Yes, there is no Martial Bastard sword proficiency. If you know how to use it you can use it one or two handed.
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Two playtest classes, Samurai and Ninja list proficiency with katana (as Bastard Sword). Does this proficiency mean they can wield the sword one-handed?
According to the description of the bastard sword, it is a two-handed martial weapon by default that can be used one-handed if you spend a feat on exotic training.
This is actually a really good question. The playtest description doesn't say what level of proficiency the class gets in the bastard sword. I think it is reasonable to assume that it is martial weapon proficiency (two-handed), otherwise the class is effectively getting a free feat.
There are a couple weapons (bastard sword, sawtooth saber) that function differently depending on your level of proficiency and this playtest is the first time a class specifically lists them as proficiencies. So it might be a good idea to include a little more detail in either in the class description or a sidebar to avoid confusion.
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I am pretty sure that, if a class mentions it by name, you get full proficiency.
The monk, oracle, rogue and bard are the only other classes that list out proficiency in specific exotic weapons.
The bard gets proficiency in the whip.
The oracle gets proficiency in the repeating crossbow.
The rogue gets proficiency in the hand crossbow.
The monk gets proficiency in the kama, nunchaku, sai, & siangham.
The problem is that all of those weapons function the same way regardless of what sort of proficiencies you have. The only thing at stake is a -4 penalty for non-proficient use.
The bastard sword is a two-handed martial weapon/one-handed exotic weapon. The sawtooth saber is a one-handed martial/light exotic weapon.
So a fighter can pick up a bastard sword and use it as a slightly sub-standard greatsword, or use a sawtooth saber in place of a longsword. But if that fighter spends a feat on exotic weapon proficiency the weapon in question gets better. The bastard sword becomes a superior long-sword and the sawtooth saber can be used effectively in a grapple or used easily as an off-hand weapon. You gain a clear benefit at the cost of a feat.
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The playtest description doesn't say what level of proficiency the class gets in the bastard sword. I think it is reasonable to assume that it is martial weapon proficiency (two-handed), otherwise the class is effectively getting a free feat.
The samurai is proficient with martial weapons. If all he can do is use the katana as a martial weapon, this part of his class ability is completely redundant.
Fighters, rangers, paladins, and barbarians might disagree.
They can disagree all they like, there still is no such proficiency. The sword counts as a martial weapon for two handed usage, which is a property of the weapon.
If you are trained in the weapons use you may use it one or two handed, if you are not trained in its use but can use Martial weapons then you may use it as one, two handed only.
So yes if you know how to use all Martial weapons it may then be used two handed only. That does not make it a Martial weapon.
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The samurai is proficient with martial weapons. If all he can do is use the katana as a martial weapon, this part of his class ability is completely redundant.
+1...The Samurai Weapon Proficiency states, "Samurai are proficient
with all simple and martial weapons, plus the katana, naginata, and wakizashi."Why list katana a second time if the proficiency with it was already covered by "martial?" It is pretty clear that the RAI is that they get the exotic level of proficiency. Since the material is still unpublished at this time, perhaps the language will be made more clear when the book is released, but I don't think it is necessary.
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This discussion is exactly the reason for my original post. I can only see the stating of "proficiency: bastard sword" to mean the character can use it one-handed. I can certainly see the Samurai having the proficiency, but it is, as pointed out, a bonus Feat. For the Ninja, however, it is giving a rogue-build a supreme weapon.
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Please refer to this post to help answer question for this issue.
Nothing in that post, in my view, is relevant as it is all considering someone who is not already proficient.
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Nothing in that post, in my view, is relevant as it is all considering someone who is not already proficient.
If you took the time to read the original post and most of the thread, you would see that JJ confirms that in order for you to wield a bastard sword 1-handed as an exotic weapon, you need proficiency. If you aren't, you can two-hand it to make it a martial weapon.
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Nothing in that post, in my view, is relevant as it is all considering someone who is not already proficient.If you took the time to read the original post and most of the thread, you would see that JJ confirms that in order for you to wield a bastard sword 1-handed as an exotic weapon, you need proficiency. If you aren't, you can two-hand it to make it a martial weapon.
Which solves the problem, since both Ninja and Samurai are Proficient in Katana, which for the Play test is Bastard Sword...
Which we already knew..
What is the problem here again?
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The samurai is proficient with martial weapons. If all he can do is use the katana as a martial weapon, this part of his class ability is completely redundant.+1...The Samurai Weapon Proficiency states, "Samurai are proficient
with all simple and martial weapons, plus the katana, naginata, and wakizashi."
Why list katana a second time if the proficiency with it was already covered by "martial?" It is pretty clear that the RAI is that they get the exotic level of proficiency. Since the material is still unpublished at this time, perhaps the language will be made more clear when the book is released, but I don't think it is necessary.
The wakizashi is being treated as a short sword for the playtest, but it is specifically listed out in the description even though it is also covered by the martial weapon proficiency.
My guess is that the katana, naginata, and wakizashi will be "exotic" weapons in the same way that the nunchaku and other monk weapons are exotic. Not because they are specifically "better" but because they are literally "exotic." So giving specific proficiencies would make sense because they wouldn't be covered by the "all simple & martial weapons" bit.
Or it could be an oversight. This IS the playtest round. Oversights happen. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what the final write-up for the katana is.
I just hope Paizo re-examines the whole simple/martial/exotic weapon thing. Exotic weapons have always been a bit ... iffy.
Heeeey!!!
i have a special rule for my campaign, there is not a exotic weapon, or armor prof. as a feat. but they can take those with skills.
simple weapons are proficient every class
martial weapon cost 1 skill point
exotic weapon cost 2 skill point
armor are th same, only in size
if youre proficient with one kind of, the next cost you 1 skill point
and if youre not proficient with none
light 1 skill point
medium 2
heavy 3
every armor and weapon are diferent, a bastard is not a katana
are compared only for reference,
but exotic weapon proficiency katana, and exotic wepon proficiency bastard
i think
Nunchaku is nothing but an anemic flail. Requiring an EWP to wield one is ridiculous.
Ah, just the post I was looking for. I was just considering having my Samurai wield a large katana. Since he spends most fights enlarged that 3d8 damage would be nice.