I once made a deal with my DM to trade normal vision for tremor sense, it worked out alright. You don't get a -4 str, you get a -4 to str and dex based skill checks and opposed perception checks. More to come.
Also, under the blinded condition (page 565) the last line says "Characters who remain blinded for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them.
New thoughts. A monks AC bonus (including Wis bonus to AC) does not go away if you are flat footed, and uncanny dodge means you cannot be caught flat footed. 2 levels of Barbarian can grant uncanny dodge.
Isn't the whole point of "blind" swordsmen that they are so awesome they act as if they can see?
Just flavor it. :-p
Dwarves can eventually get a feat called stone sense (APG) to gain 10ft tremorsense. It requires perception 10 ranks and improved stonecunning.
I think that flavorwise a weapon adept monk with a temple sword would be appropriate. Perfect Strike will let you roll twice and take the better attack roll once per day per monk level. The monks AC bonus was mentioned by Kierato. And at 17th you get perfect initiative rolls to avoid being flat footed.
Ask if you can waive the perception requirements for the blind fight chain in the APG. This could be your character adaption to being blind.
Suggeted Feats: Human Weapon Adept Monk 2
Human Bonus: Blind Fight
Normal: Whatever sets up your favorite fighting style
Monk Bonus: Deflect Arrows, Combat Reflexes
Weapon Adept Bonus: Perfect Strike, Weapon focus (temple sword)
This build can be used to start alot of styles, but with the perception requirements waived, you can use the normal feat for Improved Blind Fight,
Ignoring all but total concealment.
Prerequisites: Perception 10 ranks, Blind-Fight.
Benefit: Your melee attacks ignore the miss chance
for less than total concealment. You may still reroll your
miss chance percentile roll for total concealment.
If you successfully pinpoint an invisible or hidden
attacker within 30 feet, that attacker gets no advantages
related to hitting you with ranged attacks. That is, you
don’t lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and the
attacker doesn’t get the usual +2 bonus for being invisible.
Special: The Improved Blind-Fight feat is of no use
against a character who is the subject of a blink spell.
Prerequisites: Perception 15 ranks, Improved Blind-
Fight.
Benefit: Your melee attacks ignore the miss chance
for less than total concealment, and you treat opponents
with total concealment as if they had normal concealment
(20% miss chance instead of 50%). You may still reroll a
miss chance percentile roll as normal.
If you successfully pinpoint an invisible or hidden
attacker, that attacker gets no advantages related to hitting
you with ranged attacks, regardless of the range. That is,
you don’t lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and the
attacker doesn’t get the usual +2 bonus for being invisible.
Special: The Greater Blind-Fight feat is of no use
against a character who is the subject of a blink spell.
I don't see why you can't use the Oracle. You could use your spells to boost your combat abilities. There is also no reason why you would have to have the blind-fight feats changed. You can still use Perception just not for sight. Since the feats are assuming that you can't see your opponent it seems like they are perfect choices for you.
If you take appropriate metamagic feats, you should be able to do just fine. You can also reinterpret the spells you are using. Read Magic doesn't have to be with sight. Maybe you can "feel" the magic as if you were reading a form of mystical braille.
People who are blind for a long time don't get free benefits (or rather, they shouldn't). They "adapt" by taking appropriate feats/skills (the APG blind-fight line and the Racial Heritage/Keen Scent feats along with Perception) and adopting appropriate mannerisms (like folding money and having round buttons on all your red clothes and square buttons on all your blue clothes).
Roleplayers playing a "blind swordsman" only to get something BETTER THAN SIGHT such as blindsight FOR FREE is a BIG pet peeve of mine.
If you're going to be blind. BE BLIND. Take the penalties like a man.
Temple Sword is a Monk Weapon, so it benefits from Perfect Strike. Perfect Strike specifies that it affects unarmed and all monk weapons.
People who are blind for a long time don't get free benefits (or rather, they shouldn't). They "adapt" by taking appropriate feats/skills (the APG blind-fight line and the Racial Heritage/Keen Scent feats along with Perception) and adopting appropriate mannerisms (like folding money and having round buttons on all your red clothes and square buttons on all your blue clothes).
Roleplayers playing a "blind swordsman" only to get something BETTER THAN SIGHT such as blindsight FOR FREE is a BIG pet peeve of mine.
If you're going to be blind. BE BLIND. Take the penalties like a man.
The only purpose of waiving the perception requirements is to allow the character concept to develop before 12th level. The game might not even go that high. The feats are by no means free, but now a fifth level character can give up his feats to become Zaitoichi
Ah. Had to reread it a few times.
Bob_Loblaw: Oracle is good, great self booster. Will consider.
Ravingdork: I understand the first part, but not the button thing. Plus, I wouldn't mind the penalties, since the feats get rid of them, and I would not need the scent ability since i can perceive with hearing and vibrations in the air. (It's real; deaf guy in culinary class. He feels vibrations before he's touched, so he can tell if someone is behind him. I'd think the same applies if one is blind). And also...I get blind fight for a feat. Why need blind sight if it only goes out 15 ft, when I can detect someone up to 60 ft with hearing?
I think it would be interesting if you did pick up the scent feat. Either go with half-orc or take the Racial Heritage feat to pick it up. Take Skill Focus: Perception and/or Alertness and you should be good to go.
Note that nothing will overcome being blind (except the spell remove blindness). The feats and abilities all you to overcome some of your penalties. You still can't see things that could be very important, like color or shape. You still won't be able to read since you can't see the paper. You will still have limitations and hopefully your DM will play this up a bit. Nothing drastic, but enough to remind you and the rest of the group that you are blind.
Yeah, of course. If I have read magic, it'll be flavored-texted so I can feel-read it. If I can't see something, then I cannot see it. Oh well. It'll still be a nice character concept.
It can be a lot of fun to play a blind character. I played one in a super hero game once. He had some issues when the news came on the TV. He couldn't follow the whole story if the newscasters didn't talk a lot. Breaking News was the worst for him since they don't have much information at that point. It was fun to have him react to how the group described what what going on.
The only purpose of waiving the perception requirements is to allow the character concept to develop before 12th level. The game might not even go that high. The feats are by no means free, but now a fifth level character can give up his feats to become Zaitoichi
Saying that a 5th-level character can be like Zaitoichi is an insult to Zaitoichi. Zaitoichi was much higher than 5th.
Romuken: Blind people feel the shape of the buttons on their clothes. The shapes correspond with colors. That way a blind person can match his clothes and look nice. If you do a bit of research, you will find that there are tons of neat little tricks that blind people use to get by in every day life--adapting after years of being blind.
What the book refers to is not a magical higher sense thing, but more of a learned skill thing.
Saying that a 5th-level character can be like Zaitoichi is an insult to Zaitoichi. Zaitoichi was much higher than 5th.
True, and on further perusal of the rulebooks, there is plenty to have a blind character who is still on par powerwise and fulfilling their character concept.
But the perception requirements do seem a little bit steep. Especially as many games never reach 15th level.
Oracle1/Barbarian2/RogueX.
Oracle gives you the blind mechanics, Barbarian gets you BAB and Uncanny Dodge to guard against ranged attacks as well as more HP, then Rogue stacks with Barbarian for UD and adds SA for when you're fighting enemies in pitch darkness.
You can't sneak attack a target with concealment.
You can't sneak attack a target with concealment.Oracle1/Barbarian2/RogueX.
Oracle gives you the blind mechanics, Barbarian gets you BAB and Uncanny Dodge to guard against ranged attacks as well as more HP, then Rogue stacks with Barbarian for UD and adds SA for when you're fighting enemies in pitch darkness.
With the better blind fight feats, or sniper's eye rogue talent you can.
You can't sneak attack a target with concealment.Oracle1/Barbarian2/RogueX.
Oracle gives you the blind mechanics, Barbarian gets you BAB and Uncanny Dodge to guard against ranged attacks as well as more HP, then Rogue stacks with Barbarian for UD and adds SA for when you're fighting enemies in pitch darkness.
What about the Shadow Strike feat?
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New Feat:
Humanoid Echolocation
Prerequisites: Blind, Blind-Fighting
You gain blindsense out to 30 feet. This means you are capable of pinpointing the location of creatures within 30 feet of you, regardless of light or lighting conditions, even though you cannot see them. This ability no longer functions if you are deafened.
There are a few humans in real life who have figured out how to do this, and there is at least one such human who plays basketball and rides a bicycle, despite his blindness. I figure it shouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for a blind swordsman hero.
With the better blind fight feats, or sniper's eye rogue talent you can.You can't sneak attack a target with concealment.Oracle1/Barbarian2/RogueX.
Oracle gives you the blind mechanics, Barbarian gets you BAB and Uncanny Dodge to guard against ranged attacks as well as more HP, then Rogue stacks with Barbarian for UD and adds SA for when you're fighting enemies in pitch darkness.
No Blind-Fight feat in the chain makes "total concealment" "no concealment at all." Neither does Sniper's Eye let you attack something with total concealment. You might be able to pull it off at level 15.
What about the Shadow Strike feat?You can't sneak attack a target with concealment.Oracle1/Barbarian2/RogueX.
Oracle gives you the blind mechanics, Barbarian gets you BAB and Uncanny Dodge to guard against ranged attacks as well as more HP, then Rogue stacks with Barbarian for UD and adds SA for when you're fighting enemies in pitch darkness.
I'm only emphasizing this for everyone's benefit.
NONONE of those abilities overcome TOTAL concealment which you would have if you were BLIND. If you get Greater Blind-fight at level 15, THEN you can use all that crap. Level 15
I'm only emphasizing this for everyone's benefit.
NONONE of those abilities overcome TOTAL concealment which you would have if you were BLIND. If you get Greater Blind-fight at level 15, THEN you can use all that crap. Level 15
That's more like a Zatoichi level! :D
Be level 15 with all the appropriate feats and (non-free) abilities and go around kicking around 5th-level henchmen like they're nothing, working your way up to the 10th-level boss. That's how Zatoichi did it. Doesn't sound exciting or fair? He had a good press agent. :P
That's more like a Zaitoichi level! :DI'm only emphasizing this for everyone's benefit.
NONONE of those abilities overcome TOTAL concealment which you would have if you were BLIND. If you get Greater Blind-fight at level 15, THEN you can use all that crap. Level 15
Even better, just ask a 13th level Wizard to grant you Blindsight with Limited Wish.
Even better, just ask a 13th level Wizard to grant you Blindsight with Limited Wish.That's more like a Zaitoichi level! :DI'm only emphasizing this for everyone's benefit.
NONONE of those abilities overcome TOTAL concealment which you would have if you were BLIND. If you get Greater Blind-fight at level 15, THEN you can use all that crap. Level 15
Or get a 5th-level cleric to cast remove blindness. Seriously though, how do you explain not doing that?
In any case, I don't think many GMs would go for limited wish granting blindsight. A magic item that granted blindsight would be worth 100,000gp at least, if not be artifact level status. Getting it via limited wish (which means it can't even be destroyed or stolen like an item can) for only 1500gp is not at all balanced.
Or get a 5th-level cleric to cast remove blindness. Seriously though, how do you explain not doing that?Even better, just ask a 13th level Wizard to grant you Blindsight with Limited Wish.That's more like a Zaitoichi level! :DI'm only emphasizing this for everyone's benefit.
NONONE of those abilities overcome TOTAL concealment which you would have if you were BLIND. If you get Greater Blind-fight at level 15, THEN you can use all that crap. Level 15
If you are going to do that, just don't be blind.
In any case, I don't think many GMs would go for limited wish granting blindsight. A magic item that granted blindsight would be worth 100,000gp at least, if not be artifact level status. Getting it via limited wish (which means it can't even be destroyed or stolen like an item can) for only 1500gp is not at all balanced.
Lolwhat? A ring that gives you wishes doesn't cost 100k. A magic item that gives you an inherent +5 increase to any ability score costs ~130k. Goggles of Darkvision are 12k. So is a continual blur (ie, concealment).
Blindsight would be what? A 25k item?
Even better, just ask a 13th level Wizard to grant you Blindsight with Limited Wish.That's more like a Zaitoichi level! :DI'm only emphasizing this for everyone's benefit.
NONONE of those abilities overcome TOTAL concealment which you would have if you were BLIND. If you get Greater Blind-fight at level 15, THEN you can use all that crap. Level 15
Or get a 5th-level cleric to cast remove blindness. Seriously though, how do you explain not doing that?
In any case, I don't think many GMs would go for limited wish granting blindsight. A magic item that granted blindsight would be worth 100,000gp at least, if not be artifact level status. Getting it via limited wish (which means it can't even be destroyed or stolen like an item can) for only 1500gp is not at all balanced.
If you are playing an oracle, you cannot remove the clouded vision curse without the help of a deity. Paltry 9th level spells will not be good enough.
I wouldn't allow blind sight to be granted with a limited wish but I would with a wish or miracle. It's a class ability at 13th level for a barbarian and 15th level for an oracle. The highest level spell a 13th level character can cast is 7th. Limited wish cannot duplicate a 7th level spell but wish can. It's not superb logic on my part but it feels consistent.
What about the Shadow Strike feat?You can't sneak attack a target with concealment.Oracle1/Barbarian2/RogueX.
Oracle gives you the blind mechanics, Barbarian gets you BAB and Uncanny Dodge to guard against ranged attacks as well as more HP, then Rogue stacks with Barbarian for UD and adds SA for when you're fighting enemies in pitch darkness.
I'm only emphasizing this for everyone's benefit.
NONONE of those abilities overcome TOTAL concealment which you would have if you were BLIND. If you get Greater Blind-fight at level 15, THEN you can use all that crap. Level 15
That's not what you said though. You simply said concealment and that part isn't completely true. That being said, I wouldn't make a blind rogue. It's too much work to be able to sneak attack and even then it can only be done at 15th level. I don't want to wait that long to be able to use a class ability I get at 1st level.
I played a blind fighter once in 3e, mostly to screw with my DM.
DM "Everyone make a spot check."
Me "14, what do I see?"
DM "Shut up."
I can relate.
But Back to the real issue at hand, regardless of how your character is blind, what are you going to do now, at second level. The barbarian is gonna just be stepping on the toes of your other party barbarian until level 16 when it finally gets around to fulfilling your character concept.
As an aside Temple Sword is also a trip weapon, if you were to head up that feat chain. (Yeah I suppose I've become a bit enamored with that Weapon Adept build)
The Blind fight chain does not really need to be altered as the 1st blind fight gives you the most important ability. Improved only really give the bonus vs ranged, and deflect arrows can cover that.
Take Blind Fight, Perfect Strike and Second Chance, there will be no reason to miss with that many re-rolls. Uses per day not withstanding.
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You can't sneak attack a target with concealment.Oracle1/Barbarian2/RogueX.
Oracle gives you the blind mechanics, Barbarian gets you BAB and Uncanny Dodge to guard against ranged attacks as well as more HP, then Rogue stacks with Barbarian for UD and adds SA for when you're fighting enemies in pitch darkness.
Good thing the Clouded Vision Oracle gets darkvision 30ft then isn't it?
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You can't sneak attack a target with concealment.Good thing the Clouded Vision Oracle gets darkvision 30ft then isn't it?
This. If we're talking Oracle, we're not talking about a character who's mechanically blind. We're talking about Daredevil/Zaitochi style "blind fighting" that is mechanically represented by being able to see...within a certain radius, anyway.
Not that it'll help much if you're going strictly from an RP standpoint but the Magic Item Compendium for 3.5 had the Blindfold of True Darkness (page 75).
Blindsight 30 for 9,000. Granted in a normal game it is a blindfold so it made you blind otherwise.
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Or get a 5th-level cleric to cast remove blindness. Seriously though, how do you explain not doing that?
As far as I can tell that spell restores vision, so if the character was born blind that wouldn't help. That or the character could actually be missing their eyes or have their eyes heavily damaged and scarred, you need regeneration to recover from that kind of damage.
Personally,as a GM, I'd allow a flaw/trait combo of blind, but blindsense 5ft. Maybe make it a fighting stance kind of thing?
You can effectively fight against foes who are adjacent to you but no-one else. It still doesn't help with the character falling all over the place in rough terrain, dealing with stairs and the like.
I suppose using a scabbarded sword as a kind of cane.
Otherwise a level dip into Oracle is probably your best bet, or as someone suggested, just fluff it.
Of course maybe your charcater thinks he's blind but he's acutally not thus. Its a mental illness but beucase his eyes still work his subconcious brain can react as if he could see so avoid danger, so hitting somone in melee is at no peanlaty. however his concious mind is blind so you can RP the blindness.
The Battle Oracle makes a pretty good fighter if you check out some of the mysteries.
I mean strong will saves the bane of any fighter, cast heal spells as a swift so it dosen't interupt your sword attacks, DR10 in a pinch, greater weapon focus.
If you dont want the slew of spells as has been said a level dip in oracle would also work beucase the curse will progress at 1/2 level in non orcale classes which means your be effective oracle level 10 by 19th level which gives you blindsense.
the real issue with real blindness is the 50% miss chance for concealment.
There another option but I cant make a decent build out of it but wiz/sorc4 or witch3 can get share senses and can take improved familairs with blindsense and blindsight so you could be a blind sword fighter who relies on sharing a familiars senses to see. Like watching yourself in the 3rd person.
In fact if you talked with your GM they might even allow a fighter to have a familiar since its of little benefit to a fighter since you have no spells and as long as you just use it for sight and no much else at least until 7th level when you have taken leadership and gotten a critter with all its benefits.
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I play an Oracle of Battle and have the clouded vision option. It does allow you to see with darkvision up to 60ft with levels. For flavor reasons, I explain this "sight" as a thermal reading. Sort of an, "I know you're there cause you're warm." thing. Smell would work well too.
I am playing an avatar of Hod (Norse God - he was blind). I wield a greatsword and wear a breatplate. I'm level 8 and currently have AC 21 and have a +13 to hit and do 2D6+11 damage. I am almost on par with the party fighter, and the RP value is so much fun.
It does suck when someone shoots an arrow at me but thats why Oracles can heal and I hide behind a big tower shield when I can't see anyone to fight.
I figure if you were a Human Oracle of Battle you could pick up a breastplate, or half-plate for a more Japanese armor feel. Then grab an Elven Curve blade or use a bastard sword in two hands as a martial weapon to get your Katana.
On a brief side note, when I fully buff myself with spells and use enlarge person, I outshine our party fight by a fairly large margin. That said, I think this is probably your best bet for what you're going for while keeping you a viable and contributing player to the party.
But the concept is not a blind caster, its a blind swordsman. Casting is wasted class features. The 50% miss can be overcome by feats and they will even give a bit of bonuses on the side eventualy. Then the class features can actually boost the swordfighting.
But lets ask directly: romuken, do you want to use caster levels?
But the concept is not a blind caster, its a blind swordsman. Casting is wasted class features.Reflavor the spells as sword techniques or mental focusing. Problem solved.
"I can set stuff on fire.. with my mind!"
"I can set stuff on fire.. with my mind!"But the concept is not a blind caster, its a blind swordsman. Casting is wasted class features.Reflavor the spells as sword techniques or mental focusing. Problem solved.
"Also, I can kill you with my brain."
Reflavor the spells as sword techniques or mental focusing. Problem solved.
I suppose. Normally I'm all in favor of refluffing to taste, but in this case casting just doesn't feel right for some reason. Maybe its the difference in BAB, different Saves, and different hit dice.
But I suppose I just think that there have been plenty of good concepts posted that play the blind swordsmen strait as an arrow as well as a few not yet examined, like strait fighter. I'd love to see the fighting types get their crack at this one.
...I mean, I did make a healing oracle, but he kept asking why I chose an oracle if I got a penalty. I said flavor text, he said that's stupid. I just want a blind swordsman to show him that it's fun to flavor text things, and to go out of the box rather than your usual sword-n-board...
Simply put, I'm teaching my DM about flavor text.
...I would still like to have a full-on melee.
I believe you just answered my question right there.
The best adivece I can give you is to take your concept and run with it. You're out to prove that storytelling is just as important as mechanics and I heartily approve. So I recommend that you go full melee class and neither ask for nor accept a bonus in exchange for your character's blindness. While the oracle exchanges a penalty for a bonus, the blindness in a melee class will be all by choice. Your character will function awesomely and flavorfully and will work RAW, owing no debt to houseruling.
To top it off, play to your characters strenghts, taking dousing lights, fighting in fog and generally dancing over your light dependent foes.
If that does not show how flavor text can work, I am not sure what will.
To that end, my suggestions are:
Race: Human Youre going to lose the visions anyway and the feat can go to Blind-Fight
Class: Weapon Adept Monk- Perfect strike, ect. also considered a style over subbstance class so prove the power of flavor text here too.
The Good Feats:
The Blind-Fight Chain, obviously.
Perfect Strike: to reroll more misses from blindness
Second Chance and Improved Second Chance: more rerolls, synergises with Flurry.
Skill focus(Perception), or Alertness: to locate the square the enemys are in.
At first level your human and first level feats should be Blind-Fight and skill focus or Alertness. That sets up your combat effectiveness early.
Other possible goodies
Improved Trip Line: Maybe, Temple sword is a Trip Weapon
Combat Reflexes, Combat patrol: AOO's are one attack, and your rerolls can make that one attack sure to land
Furious focus: If you can swing it, more one hit focuses goodness.
Spider step, sidestep, Cloud step: Not necessary in any way, but cool tricks
Critical feats are possibly an option w/ 19-20 crit range. then, tripping strike.
improved initiative, ect.- Usual melee goodies
This thread has inspired me. Im gonna try making a blind swordsman next game I'm in.
The superstitious barbarian eventually gets blind sight too, and he has scent after level 7.
Half orcs can get scent as well which can help you target the right square.
the build would suck but a blind witch using a ...blade ;) who uses Hag's Eye and Share senses with her familiar to see would be fun, you could even use twilight knife to augment your blade attacks