| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
From the PRD
School evocation [force]; Level cleric 4
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, DF
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect spiritual ally of force
Duration 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes
An ally made of pure force appears in a single 5-foot square within range. The ally takes the form of a servant of your god. The spiritual ally occupies its space, though you and your allies can move through it, since it is your ally. The spiritual ally carries a single weapon, one favored by your deity (as for spiritual weapon), which has the same threat range and critical modifiers as a real weapon of its form. Each round on your turn, starting with the turn that you cast this spell, your spiritual ally can make an attack against a foe within its reach that you designate. The spiritual ally threatens adjacent squares and can flank and make attacks of opportunity as if it were a normal creature. The spiritual ally uses your base attack bonus (gaining extra attacks if your base attack bonus is high enough) plus your Wisdom bonus when it makes a melee attack. When the spiritual ally hits, it deals 1d10 points of force damage + 1 point of damage per 3 caster levels (maximum +5 at 15th level). It strikes as a spell, not a weapon, so it bypasses DR and can affect incorporeal creatures.
Each round after the first, you can move the spiritual ally as a swift action. It has a speed of 30 feet, and a fly speed of 30 feet (perfect maneuverability). Being a construct of force, the spiritual ally cannot be harmed by any physical attacks, but dispel magic, disintegrate, a sphere of annihilation, or a rod of cancellation affects it. A spiritual ally's AC against touch attacks is 10.
If an attacked creature has spell resistance, you make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against that spell resistance the first time the spiritual ally strikes it. If the ally is successfully resisted, the spell is dispelled. If not, the weapon has its normal full effect on that creature for the duration of the spell.
My question is how does your spiritual ally threaten and take attacks of opportunity when your god's favored weapon is a longbow? Or is there a ruling somewhere that someone can link for bows being used as a improvised weapon?
From the PRD
** spoiler omitted **...
Bows don't threaten squares so it would not get to do so. An arrow can be used as an improvised dagger, but I don't think the spiritual ally which is magic as opposed to an actual creature has the intuition to try to do so, and you don't really get to give it such explicit commands by my read of the spell as to use an an arrow in that way.
Any other takes on this one? Or does the spell just trump the rules in this case?
The spell says "as if it were a normal creature". If a normal creature couldn't threaten or flank in a given situation, neither could the spiritual ally.
There are two ways to read this:
1) This spell is COMPLETELY useless for worshipers of a deity with a ranged favored weapon.
2) This spell has nothing to do with weapons other than taking their crit range and modifier. The spell specifically states the ally threatens adjacent squares. It doesn't matter what weapon it has.
There are two ways to read this:
1) This spell is COMPLETELY useless for worshipers of a deity with a ranged favored weapon.
2) This spell has nothing to do with weapons other than taking their crit range and modifier. The spell specifically states the ally threatens adjacent squares. It doesn't matter what weapon it has.
Each round on your turn, starting with the turn that you cast this spell, your spiritual ally can make an attack against a foe within its reach that you designate.
While it can't make an AOO. The ally should be able to attack targets at range with its bow.
There are two ways to read this:
1) This spell is COMPLETELY useless for worshipers of a deity with a ranged favored weapon.
No, the spiritual ally can still attack normally as a longbow, it just can't flank or perform AoOs. Since attacking normally is what you generally want to do with the spell, losing those two added benefits doesn't exactly make the spell COMPLETELY useless, as you say. It's still highly useful (maybe even more so, since longbows are ranged weapons).
There are two ways to read this:
1) This spell is COMPLETELY useless for worshipers of a deity with a ranged favored weapon.
No, the spiritual ally can still attack normally as a longbow, it just can't flank or perform AoOs. Since attacking normally is what you generally want to do with the spell, losing those two added benefits doesn't exactly make the spell COMPLETELY useless, as you say. It's still highly useful (maybe even more so, since longbows are ranged weapons).
False. It then makes it a level 4 spiritual weapon. Useless.
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
False. It then makes it a level 4 spiritual weapon. Useless.
Except you can move it as a swift action rather than as a move action.
Just noticed something else different:
The description for spiritual ally says "The spiritual ally uses your base attack bonus (gaining extra attacks if your base attack bonus is high enough) plus your Wisdom bonus when it makes a melee attack."
The same section for spiritual weapon uses "as its attack bonus" instead of the bolded part of that. That is an indication that spiritual ally is indeed meant to only be able to perform melee attacks, regardless of which type your deity's favored weapon is.
Which still doesn't give any hint on what weapon it's supposed to use.
Ok who wrote this?
The implications of the spell seem to suggest only melee. But it certainly leaves it open. I'm only guessing but I'm thinking Cartigan's 2nd scenario is the most appropriate one.
"This spell creates an ally made of force that is a representation of your diety..."
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EXPECTO PATRONUM!
I say make it look like a longbow, use a longbow's critical and that's it with the longbow things, have it needing to be in melee in order to attack (don't make range attacks) and use the spell effects in order to avoid confusion.
I was just about to post something, but then I saw leo's post so now I'll go with
+1
Just noticed something else different:
The description for spiritual ally says "The spiritual ally uses your base attack bonus (gaining extra attacks if your base attack bonus is high enough) plus your Wisdom bonus when it makes a melee attack."
The same section for spiritual weapon uses "as its attack bonus" instead of the bolded part of that. That is an indication that spiritual ally is indeed meant to only be able to perform melee attacks, regardless of which type your deity's favored weapon is.
I would replace the bolded text with that you noted from the spititual weapon spell; the ranged attack bonus for a spiritual ally would be identical to its melee attack bonus. It would not threaten any squares, but I think it's already been pointed out that the spell takes that particular aspect into account as written.
Everyone just FAQ and maybe some one will amble in here and explain how the hell the spell is supposed to work.
False. It then makes it a level 4 spiritual weapon. Useless.Except you can move it as a swift action rather than as a move action.
Being able to move it as a swift action is not worth 2 spell levels, nor is a single damage dice increase.
Creative Director
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If your deity's favored weapon is a ranged weapon like a longbow, then it does not threaten squares at all. It's treated as if it's using a longbow, and that means it trades range off for being able to make attacks of opportunity.
Whether or not that means you think the spell is useless and/or just a higher level spiritual weapon for clerics who have deities who grant ranged favored weapons is a matter of opinion. And it's also annoying hyperbole.
But not every spell should be or IS equally useful to every spellcaster. Is water breathing useless because a sahuagin spellcaster could cast it? Is mind blank useless because a creature that's immune to mind-affecting spells can cast it? Of course not. Same goes for spiritual ally.
If you're a cleric and you worship Erastil and you think this spell's lame... it's a good thing there are lots of other choices for spells to cast.
If your deity's favored weapon is a ranged weapon like a longbow, then it does not threaten squares at all. It's treated as if it's using a longbow, and that means it trades range off for being able to make attacks of opportunity.
Whether or not that means you think the spell is useless and/or just a higher level spiritual weapon for clerics who have deities who grant ranged favored weapons is a matter of opinion. And it's also annoying hyperbole.
But not every spell should be or IS equally useful to every spellcaster. Is water breathing useless because a sahuagin spellcaster could cast it? Is mind blank useless because a creature that's immune to mind-affecting spells can cast it? Of course not. Same goes for spiritual ally.
If you're a cleric and you worship Erastil and you think this spell's lame... it's a good thing there are lots of other choices for spells to cast.
LOL
There might, however, be a bit of errating needed due to the words 'melee attack' being in the spell. Perhaps remove melee and just make it 'attack'.
But not every spell should be or IS equally useful to every spellcaster. Is water breathing useless because a sahuagin spellcaster could cast it? Is mind blank useless because a creature that's immune to mind-affecting spells can cast it? Of course not. Same goes for spiritual ally.
I think gimping Clerics based on their choice of deity is the wrong way to go. "Oh, you worship Erastil? Sucks for you. My identical spells work much better for worshiping Iomedae."
So how many PCs are going to play Sahuagins? Races with immunity to mind-affecting spells?If you're a cleric and you worship Erastil and you think this spell's lame... it's a good thing there are lots of other choices for spells to cast.
And you are significantly limited in offensive spells.
Also, wth happened to Golariopedia? I recall this thing being easier to navigate previously.
I like this spell because it is like a summon monster with better flavour and super style. The Damage may be bad, but it flanks, blocks movement and ignores DR.
IIRC, Erastil likes Spears too, which has the same damage and crit range as the bow, so a simple skin change lets this work in melee for an Erastilian.
IIRD, Erastil likes Spears too, which has the same damage and crit range as the bow, so a simple skin change lets this work in melee for an Erastilian.
I see way too much of this on these forums.
Your slavery to the written rule clouds your vision :)IIRD, Erastil likes Spears too, which has the same damage and crit range as the bow, so a simple skin change lets this work in melee for an Erastilian.I see way too much of this on these forums.
I would be cool with "Have your DM adjudicate our confusingly written game piece" if not for Pathfinder society's existence. That fact lays responsibility on Paizo to do more than say "Ask your DM."
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I would be cool with "Have your DM adjudicate our confusingly written game piece" if not for Pathfinder society's existenceYour slavery to the written rule clouds your vision :)IIRD, Erastil likes Spears too, which has the same damage and crit range as the bow, so a simple skin change lets this work in melee for an Erastilian.I see way too much of this on these forums.
I'd likely strangle any Cleric blowing level 4 slots on Spiritual Ally first and worry about the spell wording later :)
I'd likely strangle any Cleric blowing level 4 slots on Spiritual Ally first and worry about the spell wording later :)I would be cool with "Have your DM adjudicate our confusingly written game piece" if not for Pathfinder society's existenceYour slavery to the written rule clouds your vision :)IIRD, Erastil likes Spears too, which has the same damage and crit range as the bow, so a simple skin change lets this work in melee for an Erastilian.I see way too much of this on these forums.
It is silly but that is widely beside the point.
I see way too much of this on these forums.
People trying to be helpful?
I see way too much of this on these forums.People trying to be helpful?
That would have been clever about 4 posts ago before we got into the actual explanation.
But not every spell should be or IS equally useful to every spellcaster.I think gimping Clerics based on their choice of deity is the wrong way to go. "Oh, you worship Erastil? Sucks for you. My identical spells work much better for worshiping Iomedae."
So how many PCs are going to play Sahuagins? Races with immunity to mind-affecting spells?
The examples are pretty much just extreme cases to show the point: some spells are not equally useful to every spellcaster.
If you want more relevant examples:
- Summon monster - Good wizard: "Sucks for you, evil wizard, my summoned animals can smite almost every foe we encounter!" Neutral cleric: "Sucks on both of you, my minions smite everybody!"
- Iron Jaw / Lead blades / Gravity Bow - They are a whole lot more useful for the ranger who uses that kind of weapon. By fourth level the natural weapons dude is gonna envy the others, later on the tables are turned.
- Any evocation spells (or actually any wizard spells) - Choice of specialty and opposed schools is gonna matter a lot to the effect of the spells you use, compared to another wizard.
Spiritual ally:
I actually don't think it is that much worse to have the bow.
Both can make an attack.
Con: You can't flank and make AoOs.
Pro: You don't have to spend a swift action to move the thing around.
Pro: Not having to spend a swift action, makes it useful to cast several times to gain additional allies. Multiple melee allies is gonna stand around doing nothing, as soon as the enemy takes a 5-foot step.
Clerics are already treated differently depending on their deity's favoured weapon. Erastil's priests can use a longbow, because they get that proficiency for free. Iomedae gets the longsword! Pharasma's clerics get the dagger. Oh wow! A weapon that is not only already on the list of weapons every cleric can use, but also one that doesn't fit the typical cleric (he of the weapon and shield and the battle buff spells, wading into the fray) at all.
Them's the breaks.