole group would have died a few times by some of those encounters if ran like something other then a vid game with agrro.
And buffs would not have helped much at level one with an AC of 8 and a touch ac to match. Not even talking about your saves of +0,-2,+3. or your six hp's( 4 in 3.5)
what buffs could you possibly have at level one that would make up for that? Sure you had spells, but you where dead at the first failed reflex save or poison save. A drunken hobo or small child could have killed you with a rock on a roll of 8 .You where over optimized to the point of uselessness
Honestly man if anyone at all knew you where a caster..you should have been dead. The buffs just would not have made up for the negatives. Not enough to matter for level appropriate encounters anyhow.
That method does require one to live long enough to get or make the ring and be able to cast the fly spell.
7th level spells should be powerful. Other than duration, Greater Heroism (6th level) is more powerful than this (better saves, 1/2 the HP, better attack rolls, and immunity to fear). Except, you might memorize 2 Gr. Heroisms in a day, you'd never memorize 2 of this spell, so a dispel magic would more easily neutralize it.
Nah your right, no one would ever bother the old woman in rags walking around with a group of adventurers and who is not treated like the hired help. In a fantasy setting anyone wroth their salt targets anyone who might..just might be a caster first.
That's metagame thinking though. Just cause YOU suspect she's a spellcaster doesn't necessarily mean that your PC/NPC would.
Its not just you, your whole group would have died a few times by some of those encounters if ran like something other then a vid game with agrro.
Your characters think every old lady might be a spellcaster out to get them and you are accusing US of using a gamist perspective? Whatever.
And buffs would not have helped much at level one with an AC of 8 and a touch ac to match. Not even talking about your saves of +0,-2,+3. or your six hp's( 4 in 3.5)
At low levels most things can kill you regardless of what you play. One crit from an orce with a greataxe and the barbarian's down, if not outright dead.
With low level spellcasters it's not so much about the buffs as it is about being out of the way.
what buffs could you possibly have at level one that would make up for that? Sure you had spells, but you where dead at the first failed reflex save or poison save. A drunken hobo or small child could have killed you with a rock on a roll of 8 .You where over optimized to the point of uselessness
You are really stretching it. You talk as though my 1st-level character should have gone up against 10d6 fireballs or dragon's bile. Hobos and small children were never a threat to my character at ANY level. In fact, they LOVED her. She was the charismatic grandmotherly figure and they had no reason to take a rock or a stick to her (also, what rock or stick does d8 damage?). Even if they tried, she would charm them with her spells. Threat neutralized.
Honestly man if anyone at all knew you where a caster..you should have been dead. The buffs just would not have made up for the negatives. Not enough to matter for level appropriate encounters anyhow.
My character had AVERAGE hit points! The game is DESIGNED so someone with 10 Constitution can still survive. The only time she was ever in serious danger was when the GM through tough encounters at us (like your 10d6 fireball) or when one of the scenarios in my above posts occurred.
There were some near misses (I remember being 1 point away from death once), but by and large I got out of it all either because of my outstanding tactics, or from the help of my party.
The only way I see a character like that survive is if he's a conjurer with a ring of invisibility, uses fly all the time, and just summons monsters, while staying as far away as possible from the actual fight... Because the first time he gets hit by an area of effect spell, it's over.
My sorceress actually DID stay out of the way a lot while casting summon spells.
What's the problem people? Not every GM play oozes as if, or at least tries to,they were Tsun Tsu with a scrying ball.
Under Hama's conditions most NPCs had little to no reasons to priorize resources/actions into attacking her other than easiest prey/food (thats how most animal pick their target from a group) or the GM flat metagaming. Ravingdork already stated that Hama was in serious danger in the firstcase almost doesn't count it.
Humbly,
Yawar
No I am not streaching. You gave a few examples where your group was attacked by bandits , some with magical back up and some repeat attackers sponsored by the same folks if I recall.
"Old lady with a band of powerful thugs, in rags treated as an equal or asked advice from in or before combat. Oh and she had an IMP" that screams caster or someone powerful. You do not take chances.
Those bandits acted like C rate cartoon thugs. Not a threat to anyone.
And yes you had av hp, but saves well subpare and so was your AC, even with buffs you where behind avarge a good deal. at 8th level a low great poison would have killed you, even if you passed the save. That is just bad.
Your HP's where fine but AC 12 with mage armor and death from 2 str drain poison is asking to die. Hell at level 10 that str 2 poison would kill you. How is that not super weak?
Any enemy worth his salt would have killed you with ambushes and poison if ya bugged him to much. Powerful caster, yes { well losts of spells anyhow). But a weak fail old lady is a weak fail easily killed old lady.
You disbelieve it but your Gm was very kind.
Anyhow I will stop, sorry to derail. Carry on.
Ah this wasn't hard to find
Hama level 1 sorcerer
S 2
D 6
C 10
I 12
W 12
Ch 23So who here would give odds on such a pc making it though 2 or 3 parts of just about any AP without the GM pulling punches?
I'd like to point out that my DM is a throat ripper (we have made so many characters and lost them at level 2) and we have gone entire adventures keeping one of our party from ever being hit. Those stats are survivable unless your a kill all signs of imbalance kind of DM
This will be my last post on the matter as I too, wish to get the thread back on topic.
No I am not streaching. You gave a few examples where your group was attacked by bandits , some with magical back up and some repeat attackers sponsored by the same folks if I recall.
Hama fared very badly in those encounters where the enemy knew what she was. Nevertheless, she was never killed.
"Old lady with a band of powerful thugs, in rags treated as an equal or asked advice from in or before combat. Oh and she had an IMP" that screams caster or someone powerful. You do not take chances.
Imps can change form or become invisible at will. Hama's "cat" was hardly imposing.
Those bandits acted like C rate cartoon thugs. Not a threat to anyone.
They were played realistically, rather than metagamed. You are so gamist in your thinking you just can't accept that it's a playstyle difference and feel you must accuse our GM of "being soft." She's a GREAT GM and I'll never tolerate such lies about her abilities.
And yes you had av hp, but saves well subpare and so was your AC, even with buffs you where behind avarge a good deal. at 8th level a low great poison would have killed you, even if you passed the save. That is just bad.
It's true I never encountered a shadow or got poisoned during that time. Thst doesn't mean my GM was soft. It just means we never encountered a shadow and any creatures that had poison never got close enough to Hama to use it on her.
Your HP's where fine but AC 12 with mage armor and death from 2 str drain poison is asking to die. Hell at level 10 that str 2 poison would kill you. How is that not super weak?
Strength damage doesn't kill you unless it's from a shadow. A poison would have just left her unconscious. Also, AC becomes moot if you aren't in a position that enemies can attack you. Things like mirror image and displacement go a long ways towards protecting you when you are facing enemies who know you are a spellcaster.
Any enemy worth his salt would have killed you with ambushes and poison if ya bugged him to much. Powerful caster, yes { well losts of spells anyhow). But a weak fail old lady is a weak fail easily killed old lady.
You are probably right about this. Luckily, we either killed everyone, tricked everyone, or made allies out of them. There was only really one group that knew who she was and would realistically track down and kill Hama, but I dropped out of the campaign before that happened.
You disbelieve it but your Gm was very kind.
She was. That's not the same thing as "being soft."
I'd like to point out that my DM is a throat ripper (we have made so many characters and lost them at level 2) and we have gone entire adventures keeping one of our party from ever being hit. Those stats are survivable unless your a kill all signs of imbalance kind of DM
I agree. I know this from experience, and like you, I was able to go several games at a time without taking damage or otherwise being (successfully) attacked. In those games where I was, I went down really quick, and it was a hair raiser every time.
I know the GM didn't go soft. She rolled in front of us. If the enemy or monster wasn't a reoccurring one, she would often share it's stats afterwards. There is no chance she was pulling punches.
My character had AVERAGE hit points! The game is DESIGNED so someone with 10 Constitution can still survive.
This was the point I was making in my above post. Everyone is saying someone with 36 hp's at 10th level should be dead or the DM is being too easy. I disagree.
36 HP's IS average for a 10th level caster class with a d6 for HP at a 10 Con. Sure, the extra HP from a higher Con is nice, but it isn't a requirement. If that is the case, then every d6 HP class should start with a +2 or +4 Con by RAW.
If mid 30 HP's are too low for your campaign, that's your right and if it is more fun for you and your players, that's great. But don't try to say that is 'normal.' I would hate to have run under those GM's when casters only received a d4.
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My character had AVERAGE hit points! The game is DESIGNED so someone with 10 Constitution can still survive.
This was the point I was making in my above post. Everyone is saying someone with 36 hp's at 10th level should be dead or the DM is being too easy. I disagree.
36 HP's IS average for a 10th level caster class with a d6 for HP at a 10 Con. Sure, the extra HP from a higher Con is nice, but it isn't a requirement. If that is the case, then every d6 HP class should start with a +2 or +4 Con by RAW.
If mid 30 HP's are too low for your campaign, that's your right and if it is more fun for you and your players, that's great. But don't try to say that is 'normal.' I would hate to have run under those GM's when casters only received a d4.
Let's see some "stock" statblocks:
Rival Guide, Wizard 10 - 62 HP
Pregen Ezren - 47 HP
Pregen Seoni - 50 HP (at level 9)
36 HP at level 10 is low. You're on the verge of dying from a single CL 10 Fireball, something that should not be happening.
My character had AVERAGE hit points! The game is DESIGNED so someone with 10 Constitution can still survive.
This was the point I was making in my above post. Everyone is saying someone with 36 hp's at 10th level should be dead or the DM is being too easy. I disagree.
36 HP's IS average for a 10th level caster class with a d6 for HP at a 10 Con. Sure, the extra HP from a higher Con is nice, but it isn't a requirement. If that is the case, then every d6 HP class should start with a +2 or +4 Con by RAW.
If mid 30 HP's are too low for your campaign, that's your right and if it is more fun for you and your players, that's great. But don't try to say that is 'normal.' I would hate to have run under those GM's when casters only received a d4.
Let's see some "stock" statblocks:
Rival Guide, Wizard 10 - 62 HP
Pregen Ezren - 47 HP
Pregen Seoni - 50 HP (at level 9)36 HP at level 10 is low. You're on the verge of dying from a single CL 10 Fireball, something that should not be happening.
I ask myself, too, how that "stay back sitting in the horse cart" worked out in dungeons. ^^
Let's see some "stock" statblocks:Rival Guide, Wizard 10 - 62 HP
Pregen Ezren - 47 HP
Pregen Seoni - 50 HP (at level 9)36 HP at level 10 is low. You're on the verge of dying from a single CL 10 Fireball, something that should not be happening.
Ok, for all those pregens, they either have max HP’s, or close to it. Or they have Con bonuses to some sort. If Paizo feels the standard for Wizards/Sorcerers should have that high of HP’s, then maybe they should have bumped it higher than a d6. Or, as I said, all d6 classes get an automatic +2 or +4 to their Con. But then I feel that throws off the balance of the classes, they 'should' be easier to kill because they have their strengths in other areas.
A standard should not be established for something where you are required to raise an ability score over average. In a class where it is a primary stat, certainly. If you told me a Barbarian, Fighter, Ranger and even Cleric was running around with a 10 Con, I would say you just are just hurting yourself. But I do not consider Con a primary for a Wizard or Sorcerer.
Edit: I just want to clarify, I do see all of your points in that 36 HP’s, period, is dangerous to have for 10th level character. So yes, it is a good idea to do your best to counteract that with magic items or even raising your Con over 10.
However, I am just saying the standard should not be set for all d6 classes to be ‘required’ to have a 12 or 14 Con to survive. Part of being a Wizard or Sorcerer is to not be in a situation where they are going to take a lot of damage. Whether that be far away from combat or using spells to prevent others from seeing them or affecting them with spells or ranged attacks.
Sure, I agree, if you play a Wizard or Sorcerer unwisely and put yourself in a situation where you ‘will’ take a lot or even decent damage, you only have yourself to blame.
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Any sane wizard who wants to be an adventurer will most certainly exercise their body to be more durable in combat. Any normal player will put their second or third best roll on con if he plays a wizard or a sorcerer. 10 con is average, but average hit points for level 10 for a wizard are 35 if he doesn't take toughness, 45 if he does and 55 if he takes the favored class bonus. A 35 hp wizard will not last very long in combat, even with all the plethora of protective spells he can cast on himself, Unless, he gets a +something to con item, which is a must and have cleric cast extended bears endurance on him a lot. Or at least invest in a wand of the said spell.
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No caster worth his salt shouldn't have had at least a +2 CON item in 3.5 at level 10. At least if you were playing in the normal parameters of the game, i.e. with normal assumed WBL.
Isn't this min/maxing? You HAVE TO HAVE a certain set of scores to be "worth your salt"?
How is what you say different from starting with Venerable score adjustments (whether at 1st or 13th)
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Any sane wizard who wants to be an adventurer will most certainly exercise their body to be more durable in combat.
Any sane person will not want to be an adventurer at all. Plus not all adventurers start wanting to be one, many get thrust into the role.
I was creating a theory PC for future games...and this was days ago before I even heard of the spell. He was gonna be venerable...but i would buy his physical stats to 13 so they will end up as 7s...much more manageable...and the loss of HP due to con is partially offset by the favored class bonus.
No caster worth his salt shouldn't have had at least a +2 CON item in 3.5 at level 10. At least if you were playing in the normal parameters of the game, i.e. with normal assumed WBL.Isn't this min/maxing? You HAVE TO HAVE a certain set of scores to be "worth your salt"?
How is what you say different from starting with Venerable score adjustments (whether at 1st or 13th)
No, that is just playing in the parameters of what the game itself expects from you when it throws level appropiate challenges at your party. Just looking at the CR 10 monsters of the bestiary, five of eleven of them can drop an AE spell on the party which could take out a character with only 36 HP.
Having STR 2 and CHA 23 as starting attributes is really easily recognizable as twinking out your character.
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Let's see some "stock" statblocks:Rival Guide, Wizard 10 - 62 HP
Pregen Ezren - 47 HP
Pregen Seoni - 50 HP (at level 9)36 HP at level 10 is low. You're on the verge of dying from a single CL 10 Fireball, something that should not be happening.
Seoni in CoT part 6 is level 11 with con 12 and 59 HPs...in part 1 she has 8 @ level 1. They writers add in the fave class bonus...
So @ 11: 11 from con, 6 from starting HP, 35 from 10 levels. 52 w/o fave class bonuses.
My point. I dunno just speaking out loud.
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Let's see some "stock" statblocks:Rival Guide, Wizard 10 - 62 HP
Pregen Ezren - 47 HP
Pregen Seoni - 50 HP (at level 9)36 HP at level 10 is low. You're on the verge of dying from a single CL 10 Fireball, something that should not be happening.
Seoni in CoT part 6 is level 11 with con 12 and 59 HPs...in part 1 she has 8 @ level 1. They writers add in the fave class bonus...
So @ 11: 11 from con, 6 from starting HP, 35 from 10 levels. 52 w/o fave class bonuses.
My point. I dunno just speaking out loud.
I actually used COT Seoni, in part 5 she has 50 HP.
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Well, good luck with that wizard...without some heavy support from other players, that wizard would die fast in one of my games. Since i throw level appropriate encounters or tougher at my players. I assume you begin playing at 1st level...that gives you 5 hit points...a goblin can kill you in two weak blows, not to mention guards or orcs.
Well, good luck with that wizard...without some heavy support from other players, that wizard would die fast in one of my games. Since i throw level appropriate encounters or tougher at my players. I assume you begin playing at 1st level...that gives you 5 hit points...a goblin can kill you in two weak blows, not to mention guards or orcs.
Welcome to the drawback of playing a class with a low hit die (d6). As a note, you’d have at least 6 hp’s at 1st level, as you get max. But I can tell you, whether you have 6 hp’s with a 10 Con or 8 hp’s with a 14 Con, you will die quickly if you put yourself in position of being attacked.
You need to baby a d6 character at low level. Hit from a distance, use cover. If you put yourself in a position where they can charge up next to you or have an open shot (no bonuses to your AC) for their ranged attacks, then you deserve your fate.
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I was talking about OilHorse's character which has 7 con. That would give him 5 hit points IF he takes bonus hp as a favored class bonus.
You need to baby a d6 character at low level. Hit from a distance, use cover. If you put yourself in a position where they can charge up next to you or have an open shot (no bonuses to your AC) for their ranged attacks, then you deserve your fate.
What if you're in a dungeon? Not too much maneuvering space...
I was talking about OilHorse's character which has 7 con. That would give him 5 hit points IF he takes bonus hp as a favored class bonus.
Ah, ok. Well, if you take a character with a 7 Con, then you are just hurting yourself, and yes, will most likely (deserve to) die.
What if you're in a dungeon? Not too much maneuvering space...
You need yourself a party that works together. The group I play with, we make our mistakes sometimes, but do a good job working together (most of the time). Also, “Protect the caster” is a motto our group has taken.
If you are in cramped quarters without maneuverability and the higher HP classes aren’t doing a good job blocking/keeping the enemies engaged, then yes, you are going to go down. But that will happen with either 6 or 8 HP’s.
It is not just HP's if it was that would not be so bad, but those HP with a -2 reflex save, stats below 4 and an AC of 8 is a death sentence.
You simply can not buff enough to make up for the hole you start in.
Also his group was an evil group with the end goal of pvp, one man left standing style. Which ironically he left because the other pc's decided to kill him first when he started making plans for lichdom.
It is not just HP's if it was that would not be so bad, but those HP with a -2 reflex save, stats below 4 and an AC of 8 is a death sentence.
You simply can not buff enough to make up for the hole you start in.
Also his group was an evil group with the end goal of pvp, one man left standing style. Which ironically he left because the other pc's decided to kill him first when he started making plans for lichdom.
Oh, I agree. If you are going to take a hit on all three physical attributes (and by that much) it is just not going to end well.
May be just kind of fun to take it up as a challenge and attempt it, but the likelihood of surviving is pretty nil.
Yeah my argument was not just HP, but taken with the other draw backs, you need HP's. Buffs can't fix the negatives and your saves are trash. +0,-2,+4 are not great, you will be hit often and you will fail saves often. With one of your physical stats at 2 you will go nappy nap often as well.
It is not just one thing.
I'd be rather interested how many times the Sorcerer was below 0 HP in that campaign.