We complain all the freaking time when a government just does what a special interest wants it to. Here, a special interest cut a deal with the beneficiaries of their campaign donors, and the state couldn't afford it. So the new administration campaigns on it, promises to do this very thing, and wins the election, and STILL we seem to not want the special interest kicked out of the government. Baffling.
Really? Do what I do: Every time you see "special interest," add "...other than my own" at the end. That clears things right up.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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The Law of Averages says it's you Sebastian.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for myself, I don't care what the political alignment is of the people skipping out of their job. I think they should work within the system they have. It is not like any thing that is passed can't later be changed or ruled unconstitutional. There is no permanency in politics.I agree with pres man?!?!?! In a politics thread?!?!?!
One of us must have done something wrong. Based on prior interactions, I can only assume it is you.
What about that time I predicted that 4e would be an awesome success. I was right then!
And the time I said nobody could ever step in and replace 3.5? See, I was correct that time too.
And then there was...wait...which universe am I in again?
Ah, that explains it. You're confusing me with Sebastian 616. I'm Sebastian Prime. We both originate from different universes, which is how we manage to always be correct no matter what happens.
Yeah...that's my explanation...
The Law of Averages says it's you Sebastian.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for myself, I don't care what the political alignment is of the people skipping out of their job. I think they should work within the system they have. It is not like any thing that is passed can't later be changed or ruled unconstitutional. There is no permanency in politics.I agree with pres man?!?!?! In a politics thread?!?!?!
One of us must have done something wrong. Based on prior interactions, I can only assume it is you.
What about that time I predicted that 4e would be an awesome success. I was right then!
And the time I said nobody could ever step in and replace 3.5? See, I was correct that time too.
And then there was...wait...which universe am I in again?
Ah, that explains it. You're confusing me with Sebastian 616. I'm Sebastian Prime. We both originate from different universes, which is how we manage to always be correct no matter what happens.
Yeah...that's my explanation...
Yeah, Sebastian Prime trotted up the rainbow bridge into the sun and absorbed it, all the while screaming "Taste the rainbow, B@#$%!" and mastering a green lantern ring. Sebastian Prime will never be wrong again.
There are videos somewhere on the interwebs that prove Obama is a Muslim!
I found the phone call. It makes me more impressed with Walker, and it seems clear he's acting based on principle and a knowledge of how things are in the capitol.
You might choose to believe otherwise, but there is not an ounce of "let's jsut screw the little guy here".
Here's the call. The article does serve as a great example of how journalists like Calderone color a story with their own opinion, and often bury the truth of the story in the last paragraph, hoping readiners will get through the headline and a few damning paragraphs before going on to watch "Charlie the Unicorn".
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thecutline/20110223/ts_yblog_thecutline/wisco nsin-governor-pranked-by-buffalo-journalist
We complain all the freaking time when a government just does what a special interest wants it to. Here, a special interest cut a deal with the beneficiaries of their campaign donors, and the state couldn't afford it. So the new administration campaigns on it, promises to do this very thing, and wins the election, and STILL we seem to not want the special interest kicked out of the government. Baffling.Really? Do what I do: Every time you see "special interest," add "...other than my own" at the end. That clears things right up.
But that's my point: here is a clear example of the behavior we all say we want to see come to an end, and we split up along party/ideological lines to defend a special interest group, no amtter how egregious.
Of course, that's a hard call to amke at the lay level. If I were center-left and I were pro-choice (suspend disbelief with me), maybe donations from NOW or whatever would strike me as democracy in action, while I viewed donations from religious group to my opponent as him being purchased by religious nuts.
But in this case, the state can't afford the deal they have, and the guy was elected exactly to make the decisions he is making now. There's not really a better example of a union holding people hostage because it got a sweetheart deal from the last politician. unless you count Hoffa as 'being held hostage'.
Celestial Healer: Oh, yeah, I see it now. You may ignore my question.
On the upside, I didn't post my insult of Rick Perry.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Yeah, Sebastian Prime trotted up the rainbow bridge into the sun and absorbed it, all the while screaming "Taste the rainbow, B@#$%!" and mastering a green lantern ring. Sebastian Prime will never be wrong again.
Any interest in being a publicist? I'd like to put out a press release with this statement.
Yeah, Sebastian Prime trotted up the rainbow bridge into the sun and absorbed it, all the while screaming "Taste the rainbow, B@#$%!" and mastering a green lantern ring. Sebastian Prime will never be wrong again.Any interest in being a publicist? I'd like to put out a press release with this statement.
I'll be your huckleberry.
Yeah, Sebastian Prime trotted up the rainbow bridge into the sun and absorbed it, all the while screaming "Taste the rainbow, B@#$%!" and mastering a green lantern ring. Sebastian Prime will never be wrong again.Any interest in being a publicist? I'd like to put out a press release with this statement.
What happened to that new guy I hired to keep you groomed? What was his name? Gruuuu? Dude needs to take another crack at your tail and hindquarters.
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What happened to that new guy I hired to keep you groomed? What was his name? Gruuuu? Dude needs to take another crack at your tail and hindquarters.Yeah, Sebastian Prime trotted up the rainbow bridge into the sun and absorbed it, all the while screaming "Taste the rainbow, B@#$%!" and mastering a green lantern ring. Sebastian Prime will never be wrong again.Any interest in being a publicist? I'd like to put out a press release with this statement.
We're not taking comments about that right now... gruu left Sebastian's Horsey Innovations Team over artistic differences.
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Reporting for duty, my many-hued equestrian overlord!Good work publicist!
Haters gonna hate indeed, sir.
But that's my point: here is a clear example of the behavior we all say we want to see come to an end, and we split up along party/ideological lines to defend a special interest group, no amtter how egregious.
Of course, that's a hard call to amke at the lay level. If I were center-left and I were pro-choice (suspend disbelief with me), maybe donations from NOW or whatever would strike me as democracy in action, while I viewed donations from religious group to my opponent as him being purchased by religious nuts.
But in this case, the state can't afford the deal they have, and the guy was elected exactly to make the decisions he is making now. There's not really a better example of a union holding people hostage because it got a sweetheart deal from the last politician. unless you count Hoffa as 'being held hostage'.
Complete rathole: Are you dyslexic? I'm curious because you seem to interpose pairs of letters, but your typing seems otherwise fine. Personally, I often type entire wrong words "the" instead of "there."
I found the phone call. It makes me more impressed with Walker, and it seems clear he's acting based on principle and a knowledge of how things are in the capitol.
You might choose to believe otherwise, but there is not an ounce of "let's jsut screw the little guy here".
Here's the call. The article does serve as a great example of how journalists like Calderone color a story with their own opinion, and often bury the truth of the story in the last paragraph, hoping readiners will get through the headline and a few damning paragraphs before going on to watch "Charlie the Unicorn".
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thecutline/20110223/ts_yblog_thecutline/wisco nsin-governor-pranked-by-buffalo-journalist
That URL isn't working for me. Can you double-check it? I'd like to read the article.
What happened to that new guy I hired to keep you groomed? What was his name? Gruuuu? Dude needs to take another crack at your tail and hindquarters.Yeah, Sebastian Prime trotted up the rainbow bridge into the sun and absorbed it, all the while screaming "Taste the rainbow, B@#$%!" and mastering a green lantern ring. Sebastian Prime will never be wrong again.Any interest in being a publicist? I'd like to put out a press release with this statement.We're not taking comments about that right now... gruu left Sebastian's Horsey Innovations Team over artistic differences.
He was *my* Henchman! Did you guys even make a morale check for him? Dammit! Do I have to do everything myself? ::Gets out six dice::
Edit: See, no problem. He probably just wandered off and will be back later. Just leave him written instructions specifying cleaning, wirebrush, etc.
RPG Superstar 2013
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Complete rathole: Are you dyslexic? I'm curious because you seem to interpose pairs of letters, but your typing seems otherwise fine. Personally, I often type entire wrong words "the" instead of "there."
I am an awful typist, I type pretty quickly for three fingers, and I have a very suspect, very ghetto keyboard. Also, my fingertips are large enough that my instrument of choice became bass instead of guitar.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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What happened to that new guy I hired to keep you groomed? What was his name? Gruuuu? Dude needs to take another crack at your tail and hindquarters.Yeah, Sebastian Prime trotted up the rainbow bridge into the sun and absorbed it, all the while screaming "Taste the rainbow, B@#$%!" and mastering a green lantern ring. Sebastian Prime will never be wrong again.Any interest in being a publicist? I'd like to put out a press release with this statement.We're not taking comments about that right now... gruu left Sebastian's Horsey Innovations Team over artistic differences.
I'm going to refer all future questions to my publicist, but, for the record, when an employee says they will use a mixture that is 2 parts KY jelly, 1 part tabasco sauce, and that such mixture will be lathered heavily on such employee, and performs the job completely dry instead, well, he's lucky he got out alive.
The cardboard tube he used didn't help either.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thecutline/20110223/ts_yblog_thecutline/wisco nsin-governor-pranked-by-buffalo-journalist
Just read it -- it seems like a non-story to me.
Take any position, any job, which is run by unionised and non unionised employees. The latter group will be inferior in every way to pay and benefits received. Collective bargaining power is the only leverage that can be employed against employer abuse. Without that, you don't have a union, you have a discussion hall that acheives nothing.I'm of the mind that while Unions served a purpose at one time, they are no longer necessary. All I've seen them do, in my experiences, is prevent people that can do a job better than the worker's with seniority from moving up and protect the people that abuse the so-called protections set-up by Unions.
No one forces people to work anywhere. Maybe if half the staff leaves to work for a competitor with better pay, they'd get the idea.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thecutline/20110223/ts_yblog_thecutline/wisco nsin-governor-pranked-by-buffalo-journalistJust read it -- it seems like a non-story to me.
For scoring "points" there isn't anything there really.
One interesting part (for me at least) is the proceedural advice / strategy they are intending to pursue with regards to quorum, and pay and the like. That sort of rule lawyering / scheming seemed very gamerish to me. Maybe I've been warped by years of rpgs and law school.
Another audio non-story:The Dropkick Murphys have released a track in support of the strikers. http://www.dropkickmurphys.com/news
Haven't listened to them since high school.
No one forces people to work anywhere. Maybe if half the staff leaves to work for a competitor with better pay, they'd get the idea.
You imply there is negative unemplyment, and that people are lining up at everyone's door offering jobs. Sadly, that is not the case. The exact opposite is more often true, especially for specialized jobs for which there might be 300+ applicants per open position.
In other words, maybe if half the staff quits en masse to find work with this phantom competetor, they starve to death looking for this "better job," and their families go without health care. Or were you going to offer them all welfare and free no-rejection health insurance?
Unions can have quality people too.
CUrrent example: Boeing. Boeing has long loathed its unions...very powerful, very well paid.
HIGHLY skilled.
So what did they do? They outsourced the Dreamliner instead of making it on site. It was a blatant attempt to break the power of the unions, by using non-union workers and becoming a GM-esque 'assembly only' operation.
Guess what? Parts quality and supply is so horrible the Dreamliner is now TWO YEARS behind schedule. Also guess what? Those incredibly skilled union people NEEDED for the job...are retiring and leaving Boeing! Instead of cultivating their workforce, they are suffering brain drain and desertion.
Back in my home town, the city council loved using non-Union labor. Every time they did...huge cost overruns as the non-Union folk did the job 'cheap' in every sense of the word, and they had to bring in the union to fix up the botched job.
The reason you work in a clean, well-lit workplace is because of unions.
The reason you have health insurance is because of unions.
The reasons kids don't start working at 4 years old is because of unions.
The reason mothers get maternity leave is because of unions.
The reason a single manager with an axe to grind does not hold your job and livelihood in the palm of his hand is because of unions.
I'm sure any Teacher would be HAPPY to be paid like a babysitter. At 30 students a classroom, 3$ an hour per kid, they'd be RAKING it in...and have NO obligation to teach them a damn thing, and they could FIRE the kids for being disruptive! WOOT!
In other words, go look at the cost for Day Care, multiply accordingly, and teachers are HUGELY underpaid, and they can't fire their students, so why should you be able to fire them so easily? Teachers and students have ALWAYS been the catalyst for new ideas, and tenure is something that goes back centuries for a damn good reason...just because an idea is unpopular with the person in charge doesn't mean it's not RIGHT. Without tenure and unions, there would never, ever be change against wrongs. What would you think if speaking out about civil rights immediately got you fired? Equality for women? Working in a job that wouldn't get your fingers cut off, or lungs black with pollution? Yet that's EXACTLY what businesses did, before unions.
Twenty years ago, there was a big push to start trying to get engineers and docters and the like back into classrooms, to teach the kids 'useful' skills from those who succeeded out there in the real world.
Guess what? I'm sure you know...doctors and engineers sucked at being teachers, couldn't handle the workload and stress, and most definitely didn't like the pay. You know that an adjunct professor at the college level, brought in to teach the lesser classes and keep costs down, usually gets paid about the equivalent of minimum wage? These are people with Masters giving real life experience in the classes they teach.
Minimum wage. I know, I was one of them!
Also, all this 'merit' nonsense is just that...nonsense. Who decides 'merit'? Guess what...it becomes politics. Playing favorites. Juicing the system and pandering to the scale...just like this whole 'no child left behind' crap that is making teachers teach to a test so they get their funding. Seniority is something you cannot argue against, and it doesn't game the system. 'Merit' creates a salesman-intense competitive environment between teachers, which is NOT good for the students. While it's nice to be able to rank and reward good teachers (and many teachers love the recognition) making that the BASIS of teaching will just cripple the system.
Nobody who has been a teacher will ever say teachers are paid too much. As noted, you could make more money in daycare, and be able to fire your inept students.
As for 'non-public' schools performing better, that's also a hogwash stat. What happens is charter schools actively recruit the wealthier and smarter students, and so 'inflate' their scores. Put those kids back in public schools and guess what? They perform just as well. Charter schools don't get any better results then most public schools. They ARE more exclusive.
Lasseiz-faire government does not work. Wall Street today should be screaming that at you. Wall Street sucks up money like a vacuum and the government does NOTHING to stop it, because the overseeing agencies don't have the funding to do so. When government does nothing, business goes NUTS. It takes advantage of people, the environment, bends and breaks laws, corrupts everything around it. This is a proven fact. THe 'robber barons' were AMERICAN, and they lived in an edge where money got away with anything. The job of government is to tell business owners what they cannot do, because if you leave it to them, they will most definitely abuse anything and everything in pursuit of the almighty dollar.
As for Glenn Beck...sorry, he's a two-faced idiot. He was all about saying how we should balance the budget and raise taxes and do our civic duty...up until OBama got into office. Then he immediately started ranting on doing the exact opposite thing...because it sells. I refuse to give any credibility to a man who'll spew whatever sells ratings. He doesn't spout true things...he spouts controversial things, and could not care if they are true or not, as long as he gets publicity, and the $$$ that flow from it.
80% of the real growth of this country over the last decade went into the pockets of the top 1% of our people.
1%. Average income, about $1.3 mil.
Makes me think that government by far is not doing enough.
Voting on union membership is fine. But making people write out separate checks for the dues? No. That's a knife in the throat, because it takes the convenience out of the process, and encourages freeloading. Like anything else, a union requires money. Without funding, even the best union will simply shrivel up and die, and no volunteers can make up for it. It's an old, old tactic that is being proposed because it is a known union-killing technique.
Governments should support unions because unions are the common man, and businesses can, will, and do walk all over the common man whenever they get the chance...it is a proven historical fact, and as true now as it was a century ago.
To fight the FInancial Reform ACt, Wall street mobilized over 2100 lobbyists and spent over $150 million. Just THINK about that. They were willing to spend $150 million to stop any tinkering with the system they dominate so thoroughly, because they knew they'd make it up.
Goldman Sachs spent more on technology last year then the entire budget of the SEC, the organization tasked with overseeing it.
You have a strong government, because loose government led to 2008, and Wall Street is trying damn hard to keep that world to themselves, and not see it torn down around them. IT was the repeal of Glass-Steagal, ONE LAW, which led to 2008.
Laws are a defense against the predation of those seeking wealth and not bound by morals, and that's the business mindset when not constrained by law.
===Aelryinth
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RPG Superstar 2013
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The reason you work in a clean, well-lit workplace is because of unions.
The reason you have health insurance is because of unions.
The reasons kids don't start working at 4 years old is because of unions.
The reason mothers get maternity leave is because of unions.
The reason a single manager with an axe to grind does not hold your job and livelihood in the palm of his hand is because of unions.
With respect, I think there is more rhetoric than fact in your beliefs about unions. First, the common assumption is that employers would be eating the jelly out of our eyes if it weren't for decent people, found only in unions. But that simply isn't true. The first unions organized to protest abuse, but they were an exception, not a rule. The power inherent in leading organized labor is what made them popular - telling your boss where to stick it is anawfully god gig when you can get it.
There's no evidence to suggest that we'd all be dirty and poor and singing "Where there's a whip, there's a way" if it weren't for labor unions. Like as not, when you're studying industrial age abuses in meatpacking plants, you're also studying yellow journalism, which is where an American press started to shape news rather than report it. And businesses are an easy target. Everyone, to some degree or another, likes to complain about the haves or about the boss. But the assertion that some or maybe even most bosses wouldn't treat their people with respect and rewards them honestly if it weren't for unions is absurd. Many Japanese manufacturers who don't allow union talk in the States pay their people well. No one is abused. I've only been abused by a boss when I let it happen. There's no such thing as a restaurant franchise manager's union - you either do the job and get rewarded, or you get fired for sucking (or perceived sucking) or you move on.
Health insurance for families was a way to get around locked wages during WW2. The govenrment didn't want this fluid environment in a marketplace starving for workers, so wages were freezed. Health insurance became an enticement to stay at one place or leave another. Unions had not one thing to do with the inception of health insurance.
Of course, you must also look at the other side of the coin:
The reason your wages are pinned down and raises come less often than they did for your parents is becase of unions.
The reason your health insurance changes in premium or insuring company so often is because of unions.
The reason your jack bag manager won't be fired by his boss is he just blames unions, and your boss doesn't want to be in that fight.
The reason your nonunion shop doesn't ahve unions is because of unions.
My Dad, bless him for his intellectual honesty, gave up on the Democrat party this year. Several years ago, he gave up on the union machinist merry-go-round. As a union guy, a union rep, a campaigner, etc, he realized part of the reason machine shops kept closing in the midwest is the weight of union negotiations. SO the a company reorganized, got a union work force, gave away the farm, and couldn't live up to its projections. Having been somewhat in leadership, but realizing the only profiteers of the union arrangement in his life had been the AFL/CIO, he acceted a request by his new boss one day to help organize employee benefits so there wouldn't be union talk. It wasn't easy, but he found he could not pay union dues, ask the guys what they had to ahve to survive, and voila - he gets the support he needs from the company to negotiate with his coworkers. No ill will. No 'do it or else'. No organizing. The company came to them to offer more, and all they asked was to be treated reasonably so the shop could stay in business.
As for your other posts, there are wonderful public school teachers out there. Wisconsin has no shortage of treachers who hated the idea of missing school, who didn't protest, and who supported the idea of busing in teachers from neighboring states so school could open if this nonsense continued. A large number of the teachers just don't want to be forced to pay union dues, and feel they can negotiate their own contract. I bet those teachers teach.
But a lot of teachers don't teach. We are supposed to honor them for the sacrifices they are making, then pay them more because their union demands it. Well, are you init for the kids? Or for the money? If you weren't aking much money, ok. You deserve it and we'll work it out. But the starting teacher in Wisconsin makes twice as much as the average earner and works 9 months. While other middle class people are reading Kiyosake and Ramsey and putting away 15% or less for their retirement, the teachers are putting away NOTHING. While the average cheesehead employee is paying $150/month or so into their health insurance or living without it, the teachers are contributing $75(ish).
And then there's this. In 2001, the DoE quietly published reports that told us two significant things about public education. American students in 4th grade were among world leaders in scientific literacy and reading comprehension. But 15-year olds the same year were near the bottom of the barrel. THe implication is that a)grade school teahcers are better teachers and/or grade school students are better learners, or b) the longer a student spends in public education in the US, the farther behind other students he falls. It's on indicator, but it's uncool. My kids come home all the time with this agendized nonsense that doesn't teach them anything. In Wisconsin, a history teacher made protest signs, handed them to 9 year old kids, and marched them outside to protest the governor's plan, saying it was a hsitory lesson. I guess we can kiss leading status for the fourth graders goodbye.
Saying teachers are somehow more holy than other secotrs of the economy is silly. There are good and bad teachers, as so for lawyers, insurance agents and machinists. Rather than union employess being some kind of emotional third rail, we should just look at the numbers, and determine what the state can afford. Wisconsin did that, and that's why they have Walker and a GOP senate devoted to a solution for the state's unfunded liabilities.
As for 'non-public' schools performing better, that's also a hogwash stat. What happens is charter schools actively recruit the wealthier and smarter students, and so 'inflate' their scores. Put those kids back in public schools and guess what? They perform just as well. Charter schools don't get any better results then most public schools. They ARE more exclusive.
Can't let you get away with that old canard. i have a friend who tries that on me sometimes, but it turned out he was jsut told by his union to say that during the last election.
My oldest daughter goes to a charter school. Her school in the district we lived in is a failed school that gets demogogue money, and lack of parental involvement means no one cares if the school fails. it was one of those schools where the science lesson was just as often about a black scientist as it was about any actual science. And not jsut in February. Year-round, the science was more about the scientist than it was any meaningful discovery. The predictable end result was that my kids didn't learn anything about science. Every year, the first semester of math was a review of last years' math, and the second semester was a cram to prepare for testing, such that the kids didn't learn much math.
She went to the charter school and started learning. Now, she is pretty smart, and I make her work to learn instead fo doing her homework for her, which kids still try at younger ages. But she chose to move to another school, and we chose to move her to another school. No one came calling on her 98th percentile test scores to join a charter school. The same with the other smarter kids in her class. Their families fled the school becasue it sucked.
Our new state superintendant got a reputation for developing fantastic charter schools on a tight budget. She got tired of hearing the lie that charter schools cherry pick the best and brightest and have inflated performance indicators. She teamed up with other teachers and started a new school in a broken, desitute minority area, and didn't go looking for outside students. They had a tight budget, they asked for teahcers who wanted to teach and be free of the government bs that intruded into their classrooms. Lo and behold, struggling black and hispanic kids from broken homes and violent neighborhoods began to perform like it was a bad 80s movie. And thus she is our state superintendant.
People who care get results, not throwing more money at the problem. Teahcers teaching gets results, not a federal agenda tied to "free" money. Parents being involved gets results, not surrogate parents and weekday lunches during the summer.
Again, this is about all state employees taking a sweetheart deal from political beneficiaries of the union, and not just about teachers. But if we are going to branch to discussing education and teacher salaries while talking about Wisconsin breaking under the weight of teacher (et al) salaries and benefits, let's all have an accurate picture of what organized government labor can do to us.
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* A whole bunch of good stuff *
Thank you, and well said.
We're living in a time of great income inequality, and I believe that's the time that a country needs strong unions.
As to Democratic politicians who have used a gimmick to keep this legislation from a vote...good for them! I think it's time that Democrats fight for their beliefs (and represent their constituents) with the same intensity as their Republican counterparts fight for theirs.
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it was one of those schools where the science lesson was just as often about a black scientist as it was about any actual science. And not jsut in February.I'm sure you didn't mean that to be as racist as it sounds...
What's Racist about it? Her school values the inclusion of Science History with Science...assumedly to convince African American Students that 20th century Science wasnt entirely developed by White Nazis renditioned to the USA and USSR after the War.
What should disgust us all it that they even feel the need to draw attention to the Scientists based on psudoethnecity as we are all Human and thus apparently the same 'Race'.
Though I object to being related to you six billion roaches...
So the new administration campaigns on it, promises to do this very thing, and wins the election, and STILL we seem to not want the special interest kicked out of the government.
Except Walker didn't campaign on doing what he's now doing, although he now claims he did. I'm not sure why he's saying that, because it's demonstrably false -- either he thinks people are just that stupid, or he's drinking his own Kool-Aid. I lean towards the latter. Certainly he didn't say anything about collective bargaining during his campaign, nor that this same bill would allow him to sell state power plants to whomever he chooses rather than the highest bidder, among other gems.
(Yes, I live in Wisconsin, and yes, I endured a million campaign ads last fall.)
How would you feel if the Governor of your state somehow made, let's say, abortions mandatory in the case of all teenage pregnancies in your state, despite having never talked about this during the campaign? That's about how a lot of people in Wisconsin feel now.
it was one of those schools where the science lesson was just as often about a black scientist as it was about any actual science. And not jsut in February.I'm sure you didn't mean that to be as racist as it sounds...
It's not remotely racist. People should look up thatword one day. I said there was no science in the science lesson. I idn't say black people can't be scientists, too.
If folk could maybe just one time read a post and look for the poster's intent instead of reach for the club out of reflex.
{drops club, grabs pitch fork}
So the new administration campaigns on it, promises to do this very thing, and wins the election, and STILL we seem to not want the special interest kicked out of the government.
Except Walker didn't campaign on doing what he's now doing, although he now claims he did. I'm not sure why he's saying that, because it's demonstrably false -- either he thinks people are just that stupid, or he's drinking his own Kool-Aid. I lean towards the latter. Certainly he didn't say anything about collective bargaining during his campaign, nor that this same bill would allow him to sell state power plants to whomever he chooses rather than the highest bidder, among other gems.
(Yes, I live in Wisconsin, and yes, I endured a million campaign ads last fall.)
How would you feel if the Governor of your state somehow made, let's say, abortions mandatory in the case of all teenage pregnancies in your state, despite having never talked about this during the campaign? That's about how a lot of people in Wisconsin feel now.
He campaigned on the unfunded promises, union control of government and a sagging economy that needed tough choices, yes? I concede he didn't stand on a platform and say "I will break unions" or "I will axe the current state employee deal or fire thousands". Seems like you might not have the same governor that way.
Also, he campaigned on his success at the county level right? People elected him because he promised to amke tough choices.
Can we acknowledge that cutting taxes for companies is what some people believe keeps businesses in the state, and is not automatically a gesture towards political allies. If someone was going to do the right thing and change certai rules for presenting insurance to seniors, I'd throw money at his campaign. It doesn't mean he knows me or is rewarding me after the fact. Just that he thinks it's the right way to take care of seniors or benefit one of the most regulaton-burdened industries
People keep saying 'he cut taxes for his friends'. Obama campaigned for the extension of the tax cuts, is he rewarding all those small business owners that didn't vote for him, or does he think it will help get the economy back on track?
* A whole bunch of good stuff *Thank you, and well said.
We're living in a time of great income inequality, and I believe that's the time that a country needs strong unions.
As to Democratic politicians who have used a gimmick to keep this legislation from a vote...good for them! I think it's time that Democrats fight for their beliefs (and represent their constituents) with the same intensity as their Republican counterparts fight for theirs.
There is no such thing as a time without great income equality. Ifyou want to see a wealth gap close, institute a national retail sales tax, kill a Social Security setup that destroys wealth instead of creates it, teach kids financial literacy in middle school (dont you think it's weird we don't require than, with a debt-burdened, illiterate graduating class every year for decades now?) so they learn not to destroy their own wealth with interest payments and credit troubles, and popularize long term care insurance so that entire estates aren't eaten alive by healthcare costs, which removes money from the economy and places an incrasing burden on Medicaid accounts.
Our habits create a greater wealth gap than anything else.
it was one of those schools where the science lesson was just as often about a black scientist as it was about any actual science. And not jsut in February.I'm sure you didn't mean that to be as racist as it sounds...It's not remotely racist. People should look up thatword one day. I said there was no science in the science lesson. I idn't say black people can't be scientists, too.
If folk could maybe just one time read a post and look for the poster's intent instead of reach for the club out of reflex.
Come on it has been already proven when the democrat can't actualy come up with a arguement they go for the labels of racist....facist etc. You expect any different? This what they learn from their leadership.
This is why I aviod discussing poltic with my non-think democrat friends....to be fair I have non-thinking rebublican friends also that I don't talk about this stuff about.
@Aelryinth: Something you did say...and it is completely utterly wrong. You said teachers can't fire students? Sure they can...they do it all the time. It is call stuffing them into special ed with made up BS like learning disability. ?I know I was in a spec ed class till the 6th grade ( when my parent finally won and got me out of them...) most of them are troublemakers which really does suck for kids who actualy need a spec ed class.
Teachers should be held more accountable as should unions.
* A whole bunch of good stuff *Thank you, and well said.
We're living in a time of great income inequality, and I believe that's the time that a country needs strong unions.
As to Democratic politicians who have used a gimmick to keep this legislation from a vote...good for them! I think it's time that Democrats fight for their beliefs (and represent their constituents) with the same intensity as their Republican counterparts fight for theirs.
One could argue that Union helped reach this point. Where are the Unions fighting to keep American jobs here...oh wait they sold out to the Democrats with NATFA( again arcomys might be messed up).
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* A whole bunch of good stuff *Thank you, and well said.
We're living in a time of great income inequality, and I believe that's the time that a country needs strong unions.
As to Democratic politicians who have used a gimmick to keep this legislation from a vote...good for them! I think it's time that Democrats fight for their beliefs (and represent their constituents) with the same intensity as their Republican counterparts fight for theirs.
There is no such thing as a time without great income equality. Ifyou want to see a wealth gap close, institute a national retail sales tax, kill a Social Security setup that destroys wealth instead of creates it, teach kids financial literacy in middle school (dont you think it's weird we don't require than, with a debt-burdened, illiterate graduating class every year for decades now?) so they learn not to destroy their own wealth with interest payments and credit troubles, and popularize long term care insurance so that entire estates aren't eaten alive by healthcare costs, which removes money from the economy and places an incrasing burden on Medicaid accounts.
Our habits create a greater wealth gap than anything else.
Or, raise taxes on the rich to the levels they were under Reagan (or Eisenhower).
Or, don't eliminate the Estate Tax, just to benefit a few hundred wealthy families every year.Or, charge Social Security tax on people's entire income.
If you want to address a wealth gap, adopt a tax policy that doesn't funnel wealth to the top 1% at the expense of everyone else.
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One could argue that Union helped reach this point. Where are the Unions fighting to keep American jobs here...oh wait they sold out to the Democrats with NATFA( again arcomys might be messed up).* A whole bunch of good stuff *Thank you, and well said.
We're living in a time of great income inequality, and I believe that's the time that a country needs strong unions.
As to Democratic politicians who have used a gimmick to keep this legislation from a vote...good for them! I think it's time that Democrats fight for their beliefs (and represent their constituents) with the same intensity as their Republican counterparts fight for theirs.
Right...it was the Unions that pushed NAFTA! All of these trade agreements that destroyed jobs were supported by Unions. Sure. Your revisionist history is a sight to behold...
Right...it was the Unions that pushed NAFTA! All of these trade agreements that destroyed jobs were supported by Unions. Sure. Your revisionist history is a sight to behold...One could argue that Union helped reach this point. Where are the Unions fighting to keep American jobs here...oh wait they sold out to the Democrats with NATFA( again arcomys might be messed up).* A whole bunch of good stuff *Thank you, and well said.
We're living in a time of great income inequality, and I believe that's the time that a country needs strong unions.
As to Democratic politicians who have used a gimmick to keep this legislation from a vote...good for them! I think it's time that Democrats fight for their beliefs (and represent their constituents) with the same intensity as their Republican counterparts fight for theirs.
Um...where did I say pushed? Please read what I said. They did not do anything to stop it because it was the Democrats who pushed it...and please we all know the democrats are owned by( The Unions....which is curious why Union member who actualy know what is going don't want to pay dues anymore they tired of it being used to elect officials who ship there jobs over seas.)
I amazed...do people really think Union leaders are pure uncoruptable and anything approaching the common men? That they should be somehow above scutiny?
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One could argue that Union helped reach this point. Where are the Unions fighting to keep American jobs here...oh wait they sold out to the Democrats with NATFA( again arcomys might be messed up).
Right...it was the Unions that pushed NAFTA! All of these trade agreements that destroyed jobs were supported by Unions. Sure. Your revisionist history is a sight to behold...
Um...where did I say pushed? Please read what I said. They did not do anything to stop it because it was the Democrats who pushed it...and please we all know the democrats are owned by( The Unions....which is curious why Union member who actualy know what is going don't want to pay dues anymore they tired of it being used to elect officials who ship there jobs over seas.)
NAFTA was signed by George H. W. Bush. Bill Clinton then came into office before the treaty was ratified.
While many Democrats voted for NAFTA, far more Republicans voted for it (only 11 Republicans voted against it in the Senate).
It wasn't Democrats who pushed it, it was Corporatist politicians of both parties. Yes, Bill Clinton supported it, and yes, I think he was a crappy President because of it.
If the Democrats were truly owned by Unions, as you claim, they wouldn't have passed NAFTA.
You can argue anything if facts aren't important to you. Why don't you show where Labor Unions ever supported NAFTA?
My only experiance with unions has been negative.
My very first job at the Hamilton Beach factory in N.C. was lost because as soon as the folks started talking union the company up and closed. This was back in 88-89 and I had just been hired. I was there about a year and had heard all the union talk but didn't want any part of it. The union was voted on and was approved, the next week the gates were locked and all of us were out of a job.
Same thing happened in Grand Junction colorado at a place called Thermo assembly and Test. I was there for 2 years and when they voted in a union rather than accept the minimum wage the company moved to a diffrent part of the state.
If you want to help workers then pay them a decent wage and give them decent benifits and you will have a incredible work force of people that will go the extra mile for their employer.
On the other hand I firmly believe that we as an american work force have been spoiled rotten.
I happen to be very lucky that as of right now,all things being subject to change, I am in a great job that I actually love doing, makeing more money per hour than I have ever made and better benifits than I have ever had.
Yes I pay 40 bucks a week for my full coverage but I can go to any doctors office and get what I need taken care of with no issues. My diabetes medications run me about 78 cents for 90 day supply. When my co-workers complain about not haveing gotten a raise for the past 2 years or the fact that we are being under paid I just look at them like their nuts.
The big thing that ticks me off the most is when the boss asks you to go a little above and beyond they are usually met with"That's not my job, that's not in my contract" or some other crap like that. What ever happened to going the extra mile at work because you want to? or actally giveing a crap about your job because it's what you were hired to do and not just because it will look good on your next eval.
The wisconsin teachers need to get over themselves and pay their fair share for THEIR retirment and fall in line with the other state employees. The democrats that walked out need to be compeled back to do the job they were elected to do, whether thye like it or not they should still show up for work. If I didn't I'd be fired and so would the rest of us why are they exempt?
How would you feel if the Governor of your state somehow made, let's say, abortions mandatory in the case of all teenage pregnancies in your state, despite having never talked about this during the campaign? That's about how a lot of people in Wisconsin feel now.
That is really the comparison you want to make? You think that it is a rational comparison?
What was that earlier about tin-foil hats and such?