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A few comments / suggestion, based on recent playtests:
- dead shot should cost no grit if there is one grit point left; despite the touch AC feature of guns being somewhat an equalizer here, high level gunslingers will be bored to death due to the rapidly decreasing grit points --> SUGGESTION: if dead shot is not a "AS LONG AS YOU HAVE ONE GRIT POINT LEFT" type of deed, the grit point reserve should reset each hour, or likewise replenish at a rate of 1 every 10 minutes...
- it should be clear that you can add Dex bonus to damage, magical enhancement bonus, sneak damage, flaming-type energy bonus, etc. for each attack you roll as part of the dead shot... as it reads, it sounds like you do this only once (i.e. like one big vital strike), which appears underpowered based on the playtest (please clarify if the latter applies) Again, Touch AC is somewhat an equalizer, as the pickleshot playtest used full AC...
- pepperbox: I'm really curious as to how this new gun, and other guns presented in round 2, will play out in the new playtests... I think we should get clarifications as to which firearms are available in the Golarion world (i.e. Inner Sea has pepperbox, pistol and musket, but the playtest has a whole new bunch, and it is not clear as to which ones will be unlocked by Ultimate Combat, in regards to *Golarion*)
Cheers!
Pretty sure it's only adding dice.
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I'm actually rather confused by this as well. To me if you only add one die of damage, then it's just a horrible version of Vital Strike*. I'm pretty sure this basically should work like manshot, but with potential for more than 2 "arrows." Of course if the intent is just to add a single die of damage, then Dead Shot is almost worthless, as it costs a grit point and is a full round attack... whereas you can Vital Strike with a musket as much as you want.
*The only advantage Dead Shot has is that you get multiple chances to crit. But I think that is outweighed by the decreased chance to add each die of damage. E.G. If the chance to hit with Vital Strike is 50%, then the first attack of Dead Shot is 50%, the same. But then each additional attack has -25% chance to add one die... where Vital strike is guaranteed with that first 50% chance.
Im not sure i follow that at all.
Dead shot takes you extra iterative attacks and turns them into dice, but you only get things like sneak attack, or flaming once. AS I understand it you should get your dex to damage and deadly aim for each dice.
IF you do not yea it's pretty much garbage that it cost a grit to do it.
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My reading comes from this part of Dead Shot:
...she does 2d12 points of damage with the shot, instead of 1d12 points of damage, before adding any damage modifiers. Precision damage and extra damage from special weapon qualities (such as flaming) are added with damage modifiers and are not increased by this deed.
From my reading it says that you add 1d12 damage before any modifiers, and then the next sentence says that precision and weapon qualities are added with damage modifiers, which aren't multiplied. I'm not sure this is the intent of the rule, but that's what I'm reading from it.
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My reading comes from this part of Dead Shot:
...she does 2d12 points of damage with the shot, instead of 1d12 points of damage, before adding any damage modifiers. Precision damage and extra damage from special weapon qualities (such as flaming) are added with damage modifiers and are not increased by this deed.From my reading it says that you add 1d12 damage before any modifiers, and then the next sentence says that precision and weapon qualities are added with damage modifiers, which aren't multiplied. I'm not sure this is the intent of the rule, but that's what I'm reading from it.
This is pretty much what I read as well. It is underpowered in comparison to the pickleshot, which just lets you roll all your attacks normally. Now that this is costing grit as well, I am a bit disappointed.
HOWEVER, I will say this: the Touch AC (iron golems with AC 8 and high CR red dragons AC 5) feature *should* allow for creative use of feats, as the gunslinger will almost always hit... so stack up the deadly aim, combat expertise, and other minus to the attack rolls kinda feats at close range baby...
QUESTIONS (dhtbifom):
1. can you stack combat expertise and deadly aim?
2. can you shoot with a buckler? (just like a bow user)
3. does the gunslinger class give access to shields (bucklers)?
4. what other feats work like combat expertise and deadly aim?
5. I think all gunslingers get lightning reload now, but do they get this at high levels only? if so, is a hireling/cohort gun reloader guy the best option to deal with this problem?
Cheers!
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5. I think all gunslingers get lightning reload now, but do they get this at high levels only? if so, is a hireling/cohort gun reloader guy the best option to deal with this problem?
They get lightning reload a 11th level, but it only allows one reload per round.
The best option is not using two handed firearms. With Rapid Reload and cartridges, it should be possible to make full attacks with pistols, including Rapid Shot.I made the following proposal to make two-handed firearms more viable:
- Two-handed firearms add 1.5 times dexterity bonus on damage
- Dead Shot no longer needs grit, it's usable as long as the gunslinger has grit. It has an additional feature, though, that allows the gunslinger to spend grit to reload the gun as part of the full-round action. This allows musketeers to use Dead Shot once per round before level 11, at the cost of grit.
- Dead Shot adds full bonuses on damage, but doesn't grant extra attacks for Rapid Shot and Haste.
- You can score only one critical hit per Dead Shot, similar to Manyshot.
It might seem strong, but unless I'm wrong and cartridges and Rapid Reload don't allow free reloads, muskets would be extremely suboptimal when compared to pistols. This way, while both have their advantages, they should be pretty equal.
i think doubling the weapon dice per atk would be a quick fix 2 that problem instead of 1d12 doing 2d12 so 3 shots landing doing 6d12.
i think doubling the weapon dice per atk would be a quick fix 2 that problem instead of 1d12 doing 2d12 so 3 shots landing doing 6d12.
So, more or less, each attack roll deals damage like the Vital Strike feat.
My reading comes from this part of Dead Shot:
...she does 2d12 points of damage with the shot, instead of 1d12 points of damage, before adding any damage modifiers. Precision damage and extra damage from special weapon qualities (such as flaming) are added with damage modifiers and are not increased by this deed.From my reading it says that you add 1d12 damage before any modifiers, and then the next sentence says that precision and weapon qualities are added with damage modifiers, which aren't multiplied. I'm not sure this is the intent of the rule, but that's what I'm reading from it.This is pretty much what I read as well. It is underpowered in comparison to the pickleshot, which just lets you roll all your attacks normally. Now that this is costing grit as well, I am a bit disappointed.
HOWEVER, I will say this: the Touch AC (iron golems with AC 8 and high CR red dragons AC 5) feature *should* allow for creative use of feats, as the gunslinger will almost always hit... so stack up the deadly aim, combat expertise, and other minus to the attack rolls kinda feats at close range baby...
QUESTIONS (dhtbifom):
1. can you stack combat expertise and deadly aim?
2. can you shoot with a buckler? (just like a bow user)
3. does the gunslinger class give access to shields (bucklers)?
4. what other feats work like combat expertise and deadly aim?
5. I think all gunslingers get lightning reload now, but do they get this at high levels only? if so, is a hireling/cohort gun reloader guy the best option to deal with this problem?Cheers!
1. Combat expertise can only be used with melee attacks and cmb checks
2. yes, but the buckler only grants AC if you don't use it for anything else and you get a penalty to attack rolls3. Not sure, don't think so, but darkwood, mithril or masterwork has armor check penalty 0 and can be used by everyone without penalty
4. None I can think of that work with guns
5. yes pretty high level and only once per round, dead shot is usually a better option than a full attack