So in a recent Serpents Skull campaign, our ronin was fighting an oracle who killed his horse with a few inflict spells, turned it skeletal via animate dead and tried to ride off with it.
the ronin promptly ended his escape with a few arrows to the back.
but that doesnt end the problem. no more horse.
Now rangers and druids have wild empathy, and semi mystic powers. The Cavalier has expert trainer (all explain how one gets a new animal companion)
But with with samurai we are left with just the mount ability.
So in the case, how does the ronin get a new mount? In the mount section it says he waits a week and gets a new one, and then it takes until he gains a new level for it to get special bonded abilities.
But how does one acquire a new one?
as said above, cav, druid, ranger all have abilities by which they can train/charm/pick out new animals.
Is it assumed the samurai buys a new one in town? Why does it say in the class section "horse or camel" it sort of sounds like they maybe be limited to those, but i think the intent is because of their level in comparison to druid companions that are mounts.
HOW exactly would a samurai without wild empathy or expert trainer go about training say a stegosaurus or a hippo or something else nasty to ride (in the absence of a horse or horse like creature) with nothing to fall back on but handle animal??
So what was the intention here, or was that over looked in the initial creation of the class?
I would also like to see the falconry option as an alternative to mount and maybe instead of mounted archer go along the lines of something borrowed from the hound master cavalier from RPG superstar.
(im having visuals of the ronin trying to mount a raptor and try to 'break it' like a cowboy)
Also could the party druid use her wild empathy to initially tame the beast and/or charm spells and the samurai eventually take it as his mount?
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If the mount was killed through no error of the samurai's, his daimyo will bestow upon him a new steed as a gift.
If the samurai caused the death of his horse, he either becomes a pedestrian or, if he dishonoured himself, has to commit seppuku to restore his honour.
Or something like that. I guess it's up to the GM and player.
If the mount was killed through no error of the samurai's, his daimyo will bestow upon him a new steed as a gift.
If the samurai caused the death of his horse, he either becomes a pedestrian or, if he dishonoured himself, has to commit seppuku to restore his honour.
Or something like that. I guess it's up to the GM and player.
the character is a ronin, and also in saventh yhi (looking around) I see no daimyos
it must happen threw sheer badassery.
the samurai demands so much respect that it just gets a new mount.
samurai: 1 nature :0
Yojimbo demands a mount! "poof" a mount arrives.
or...
Yojimbo engages butterfly in staring contest of death, you are my mount, now...become a horse!
I like it!
the character is a ronin, and also in saventh yhi (looking around) I see no daimyosIf the mount was killed through no error of the samurai's, his daimyo will bestow upon him a new steed as a gift.
If the samurai caused the death of his horse, he either becomes a pedestrian or, if he dishonoured himself, has to commit seppuku to restore his honour.
Or something like that. I guess it's up to the GM and player.
That's because ronin daimyos have great Stealth bonuses.
That's because ronin daimyos have great Stealth bonuses.the character is a ronin, and also in saventh yhi (looking around) I see no daimyosIf the mount was killed through no error of the samurai's, his daimyo will bestow upon him a new steed as a gift.
If the samurai caused the death of his horse, he either becomes a pedestrian or, if he dishonoured himself, has to commit seppuku to restore his honour.
Or something like that. I guess it's up to the GM and player.
*rolls a 20 for perception* hey you! yea you! Bush! the one that moved! Gimme a new horse!
I just had a vision of buck from ice age, dawn of the dinosaurs, where the muskrat is talking to the rock like a telephone and the mastadon says to the tiger "that will be you in two weeks"
*rolls a 20 for perception* hey you! yea you! Bush! the one that moved!
This is a public shrubbery!
(Actual quote from one of our games.)
Doesn't the steed function as an animal companion? In which case, if it died you'd just have to mope around for a week for a new one to come along.
Agro!
Doesn't the steed function as an animal companion? In which case, if it died you'd just have to mope around for a week for a new one to come along.
Yeah, but the question is: Why? Why does that horse come along? The OP wants an explanation that goes beyond "the rules say so".
Generally in most cases druid/ranger/ etc. I have them find a suitable companion and bond with it. So your riderless samurai needs to find himself a quality steed. And you get a rap on your DM fingers if you can't make a good session out of it. :)Doesn't the steed function as an animal companion? In which case, if it died you'd just have to mope around for a week for a new one to come along.Yeah, but the question is: Why? Why does that horse come along? The OP wants an explanation that goes beyond "the rules say so".
so a horse or a camel in a lost jungle city?
Horse Salesman: Hello there! May I interest you in one of our quality steeds?
Samurai: *ignores him, checks out an older horse* Those eyes of yours have seen things, haven't they?
Horse Salesman: Oh, you don't want that one, we can't even breed her anymore. If you'd just follow me-
Samurai: I'll take it.
Horse Salesman: Wait what?
Horse Salesman: Hello there! May I interest you in one of our quality steeds?
Samurai: *ignores him, checks out an older horse* Those eyes of yours have seen things, haven't they?
Horse Salesman: Oh, you don't want that one, we can't even breed her anymore. If you'd just follow me-
Samurai: I'll take it.
Horse Salesman: Wait what?
that would explain the cavaliers "expert trainer" samurai doesn't have that. and i dint see any horse salesmen in saventh yhi, maybe they are hiding behind the daimyo?
You could have him convince a winged gorilla to be his new mount. Heck of a penalty to the ride check, though.
You could have him convince a winged gorilla to be his new mount. Heck of a penalty to the ride check, though.
hmmmm 'convince' would that be like aggressive negotiations?
You find a horse - an amazingly fine quality steed - wandering out of the jungle into your faction's camp. It has a saddle and bridle, but no saddlebags. The saddle is covered with dried blood, as if it's last rider was killed, probably many days ago. It is hungry and perhaps mildly injured. There are no indications where it came from, leaving a mystery for your character.
Soon thereafter, a group of reinforcements (or a supply run) arrives in Saventh-Yhi for one of the other factions, quite possibly a faction with which your group has a strong rivalry. You have no way of knowing it, but the horse you found belonged to a member of their group that vanished during their journey here...
You could have him convince a winged gorilla to be his new mount. Heck of a penalty to the ride check, though.hmmmm 'convince' would that be like aggressive negotiations?
I believe the business term is "hostile takeover".
You find a horse - an amazingly fine quality steed - wandering out of the jungle into your faction's camp. It has a saddle and bridle, but no saddlebags. The saddle is covered with dried blood, as if it's last rider was killed, probably many days ago. It is hungry and perhaps mildly injured. There are no indications where it came from, leaving a mystery for your character.
Soon thereafter, a group of reinforcements (or a supply run) arrives in Saventh-Yhi for one of the other factions, quite possibly a faction with which your group has a strong rivalry. You have no way of knowing it, but the horse you found belonged to a member of their group that vanished during their journey here...
Nice idea!
You find a horse - an amazingly fine quality steed - wandering out of the jungle into your faction's camp. It has a saddle and bridle, but no saddlebags. The saddle is covered with dried blood, as if it's last rider was killed, probably many days ago. It is hungry and perhaps mildly injured. There are no indications where it came from, leaving a mystery for your character.
Soon thereafter, a group of reinforcements (or a supply run) arrives in Saventh-Yhi for one of the other factions, quite possibly a faction with which your group has a strong rivalry. You have no way of knowing it, but the horse you found belonged to a member of their group that vanished during their journey here...
Hmmm that idea has intriguing merit.
Should I make the mount more interesting than 'any old horse'
I dont mean it has to be a ki-rin, but what could i make it, to be even more interesting...
Does the samurai even need a horse? I mean, Is that the iconic for a real samurai?
Chivalry was a term coined for the code of conduct for knights and gentry in the western world, but it originally meant something akin to "Horsemanship". Bushido is the samurai way of the warrior, and it really has nothing much to do with horses... why do Samurai get a horse then.
I could understand if the character concept was for something akin to a Mongol horse archer (which I think there needs to be) but not for a Samurai. Sure, they could fight on horseback, but they weren't spiritually BOUND to any particular horse (per se). From what I understand, though, they WERE spiritually bound to their swords...
If I were to make the samurai, I would utilize something akin to the Paladin's spiritual bond to his weapon in the build rather than to the mount.
it's a class feature of the samurai, like the ranger or the druid, when a ranger or a druid loose a companion, they have a way of attracting a new replacement companion "in the wild".
Having a horse trot around the corner in the middle of the jungle seems a little silly.
However, the samurai has been riding "phantom steed", "Mount" and creatures summon through monster summoning, cast by the magus and the witch in the group, which have been a lot of fun, as the mount just disappears when it's not wanted.
Yes, and yes. Samurai were not only cavalry figures, the Daisho's off center construction was specifically designed to be used from horseback.Does the samurai even need a horse? I mean, Is that the iconic for a real samurai?
Naaww... I'm pretty sure that the wakisashi part of the Daisho was so that the samurai always had a weapon ready to stab himself in the gut with. I think it wasn't until Myamoto Musashi that two weapon fighting became all the rage.(I'd give an XP bonus to Samurai if they disembowell themselves for failing their Lord)
That was when all the Samurai started saying to themselves, "You mean I can stab somebody ELSE with this thing? Well slap my face, and call me a Ronin!"
From what I can tell Kendo is not taught from horseback -- in fact I can't seem to recall any stories about Samurai who fought on horseback. They certainly shot bows on horseback, so I guess that counts. In fact, being on a horse with a bow and arrow went out of fashion after the Tokugawa Shogunate in preference to fighting with sword and spear and mobile armor using ashigaru ("light feet") tactics. That's not saying it disappeared, but one-on-one combat was preferred.
Even though they were good riders I don't think it is enough to give them a horse follower like cavaliers or paladins -- they really WEREN'T dedicated horse fighters (not like the Western Knight in Shining or the mobile and agile Mongols). They really were more comfortable as fast moving Guerrilla foot soldiers.
Devs, If you are going to give every class that ever looked at a horse a horse follower, you might as well give Wizards a Horse follower (Gandalf had Shadowfax) or Gunslingers a horse follower (actually, that's a pretty good idea: The Lone Ranger had Silver, Roy Rodgers had Trigger, and heck! Rooster Cogburn had ol' Bo!). A Samurai HORSE, eh, it just doesn't work for me... might as well be a Samurai PENGUIN!
Can the penguin slide down hill on it's belly for extra speed during a charge? I'm up for that!
How would I find a jungle penguin?
Conversely I'm really tempted to replace the horse follower with a falcon.
Could your Animal companion benefit from teamwork feats?
Hmmmm. How could I make a falcon with team work feats work with an arching ronin?
You could have him convince a winged gorilla to be his new mount. Heck of a penalty to the ride check, though.
I just felt that I should mention that I would not be too enthused about being a samurai's mount. Especially since you just killed your last one!
You could have him convince a winged gorilla to be his new mount. Heck of a penalty to the ride check, though.I just felt that I should mention that I would not be too enthused about being a samurai's mount. Especially since you just killed your last one!
I didnt kill my last one the bullywug did!
he can train them, and pick better ones. Samurai buys a horse just like a wizard or a fighter,yet inexplicably gets a special bond with it? No expert training, no mystical nature powers just poof special mount in a can.
Still doesn't feel right.
The mechanic is there without the flavor and fluff, so it doesn't feel right, like the title of the thread says.
For the method, how about letting the samurai made a small sacrifize (incense) to the kamis (let him build a small shrine, one of these small pillars with a tiny house on top that you can find in front of all these shinto temples) and the spirits of the nature guide his new mount to him (japan is quite ritualistic with shinto stuff and shintos say to be in touch with nature - of course, golarion samurais are no shintos but it´s still iconic, eh?)
More or Less, it just feels like it's "left over" from being a cavalier variant with nothing else in the character to support it.
Mount and Mounted archer should be in a samurai archetype with maybe something else to back it up, not the main samurai.
he can train them, and pick better ones. Samurai buys a horse just like a wizard or a fighter,yet inexplicably gets a special bond with it? No expert training, no mystical nature powers just poof special mount in a can.
Still doesn't feel right.The mechanic is there without the flavor and fluff, so it doesn't feel right, like the title of the thread says.
You are looking to tie unrelated abilities together. Mounts and Animal companions are self contained class abilities. They do not rely on other class abilities to function. The only connection between mounts/animal companions and things like Expert Trainer and Wild Empathy is that they both involve animals. That's all the connection they share as written. Any further connection is a construct of your own mind and does not actually exist. The only other commonality they could possibly claim is being class features of the same class.
Want proof?
Cavalier does not get Expert Trainer till 4th level. They get their mount at 1st. By your logic, since expert trainer is how they select a new mount, a Cavalier whose mount dies before 4th level cannot replace it until they get Expert Trainer. The rules however clearly state that the cavalier may find another mount to serve him after 1 week of mourning.
In fact, how can the even have a mount at 1st level if they need Expert Trainer (4th) to select and bond with it?
** spoiler omitted **
The entire background (fluff is a marshmallow spread) for the Mount special ability is in the section of the class writeup under Mount. Nowhere does it reference or imply this ability being dependent on any other class ability.
What makes the mount special beyond what is in the write up? Hand wave it. Make up a story. Roll a die if it makes you feel better. But do not insist that it be tied mechanically to other mechanically unrelated class abilities.
Do you understand the concept of "Feel"?
Level of the Samurai?
As a DM you can rule that due to special circumstances the Samurai is aloud an unorthodox mount like a Tiger, Giant Bat or, like you said, a freaking dinosaur the problem is that this would only be a solution from level 7 onward.
Humbly,
Yawar
Level of the Samurai?
As a DM you can rule that due to special circumstances the Samurai is aloud an unorthodox mount like a Tiger, Giant Bat or, like you said, a freaking dinosaur the problem is that this would only be a solution from level 7 onward.
Humbly,
Yawar
The Ronin is level 7 or 8. So yea he could take something weird.
He's been riding "mount" and Phantom steeds the last few sessions.
Giant bats is just going to funny.
Dinosaurs would be nifty but as a bipedal, wouldnt it need to be a huge and not a large critter (T-Rex, Velociraptor etc) and there for wouldnt qualify as a mount until 11th or whenever.
So the Ronin would need what? a Stego? Triceratops? both seem kinda lame.
It's just that in this setting, horses just dont wander the woods. Legacy of Fire, Second Darkness, I could see getting a horse.
Council of theives horse wouldnt really have fit at all.
Kingmaker you could have gotten a new horse too.
The only thing I can ee, for another horse would be one from another faction that was mentioned a few weeks back, i think ill either have that happen, or, maybe a dire tiger?
A dino-mount would be really cool, im just having trouble envisioning the right one that mechanics will allow.
There are halfling figures mounting medium raptors, so a medium samurai could mount a pigmy T-Rex (animal companions only com in small, medium and large). He will need an exotic saddle, but that's it.
Tiger are particularly awesome mounts.
Humbly,
Yawar
PSD: you can ride gorillas at Blaster/Master Mad Max III: Beyond the Thunderdome style, but that's simply a whole new level of silly.
There are halfling figures mounting medium raptors, so a medium samurai could mount a pigmy T-Rex (animal companions only com in small, medium and large). He will need an exotic saddle, but that's it.
Tiger are particularly awesome mounts.
Humbly,
YawarPSD: you can ride gorillas at Blaster/Master Mad Max III: Beyond the Thunderdome style, but that's simply a whole new level of silly.
Tiger would be pretty intersting.... There are some dire tigers somewhere in the AP, i saw them leafing through.
Yes, and yes. Samurai were not only cavalry figures, the Daisho's off center construction was specifically designed to be used from horseback.Does the samurai even need a horse? I mean, Is that the iconic for a real samurai?
Naaww... I'm pretty sure that the wakisashi part of the Daisho was so that the samurai always had a weapon ready to stab himself in the gut with. I think it wasn't until Myamoto Musashi that two weapon fighting became all the rage.(I'd give an XP bonus to Samurai if they disembowell themselves for failing their Lord)
That was when all the Samurai started saying to themselves, "You mean I can stab somebody ELSE with this thing? Well slap my face, and call me a Ronin!"
From what I can tell Kendo is not taught from horseback -- in fact I can't seem to recall any stories about Samurai who fought on horseback. They certainly shot bows on horseback, so I guess that counts. In fact, being on a horse with a bow and arrow went out of fashion after the Tokugawa Shogunate in preference to fighting with sword and spear and mobile armor using ashigaru ("light feet") tactics. That's not saying it disappeared, but one-on-one combat was preferred.
Even though they were good riders I don't think it is enough to give them a horse follower like cavaliers or paladins -- they really WEREN'T dedicated horse fighters (not like the Western Knight in Shining or the mobile and agile Mongols). They really were more comfortable as fast moving Guerrilla foot soldiers.
Devs, If you are going to give every class that ever looked at a horse a horse follower, you might as well give Wizards a Horse follower (Gandalf had Shadowfax) or Gunslingers a horse follower (actually, that's a pretty good idea: The Lone Ranger had Silver, Roy Rodgers had Trigger, and heck! Rooster Cogburn had ol' Bo!). A Samurai HORSE, eh, it just doesn't work for me... might as well be a Samurai PENGUIN!
You wore the smaller wakisachi to be used inside when the katana was taken off. The wakisachi never left the samurai, and he slept with it under his pillow. Also it acted as a backup, like a dagger. Lastly it was a status symbol. A "Man-at-Arms" might wear a sword, but only samurai wore the two swords.
The samurai would do well with a kind of bonded weapon rule to replace the mount. But I cant see that working mechanically with a loot dependent melee class.