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Pathfinder is an excellent game, and I'd be happy to play it.
However; I'm starting to get more and more dissatisfied about the level of prep work that goes into running the game. It's considerably higher than in the other games I've been running or playing lately, and I'm starting to dread more and more the prospect of running the system. I'll be wrapping up my current campaign in the next 3 weeks or so, and I am thinking about avoiding GMing pathfinder for a good long while afterward.
The problem is the amount of time needed to make a competent NPC stat block of level X for combat if the PCs go to attack them. Complicate it further if you want a monster as a race instead of a human. It simply takes too long. Up until the pathfinder core rules got released, it had been about 5 years since I had done any 3.x based Roleplaying. It occurs to me that it was about the same amount of work back then, but back then I was in highschool, and I simply had more time to work with. I could build that encounter with 15 level 8 drow and some driders; even though it would take me like 40 minutes for each type of drow I was using. I don't have time for that now.
On top of this, Pathfinder has a rather small collection of pre-built NPCs (at least in one place).
I find myself constantly wishing that Pathfinder either had a better collection of NPCs and Variations of the same Monster at different CRs, or that they had a character builder that rivaled the D&D4e Character Builder so that I could painlessly hammer out a level 10 NPC in about 10 minutes.
Admittedly this is less of a problem if you're using an Adventure Path with pre-built NPCs; but I'm currently running a sandbox campaign, and I have a group of highly unorthodox PCs, who tend to go very very far from what the modules tend to expect.
Am I the only one having this problem Re: making NPCs and Time requirements?
I'd suggest downloading PCGen, or buying one of the commercial character generator tools.
PC Gen is free, but lags a bit behind in getting the newer books out. However, for a GM, that's less of a problem. You can make an NPC and print it out in 5-10 minutes. You can also save it once done, and reuse it later as a different NPC. You can even create the same NPC at each level and save inbetween to different file names, so you have the NPC stated up at various levels.
It can save you a lot of time using the computer to do the grunt work. And even if the program misses something, it still saves you time and keeps you from having to spend so much time doing it by hand.
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Pathfinder is an excellent game, and I'd be happy to play it.
However; I'm starting to get more and more dissatisfied about the level of prep work that goes into running the game. It's considerably higher than in the other games I've been running or playing lately, and I'm starting to dread more and more the prospect of running the system. I'll be wrapping up my current campaign in the next 3 weeks or so, and I am thinking about avoiding GMing pathfinder for a good long while afterward.
The problem is the amount of time needed to make a competent NPC stat block of level X for combat if the PCs go to attack them. Complicate it further if you want a monster as a race instead of a human. It simply takes too long. Up until the pathfinder core rules got released, it had been about 5 years since I had done any 3.x based Roleplaying. It occurs to me that it was about the same amount of work back then, but back then I was in highschool, and I simply had more time to work with. I could build that encounter with 15 level 8 drow and some driders; even though it would take me like 40 minutes for each type of drow I was using. I don't have time for that now.
On top of this, Pathfinder has a rather small collection of pre-built NPCs (at least in one place).
I find myself constantly wishing that Pathfinder either had a better collection of NPCs and Variations of the same Monster at different CRs, or that they had a character builder that rivaled the D&D4e Character Builder so that I could painlessly hammer out a level 10 NPC in about 10 minutes.
Admittedly this is less of a problem if you're using an Adventure Path with pre-built NPCs; but I'm currently running a sandbox campaign, and I have a group of highly unorthodox PCs, who tend to go very very far from what the modules tend to expect.
Am I the only one having this problem Re: making NPCs and Time requirements?
They do have the NPC guide.
And if you have the means, herolab is your friend.
http://www.wolflair.com/index.php?context=hero_lab&page=pathfinder_role playing_game
After your campaign try out an adveture path or perhaps a society mod. Dm'ing a custom game take allot of work at times, breaks are sometimes needed.
Creative Director
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One of the best places to get pre-built NPCs for Pathfinder is actually the Adventure Path; a single AP will give you a pretty huge range of characters from CR 1 to CR 16 and above—just because those stat blocks are, for example, in the Mwangi Expanse or Ustalav or Varisia doesn't mean they have to stay there. Often when I'm running my sandbox-style Sandpoint game, I'll bring along a Pathifnder volume for an appropriate level party and just keep it on hand for "emergency stats" as the need arises.
We've also got "Rival Guide" coming out pretty soon; this book has 40 NPC stat blocs ranging from CR 2 up to CR 19—LOTS of various NPCs to use in there, either alone or as full parties.
Give all your players 500XP to draw up two NPCs each. Put some of the burden on them.
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I use HeroLab for some of the other systems I run or play, but the pricing scheme for HeroLab's pathfinder support is so high there's no way I can afford to get more than the core rules, and I don't have the time to type in everything manually. The price is okay for the core game, but the supplements are so expensive; and I feel like I'd have to either get the book, or the program addons; and there's no way I could afford both.
I may look into PCGen or use some of the AP NPCs. I guess; when it comes to AP sources, I just wish they weren't so spread out, and kindof hard to find the one I'm looking for. Though it would be a hell of alot easier than statting out everything in notepad/ms word in a creature statblock template like I've been doing lately, or filling in character sheets like I used to do.
Give all your players 500XP to draw up two NPCs each. Put some of the burden on them.
Heh. I did this already. It got me a few more options, but I still feel like I don't have enough of them, and they stopped building NPCs about 2 weeks into the campaign.
Though for this week's drow encounter; I'll be using James' suggestion and I'll be farming my second darkness AP for statblocks.
Thanks James!
I'd like to suggest a simple pdf product; simply taking the stat blocks of NPCs from each AP and putting them into a big PDF. Art optional (though you guys always outdo yourselves in art, so I imagine you'd put it in).
For Example
Second Darkness: NPC Collection
Second Darkness Bestiary
Council of Thieves: NPC Collection
Council of Thieves Bestiary
etc.
Just my 2 cp. I'd buy the things. Hell; I'd buy those even for AP's I wasn't interested in!
My advice is to wing it.
When you can, pick a fairly strong monster, and add a few class levels on the fly. Don't sweat the details. Skills can be 2X HD, as can attack bonuses. If you can, avoid having to add many class levels, as that starts to involve all sorts of class abilities, and decisions. Stick to the big stuff - spells, attacks, special abilities, etc. Don't even worry about the minor stuff, the creature probably won't ever live long snough to use most of it.
Note: If you are making a recurring villain or boss monster, you may have to work out some details. CMB/CMD and some of the things related to spellcraft, sense motive, and perception are common things that pop up depending on the type of encounter.
Also, take a look at everything about the game that is sapping the fun out. Perhaps skipping a session or taking a break from GM'ing for a month will renew the fun.
Finally, if you need a little help, ask on the forum, and someone will probably come to the rescue in a few minutes.
PS You mentioned wanting all the NPCs from the adventure path's? Well, the ones that were made for 3.5 have been converted by dedicated fans, and so you can get the Pathfinder versions of all those NPC's! I did this for Rise of the Runelords, and it saved me a ton of time. I recommend searching around the forums dedicated to each adventure path, or perhaps someone with better search-fu then I can post a link.
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The issue I have seen from many who find the prep work as unbearable when it comes to creating NPCs is to only create the bare necessities.
This is where I see 4e getting stuff right.
Are you creating NPCs that the party will socially interact with? Why stat them out? Jot a few notes down to what they are like.
Creating NPC villians? why are you fleshing them as if they were PCs? Give them only the essentials of what they will use. you don't need all teh feats..or skills or spells...
You don't need a full set of stats for every NPC...they get a good score in Prime Stat and just eyeball what else they have.
I use an index card on NPCs...and rarely use both sides.
I can definitely understand time constraints. You might look into a variant play style. E6 seems to be a system that requires a lot less work for a DM and keeps the game at a more simple level. I just finished my current game and have worked out with my players to switch to this variant.
Here are a few resources I've been looking at for E6:
Original 3.5 concept at ENworld
Thread covering some Pathfinder conversion ideas
There are a couple more threads in the Homebrew section on here as well.
This system may not eliminate the problem, but I could see it as reducing the time it takes to roll up NPCs and in the long run make them easily reusable.
I use an index card on NPCs...and rarely use both sides.
+1. Only important or recurring baddies need a big write-up. That is, if you plan to use them a lot. Hit points, saves, and important spells/feats/tricks are all they'll use until they either die or escape to face the party later. Ain't no 16th level wizard gonna bother with a cantrip with the PCs attacking!
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I think there are three basic solutions:
1) Run an Adventure Path: An AP requires preparation, but of a different kind. Mostly, it's about reading and understanding your adventure with a greatly reduced burden of NPC, encounter and monster design. This would appear to address your principal concerns.
2) Herolab: I highly recommend Herolab to every Pthfinder player and GM. Episode 013 of our podcast released today, feature an interview with the lead developer of Herolab together with our review of the product. Adding Bestiary 1 and Bestiary 2 to your existing copy of Herolab is $25 -- and it will address almost all of your current complaints. While I appreciate that it's more money than you really want to spend -- it's still money VERY well spent, imo.
3) Additional NPC Resource Books: As has been mentioned, there are several NPC books and rival guides to provide more NPCs. In particular, the NPCs in the Gamemastery Guide is excellent for this purpose.
None of these soluitions need be mutually exclusive and you could go with all three.
If you are a homebrew campaign fan, I can't recommend Herolab highly enough. If you find yourself truly wanting to continue to GM, but finding the prep time to be too involved -- Herolab is still, far and way, the best bang for the buck.
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You could take a break from GMing? However long you want?
Our GM is now just playing with us, & one of the players is GMing. The original GM got kind of burnt out.
If you don't want to take a break/step back from this, you could always run a game that focuses alot more on the storytelling aspect (not that you can't do this in Pathfdiner, but there are a lot less things like spells to worry about!) you could just pick up World of Darkness & play that. It's very fun & we play that when we're burnt out of the medieval/spells/fantasy thing & feel like a change of pace (this does not happen very often for us though haha. We shuffle GMs/Storytellers, which is another option for you)
Or there's chess. or boardgames. Or consoles. I hear the Kinect is fun!
Pathfinder rocks, but I think with anything that is so exciting & good, it can easily be overdone in your system haha.
edit: also the Adventure Modules mentioned are pretty amazing. Don't feel lazy about running a module as I used to. It's actually fun & Paizo does a great job. But you do what you want to do!
Am I the only one having this problem Re: making NPCs and Time requirements?
I never had this problem with NPCs...at any level I can build them out pretty quickly( I usualy to up to level 5 just on the fly)...I try to keep them simple and to the point. Also use NPCs and monsters w/ class levels alot in my games so I have alot of practice doing it(with 3rd ed thru Pathfinder 10+ years).
I would really have to see how you stat block NPCs to give advice on how to do it faster.
But here is a little advice
Never throw out a old one. Who knows when you might need it again...it is alot faster to mod a existing stat block than to creat one from scatch.
As others have said use stat block from modules and the APs...even if you have to adjust them...it is faster than creating a new one.
I use HeroLab for some of the other systems I run or play, but the pricing scheme for HeroLab's pathfinder support is so high there's no way I can afford to get more than the core rules, and I don't have the time to type in everything manually. The price is okay for the core game, but the supplements are so expensive; and I feel like I'd have to either get the book, or the program addons; and there's no way I could afford both.
I may look into PCGen or use some of the AP NPCs. I guess; when it comes to AP sources, I just wish they weren't so spread out, and kindof hard to find the one I'm looking for. Though it would be a hell of alot easier than statting out everything in notepad/ms word in a creature statblock template like I've been doing lately, or filling in character sheets like I used to do.
Give all your players 500XP to draw up two NPCs each. Put some of the burden on them.Heh. I did this already. It got me a few more options, but I still feel like I don't have enough of them, and they stopped building NPCs about 2 weeks into the campaign.
Though for this week's drow encounter; I'll be using James' suggestion and I'll be farming my second darkness AP for statblocks.
Thanks James!
I'd like to suggest a simple pdf product; simply taking the stat blocks of NPCs from each AP and putting them into a big PDF. Art optional (though you guys always outdo yourselves in art, so I imagine you'd put it in).
For Example
Second Darkness: NPC Collection
Second Darkness Bestiary
Council of Thieves: NPC Collection
Council of Thieves Bestiary
etc.
Just my 2 cp. I'd buy the things. Hell; I'd buy those even for AP's I wasn't interested in!
You don't pay for every rules update. You pay once for each game system. As an example you would pay for pathfinder once, 4th edition once, and so on.
Once you pay the 20 or 30 for a system you don't have to pay for it again.
Am I the only one having this problem Re: making NPCs and Time requirements?I never had this problem with NPCs...at any level I can build them out pretty quickly( I usualy to up to level 5 just on the fly)...I try to keep them simple and to the point. Also use NPCs and monsters w/ class levels alot in my games so I have alot of practice doing it(with 3rd ed thru Pathfinder 10+ years).
I would really have to see how you stat block NPCs to give advice on how to do it faster.
But here is a little advice
Never throw out a old one. Who knows when you might need it again...it is alot faster to mod a existing stat block than to creat one from scatch.
As others have said use stat block from modules and the APs...even if you have to adjust them...it is faster than creating a new one.
The ones that take a while are the higher levels ones, and he is probably like me in the fact that he does a full stat block. Making an effective character that is high level in 10 or so minutes is hard to do.
Raging Swans has an excellent PDF line called "Tribes" that takes a race of common monsters such as hobgoblins, lizardmen, etc. and stats them up for various CR ranges, usually 1-9. At 3.99 a pop, they are cheap and if PDFs aren't your thing, they are designed to go easy on the printer if you want to print them out.
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You don't pay for every rules update. You pay once for each game system. As an example you would pay for pathfinder once, 4th edition once, and so on.
Once you pay the 20 or 30 for a system you don't have to pay for it again.
I just double checked; it IS a little more affordable than I originally thought.
How's the tech support for pathfinder? I found a bug in the WoD package that crashes the game, and when I asked for help with it I was simply ignored. It's one thing to do that when I get something for free; but if I paid for it; I should get support when your program starts crashing.
I, too, have let out a sigh or two on occasion with regards the lengthy prep time, going way back to the early days of 3.x. On the other hand, the plethora of ingredients at the GM's disposal is the flip side of that problem, and makes it worth it for me.
To help speed prep, I not only keep my NPCs and monsters in handy electronic files, I also print them out on cards the size of the D&D minis cards (but in easier-to-read format). So I have a library of odd builds, NPCs, customized monsters and unique creatures as well. Depending on context and a quick switch of racial abilities, my players never know they're facing a similar (or practically the same) NPC as before.
Lately, I am finding the NPC in the Gamemastery Guide highly helpful. A quick change of weapon or bloodline here and there, and voila! Instant custom NPC.
Wow my experience is quite the opposite... I find I can prep for 6-8 hours of gameplay in about an hour tops.
I've been running a campaign for a while (in depth, lots of kingdom politics and intrigue - as well as enough bash to keep the bloodthirsty happy) and haven't had any big dramas.
I think the key point is to not try and make one of everything, or have tooooo many working parts unless they are sort of uniform... why design 8 different types of Drow? It wouldn't make much sense for those Drow to be very different (if much at all) and their Equipment would likewise be uniform. Look for ways to reduce the effort, not increase it, particularly when it doesnt add value/make sense.
Otherwise;
1) Run modules/AP's so you can just read up and then run
or
2) Have another (competent!!) player be a GM for a while.
We have a small group, but I started a campaign to give our normal GM a break, and we intersperse our games so neither gets burn out.
You don't pay for every rules update. You pay once for each game system. As an example you would pay for pathfinder once, 4th edition once, and so on.
Once you pay the 20 or 30 for a system you don't have to pay for it again.I just double checked; it IS a little more affordable than I originally thought.
How's the tech support for pathfinder? I found a bug in the WoD package that crashes the game, and when I asked for help with it I was simply ignored. It's one thing to do that when I get something for free; but if I paid for it; I should get support when your program starts crashing.
I don't know. I have never heard of the program crashing. I would suggest calling them if they don't answer emails.
The ones that take a while are the higher levels ones, and he is probably like me in the fact that he does a full stat block. Making an effective character that is high level in 10 or so minutes is hard to do.
It takes me about 20 min to make a 20th level to low epic level effective NPC(with a complete stat block). I am not saying that as a sign of my superiority...or to belittle people. It just comes easy to me.
But everytime I hear this complaint...it gets me curious as to why others have this problem and I like to help if I can.
That is why I ask the OP to go though the process on how he creats a stat block....to see where the trouble spots are. Maybe we can cut that 40 min down a little.
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Sean K. Reynolds used to do a bit (on LiveJournal) about "shaving off the serial numbers" in which he would take a monster from the Bestiary, describe in differently, and use it as an NPC of the appropriate level. You could, for instance, use:
A Derro (CR3) for a small rogue/wizard that focuses on using darkness...
A Gargoyle (CR4) for a medium fighter in heavy armor that's been blessed with weird abilities...
A Sea Hag (CR 4) for a human Witch that's out of spells..
A Rakasha (CR 10) for a human Sorcerer...
And so on.
It's a great idea (I'm sure he was more stuff like this on his website, but I'm not sure).
The ones that take a while are the higher levels ones, and he is probably like me in the fact that he does a full stat block. Making an effective character that is high level in 10 or so minutes is hard to do.It takes me about 20 min to make a 20th level to low epic level effective NPC(with a complete stat block). I am not saying that as a sign of my superiority...or to belittle people. It just comes easy to me.
But everytime I hear this complaint...it gets me curious as to why others have this problem and I like to help if I can.
That is why I ask the OP to go though the process on how he creats a stat block....to see where the trouble spots are. Maybe we can cut that 40 min down a little.
You have to choose all the feats, all the spells, pick the equipment. Make sure you did not go over the budget which means checking the prices. You have to check to make sure you got the exact right amount of spells, and so on. You have to decide what skills to use. I can throw together a high level caster in a short amount of time by approximating the equipment value, but if I go can check it down to the exact number it takes a lot longer. You may have more of the book memorized than most people if you can do it so quickly.
If you are someone who has to look up every detail then it will take a very long time.Just hand copying a high level character takes up time, and that does not even include the decision making process
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Another possible resource to "mine" might be some Living Campaign modules (such as PFS scenarios or Shining Jewel modules)- they have multiple enemy stat-blocks for different level characters to go against (ie. there'll be a level one version of an enemy that scales up to a certain maximum level of up to 5th, 6th, or even 7th).
See, I think 20 minutes is totally unexceptable for any npc. I like 3 minutes as a maximum. I think you have to have a lot of love for crafting characters, which there is nothing wrong with btw, to not mind spending that much time.The ones that take a while are the higher levels ones, and he is probably like me in the fact that he does a full stat block. Making an effective character that is high level in 10 or so minutes is hard to do.It takes me about 20 min to make a 20th level to low epic level effective NPC(with a complete stat block). I am not saying that as a sign of my superiority...or to belittle people. It just comes easy to me.
But everytime I hear this complaint...it gets me curious as to why others have this problem and I like to help if I can.
That is why I ask the OP to go though the process on how he creats a stat block....to see where the trouble spots are. Maybe we can cut that 40 min down a little.
I don't think a high level npc and a low level one will ever take the same amount of time in pathfinder. I don't think 20 minutes is a long time though. 20 minutes is the low end of the scale really and that is normally for melee types. If you are making a caster it may take an hour or more.
I don't think I could be exact and do a melee pc/npc in 3 minutes even at level 10.
See, I think 20 minutes is totally unexceptable for any npc. I like 3 minutes as a maximum. I think you have to have a lot of love for crafting characters, which there is nothing wrong with btw, to not mind spending that much time.
Did you mean unacceptable?
Meh if I take a already crafted stat block...at any level I can adjust it to what I need within 3 minutes.
To me though 3 minutes....mmm...maybe that is a difference. Coming up with the concept of the NPC is what I love to do...it is one of the things I really love to do....and to me the stat block is just a extension of concept.
How long do you spend on fleshing out the NPC? I mean conceptualy not mechanicaly? Because I think I combine the two here.
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That is why I ask the OP to go though the process on how he creats a stat block....to see where the trouble spots are. Maybe we can cut that 40 min down a little.
It's the picking of gear, spells, and feats, that slow everything down, mainly - And it takes me some time doing the calculations for the numbers on top of that.
Here's the basic process I follow (unless I'm building them at multiple levels at once, then it's slightly different).
- Pick the race, class, and level. Pick any archetypes.
- Determine base stats; add racial mods; figure out where I'm going to boost the stats at levelup.
- Write Down BAB, CMB, CMD, And Caster Levels.
- Write down all the class features you don't get a choice for.
- Calculate the total number of skill points I get.
- Spend Skill Points - Takes maybe 5 minutes before I know where they're all going.
- Choose Feats: Takes 3 or 4 minutes Per Feat; and time per feat goes up if I have a hard time choosing between feats.
- Choose Spells: Takes Maybe 5-10 minutes to do the whole spell selection.
- Choosing Gear: Figuring out what gear to give an NPC once I'm in the price range where I need to consider magic gear goes really slow.
A 5th or 6th level character takes me about 15-20 minutes. the 40 minutes is for the higher level NPCs - and gear gets harder and harder for me to pick out as the amount to spend goes up; whereas feats get a little easier because I don't feel as feat-starved.
You have to choose all the feats, all the spells, pick the equipment. Make sure you did not go over the budget which means checking the prices. You have to check to make sure you got the exact right amount of spells, and so on. You have to decide what skills to use. I can throw together a high level caster in a short amount of time by approximating the equipment value, but if I go can check it down to the exact number it takes a lot longer. You may have more of the book memorized than most people if you can do it so quickly.
If you are someone who has to look up every detail then it will take a very long time.Just hand copying a high level character takes up time, and that does not even include the decision making process
True I have do have a good memory of the book...and tend to view wealth by level and NPCs allowance as guidelines more than RULES...as in I don't mind if I am a little over or under so I don't agonize on that as much.
Also another possible factor is I play more than I GM...so I am more familiar with the rules on classes and such.
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- Choose Feats: Takes 3 or 4 minutes Per Feat; and time per feat goes up if I have a hard time choosing between feats.
The rest of that sounds rigt, but this sounds like way too long. If you don't remember the Feat off the top of your head, odds favor it not being that needed or useful for the NPC.
I mean, maybe you need to look some stuff up for a high level Fighter, but most characters you can't go wrong with the basics.
I mean, this isn't a PC you're creating here where you'll have to live with the choice forever, it's someone the PCs are going to meet, interact with, maybe kill, but not someone they'll be friends with forever.
And if they are friends with them forever, odds are they won't fight them, so you can fine-tune the Feat selection without continuity error thereafter.
True I have do have a good memory of the book...and tend to view wealth by level and NPCs allowance as guidelines more than RULES...as in I don't mind if I am a little over or under so I don't agonize on that as much.Also another possible factor is I play more than I GM...so I am more familiar with the rules on classes and such.
Winging it takes out a considerable amount of time. I thought you were saying you counted every last stat down to the exact number without exclusion and never had to check the book.
In that case 20 mins is possible, but I can't check the book, come do the concept, and the mechanics to a tee all in 20. I don't write all that fast either though.
Meh if I want to do a top down design I throw the stats through the Erian 7 sheet, case closed pretty quick. Sorts WBL and all.
20 minutes? It takes me roughly 20 minutes per level of the character. Then again, I am a little obsessive and have to have everything just right.
Then again, I am a little obsessive and have to have everything just right.
Which is cool, as long as you are having fun and dont mind the time spend :)
Winging it takes out a considerable amount of time. I thought you were saying you counted every last stat down to the exact number without exclusion and never had to check the book.
Yeah....I usualy know the stats...etc by off the top of my head...or can find the info in the books pretty quickly.
As for the equipment...I do wing it. But mostly because I have always felt that sticking to that chart was not a good idea for the game. It is useful as a guideline...and I am usualy close to it...but I think it is a waste of time to count every gp value you put in a adventure.
My number one rule is does this challenge my PCs?
In that case 20 mins is possible, but I can't check the book, come do the concept, and the mechanics to a tee all in 20. I don't write all that fast either though.
I use my version of D&D short hand for alot of it. Which alot people don't understand...but since it is for my use...it is not important if other people understand it.
I would listen to your first instinct and when you game ends take a break from GM duty. Play in a game for a while and relax.
I find that after a break from GMing and just being a player I get that itch to run a game again. Once you get back to it the net has tons of resources that you can plunder, dmtools.org for example.
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You don't pay for every rules update. You pay once for each game system. As an example you would pay for pathfinder once, 4th edition once, and so on.
Once you pay the 20 or 30 for a system you don't have to pay for it again.
If you're talking about Hero Lab, you do only pay for the system once, but for Pathfinder, you DO however pay for the content of the books beyond the core rules (such as Bestiary 1 and 2, and the APG for example)...
If you were talking about something else, then I apologize...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
You don't pay for every rules update. You pay once for each game system. As an example you would pay for pathfinder once, 4th edition once, and so on.
Once you pay the 20 or 30 for a system you don't have to pay for it again.If you're talking about Hero Lab, you do only pay for the system once, but for Pathfinder, you DO pay for the content of the books beyond the core rules (such as Bestiary 1 and 2, and the APG for example)...
If you were talking about something else, then I apologize...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
Herolabs needs to put that on their website. I was about to get it for pathfinder.
Edit:It is on the site on the pathfinder page. here
Why not tap into the vast resource that is the Paizo community? In this thread alone, half a dozen people have commented about their ability to put together NPC in a short (or not so short) amount of time.
Every time you need an NPC and don't have the time, simply open a thread titled "NPC request: 8th level Drow assassin" or whatever it is you need. Drop a few key points about the character concept, and what type of gear, gp limit etc. you'd like. I'd be very surprised if you didn't have a handful of different options to choose from within a day or two.
Actually, I'm gonna pop over to the website suggestion forum and suggest they make a separate sub-forum to host such threads, since in time it would come to serve as a goldmine of NPC's to skim through and cherrypick from other people's requests.
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Very Quick NPC creation:
1. Go Here.
2. Pick a CR and copy the stats.
3. If you're emulating a spell caster use the "Low Attack" and then choose 2 spells of Level equal to half the CR, 5 Spells of a level below that and fudge any lower level spells (just choose from the appropriate list).
4. If you're emulating a martial class choose a feat tree (Power Attack/Two Weapon Fighting/Spring Attack/Archery) - give them feats equal to their CR.
5. If you're emulating a rogue, add Sneak Attack Dice = half CR.
6. If you're emulating a cleric, add channelling Dice = half CR.
Should take about 3 minutes, maybe 6 for a spell caster.
Have you looked at this?
Go to NPC Gallery.
Or check out the excellent NPC section at www.d20pfsrd.com for even more NPCs.
Also http://www.pathfinderdb.com/gamemaster-tools/npcs/full-npc-list
Hello all, first time poster, be gentle with me...
The OP struck a chord with me, since I got burned out GMing a high-level 3.5 campaign. Didn't want anything to do with anything Dungeons for years... only recently got lured into Pathfinder, as a player. PF sure looks like an improvement over 3.5... from a player POW.
Anyway... for me it wasn't the time required to create the NPCs, but the time and effort required to understand them: As in, what ability or combo makes this character/monster a worthy foe of the PCs, and what tactics should it use under what circumstances?
I found that building characters was a good way to gain that insight; and I loved -- love -- building characters. It's an intellectual challenge; a creative process.
And that is both a strength and a weakness of the system. A strength in that it makes character building a game in itself, which is a strong attraction for some kinds of players (and GMs). A weakness in that this intellectual challenge can easily become too challenging and time-consuming, burning you out; and it also is in danger of eclipsing other aspects of the game, such as roleplaying.
Many of the respondents have recommended using character-generation software, and I'm sure that will ease the bookkeeping aspects of the job, and may speed things up significantly. But I don't think it'll help much with the steep learning curve.
I have GMed several other games, most notably Vampire (both the Masquerade and Dark Ages), and I agree with the OP that they run much more smoothly at higher levels. Or at least they can... They require much less bookkeeping, but they also require the Storyteller (GM) to "wing it" (as somebody suggested above) all the time. This can work very well with the right players... but you (players and Storyteller) must ALL be committed to ROLEplaying, and there really is not much in the way of inherent balance in the system, so a dominant player can really wreck a campaign.
So I really appreciated the "no player left behind" balance introduced in 3.0 (and improved in 3.5, and apparently further improved in PF), and tried, as far as possible, to stick to The Rules. "Don't try to second-guess an extensively playtested system"...
Which worked wonderfully at low-to-mid-level play. But at higher level... Oh the nuts, oh the bolts...
In the end, if your players are cooperative (both amongst themselves and with you), wing it. A high-level party is almost impossible to eradicate, anyway, and anything less is just a temporary setback.
If they're not cooperative, I don't know what to do and would appreciate advice.
