I'm trying to come up with a good build using the two weapon warrior out of the APG. I'm trying to stay away from rogue, but branch away from warrior for some skills. Anyone have any advice?
The Ranger is a natural choice, 6+int skill points, bonus feats, favored enemies, etc.
I'm trying to come up with a good build using the two weapon warrior out of the APG. I'm trying to stay away from rogue, but branch away from warrior for some skills. Anyone have any advice?
Kind of depends on your stats. Most people pick high dex classes because of the requirements for the feat. Ranger bypasses that.
I've seen a straight fighter who rolled high stats and just decimated with two weapon fighting. Double slice is great for anyone who has high strength and dex.
You could also try doing improved shield bash.
I think a good choice is Barbarian
Think about it, the strength boost with double slice
to get conservatively 1D8+5 and 1d6+5
if you rolled stats possibly +7
4+int skills
kinda lame armor but uncanny dodge
and HIT POINTS
lots of them
I have an 18 str and an 18 dex so the ranger benefit wouldn't be that big...
Those are PERFECT for a barbarian
I would lean on Ranger.
Rangers get bonus Feats and Favored Enemies, Favored Terrain, Skills, A pet (or a group Buff), Spells...
Barbs get... Strength? and Hit Points? *woot* :p (just kidding, I like Barbs, too :) )
GNOME
If you are looking for concept, play whatever suits your fancy, as the character you are talking about will do fine.
If you are looking for optimization:
To make good use of the Two-Weapon Warrior, you need to use the same one-handed non-light weapon in both hands and you will want 15 levels of the archetype. A good choice would be to burn a feat on Falcata Proficiency and use that 1d8 -> 2d6 when your friendly caster enlarges you. If you go Half-Orc, the Double Axe is pretty great too. The reason you should choose a single weapon is due to the focus and weapon specialization feats, you only have to purchase them once.
If you are planning to dual-weild regularly (offhand light) then do not take the Two-Weapon Warrior archetype, the regular fighter yeilds more benefits.
For more skills, consider:
--bard. For the price of 1 BAB, you get access to nearly all skills, and your get skill points to use them. In addition, inspire courage makes up the 1 BAB you lose. You can have your warrior be an orator and recite shakespeare while you battle.
--barbarian. Full BAB, Rage bonus, and 4+ skill points per level is nothing to sneeze at. It is a natural synergist and has freightening results with dual weilders.
--ranger. Full BAB, good skill points, Endurance (sleeping in armor, as a warrior, is a seriously good perk), and this class helps you qualify for Horizon Walker, which in my opinion, is one of the better prestige classes.
--Chevalier. Full BAB, some paladin goodies without being a paladin, including Smite Evil 1/day. Even only getting it once per day is such a big bonus that the poison immunity, and bonuses to charging and getting into melee are just whip cream on top.
--Student of War. A great prestige class if you want to move that 18 into Intelligence. Full BAB, tons of skills, some nice bonuses, the class's mind over metal allows you to replace dex modifier to AC with your int modifier, of course you are still limited by the armor you choose as to your maximum bonus.
So there are some ideas, for you to think about. Do any of them ignite a spark of interest?
I'm trying to come up with a good build using the two weapon warrior out of the APG. I'm trying to stay away from rogue, but branch away from warrior for some skills. Anyone have any advice?
Did someone actually read the OP?
OP: do you prefer a full damage build, a build with some ranged attack and decent damage, a build with few maneuvers and decent TWF damage?
Starting Level? Stats? Could you bring some more info?
I'm trying to come up with a good build using the two weapon warrior out of the APG. I'm trying to stay away from rogue, but branch away from warrior for some skills. Anyone have any advice?Did someone actually read the OP?
OP: do you prefer a full damage build, a build with some ranged attack and decent damage, a build with few maneuvers and decent TWF damage?
Starting Level? Stats? Could you bring some more info?
Yep, and I answered his question with pretty much all the options I could think of. He just wants more skills, so your questions don't really apply to his question/request/post... even though they are excellent questions if he was looking for actual build assistance.
PS - changed your bold to put the emphasis on the correct part of the request :)
Yep, and I answered his question with pretty much all the options I could think of. He just wants more skills, so your questions don't really apply to his question/request/post... even though they are excellent questions if he was looking for actual build assistance.
PS - changed your bold to put the emphasis on the correct part of the request :)
I was thinking that human + combat expertise line (int 13-14) could bring in 4/5 skills/level if high PB is used or high stats are rolled.
But I see your point ;)
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Did someone actually read the OP?OP: do you prefer a full damage build, a build with some ranged attack and decent damage, a build with few maneuvers and decent TWF damage?
Starting Level? Stats? Could you bring some more info?
Thanks to everyone who responded.
Starting at level 1 with18 str
18 dex
11 con
16 int
12 wis
12 chr
I'd rather go the pure melee route
Did someone actually read the OP?OP: do you prefer a full damage build, a build with some ranged attack and decent damage, a build with few maneuvers and decent TWF damage?
Starting Level? Stats? Could you bring some more info?
Thanks to everyone who responded.
Starting at level 1 with
18 str
18 dex
11 con
16 int
12 wis
12 chrI'd rather go the pure melee route
Nice stats. I would seriously just go straight fighter. You've got the Strength and Dexterity to make two-weapon fighting work well. With your Intelligence, you're going to have 5 skill points per level unless you go with human in which case you've got 6. That should be good enough. You've got bonuses to every skill through your stats. If you really need to pick up some class skills, use Cosmopolitan and your Traits to net you up to 4 class skills.
If you stick to identical weapons, you can save on feat but you can do this with different weapons. I would consider short swords, or throwing axes (with returning). Just remember that this is going to be costly for weapons. As you level it won't be as much of an issue.
Personally, I still feel that the Falcata is the best TWF weapon, and well worth the feat.
Keen Falcata: 1d8/17-20/x3; TWF penalty: -1/-1; Enlarged: 2d6 damage
Keen Kukri: 1d4/15-20/x2; TWF penalty 0/0; enlarged: 1d6 damage
So Falcata sacrifices 1 point of attack and 10% chance to crit, for twice as much dice damage, and 50% more crit damage.
And of course, both of them get style points...so its really up to the OP.
Fighter 15/Bard 1/Dragon Disciple 4?
Would be an interesting way to cap the build while netting you skill points, some nice spells that may be handy, +4 strength, more HPs, +3 natural armor, a pretty nifty bite attack now and then (made at full BAB and gets 1.5 Str bonus to damage!), boosts to your will and reflex saves, and assorted Bardy goodies.
Might even go with first level in Bard, just so that you can use wands and such (specifically of Cure) throughout the whole game. You could also mix in DD that way whenever you felt like it, if you so desired.
+1 for Falcatas.
This is in no way what you are asking for, but I'm just throwing it out there because I can't help myself....
Your stats are perfect for an Arcane Archer style build. Your worst stat is CON, which in a frontliner is going to eventually hurt you. You have high enough Int, with matching awesome Dex and Str.....
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Man, those are nice stats.
Either build suggested by me above.
You could also cover TWF/mounted with and order of the shield cavalier (a human one has just enough feats for sword n board TWF/mounted) plus the Tactician abilty is huge if you got 1 or2 melee buddies.A ranger20 with wolf buddy (boon companion) duel wielding Shortswords and rocking FE or instant enemy spell is also great.
All builds with those stats would have crazy awesome dpr. (Fighter would haversion it all the time, the others would need to use thier special bit- flank, challenge, fe.
Let me know your preferred flavor and i can post a full build.
Incidently your will and HP are an issue, i'd place favored bonus into HP and take toughness. You'll also need iron will and the Birthmark trait.
Because of the 3 feat sink to cover those weakness i'd seriously go fighter or cavalier.
I'm really wanting to stay away from the mounted stuff as its limited if you go into a dungeon...
What is the Birthmark trait?
I'm thinking about 6 levels of ranger and the rest warrior unless someone has a better idea...
If you want to use the Two Weapon Fighter from the APG, you will want 15 levels of fighter at minimum in order to get full advantage of bonuses. If you do not plan to go for 15 levels, then it would be better to take 4 levels of weapon specialist fighter and 10 levels of ranger in order to obtain the feats for dual weilding, and the weapon specialization feats, and weapon training from weapon specialist.
In the former example (TWF 15), I would suggest Falcata as your best weapon choice.
In the latter example (WS4/Rng10), I would suggest Kukri as your best weapon choice.
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After looking at the stats. Dead man walking. You are going to play a fighter with Con 11? if you can't move your stats around you realy need to go with range combat and some one with evasion. I can not stress enough how much you need a better con if your going to melee.
Best one handed weapon by far Falcata.
Full Fighter for DPS.
Skills + DPS Ranger.
DPS + Skills Fighter/Rogue or Ranger/Rogue
Over all best with the stats you have.
Fighter 16 / Rogue 2 ( Evasion ) / Paladin 2 ( Cha bouns to saves )
Swap Int and Con. 12 Int + Human will give you 4 skill points per lvl, should suffice. You need at least 14 Con to survive the battles. Remeber, you need full-attacks so you will be in your enemies' face the entire battle.
Then read this guide. It is an excellent source of info about tactics of a two-weapon fighter.
The main point of the guide is this: in order to b succesfull, you have to full-attack a lot. To achieve that, you need eitehr pounce or an ability to lockdown the opponent. The two-weapon warrior excels in the latter. I will just copy-paste the sample tww and the comments below:
1-TWF, Weapon Fcs: Scimitar,H- Iron Will
2-Bravery, Quickdraw
3-Defensive Flurry +1, Power Attack
4-Weapon Specialization: Scimitar
5-Twin Blades +1, Combat Exp
6-Improved Trip
7-Defensive Flurry +2, ITWF
8-Gtr Wpn Fcs: Scimitar, Retrain Quickdraw for Greater Trip
9-Twin Blades +2, Double strike, Doubleslice
10- Critical Focus
11-Improved Balance (-1/-1), Defensive Flurry +3, Versatile Critical
12- Two Weapon Rend
13-Twin Blades +3, Equal Opportunity, Combat Reflexes
14-Pin Down
15-Perfect Balance (0/0), Defensive Flurry, Dazing Assault
16-Gtr Wpn Spl, (Retrain Greater Trip for Blinding Critical)
17-Twin Blades +4, Deft Double strike, Critical Mastery
18- GTWF
19-Deadly Defense, Defensive Flurry +5, Improved Iron Will
20-Weapon Mastery, Retrain Dazing Assault for StunningTactic:
Basically, the idea is to throw chakrams at low levels till the enemy closes with you. Then quickdraw your scimitar/kukri and full attack. I doesn’t really matter if you go first (because you want enemies to close with you, so you can full attack them). You can also trip a foe and smack them 2 handed with the Scimitar going down and coming up.
By 9th level, you have stopped throwing and are Doublestriking with your move. You can improved trip as part of a full attack. Prone is a nasty conditon and foes provoke for...
Yay! My guide is STILL referenced!
No solid plans at all. I used to work week on week off in the mines and with not much else to do besides work out, I wrote my 3 guides while away.
Now I am at home all the time and with 3 kids I only just keep up with my 5 pbp games.
Maybe if I go back to the mines. But while at home. No guides.
I'm not sure lvl 15 perfect balance actually does anything for you if you're using two scimitars:
At 15th level, the penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by an additional –1 for a two-weapon warrior. This benefit stacks with improved balance. If he is using a one-handed weapon in his off hand, treating it as a light weapon, he uses the normal light weapon penalties.
You already get normal light weapon penalties for two one-handers from improved balance.
If using two one handed weapons it might be better to get out after level 13 even though Deft Doublestrike and Deadly Defense are both awesome.