Ok, i just had a thought.
So the Devs want to keep the blackpowder/steam punk thing going, which means not cartridges.
But.... right before the advent of the cartridge (in the 1850s-60s)
soldiers had a dirty little trick to speed up reloading (it just dawned on me)
They had these little pouches which were preloaded with ball and powder, about the size of a tabacco chew pouch, the pouch its self was sufficient to serve as the patch.
So when they reloaded, instead of pour in powder, dropping in a patch and a ball, they bit off a corner of the preloaded pouch and dumped the entire thing down the barrel in one shot and chased it with the ram rod, tap tap.
this dirty little trick would make a nice addition to the deeds, a dirty little deed.
In fact it really good just be lightening reload, except lightening cost 1 grit, it's too rare, and wouldnt keep the gun fighter in the fight long enough, he'd run out of grit.
take a feat/deed tree that moves the reloading for move, to swift to free.
Maybe lightening for 1 grit could be an immediate action?
But there should be a way to get reloads faster without burning per day uses.
Following the preload ammo pouch idea (which should be gunslinger exclusive) would take the reloading into where it needs to be, and keep guns in the hands of everyone else, ho hum and a novelty (which is where it should be). It also allows me to think about the fast reloading (at least in my mind) as plausible.
Maybe it could follow a similar mechanic to bombs (but more plentiful)
Ie "the gunsligner can make X number of premade pouch loads per level per day with this deed and it works like.... (as described above) that way he doesnt necessary run out of ammo, just quick ammo. He can still reload by other means.
something like 10 quick pouches per level.... would seem nice, allowing a swift to reload, and a free in conjunction with lightening (no grit cost) and this free action would be per weapon (using as many charges of pouches as capacity was available) so for double barreled weapons, or guns with chambers (like a 6 shooter) it would be a free action that used 6 pouches or 2 pouches.
So example, a 6th level gun slinger could reload, as a free action (or a swift without lightening reload) his double barreled pistol as a free action, using 2 pouches (of which he has 60) 30 times, once he has run out of preloads, hes back to reloading under current rules. (maybe 10 per level is too many).
at 20th level 200 preloads (at 2 oz a piece) would weigh around 25 lbs, but he'd have a bag of holding or something by then anyway.
sound like a fix? maybe?
Maybe its just me, but I *like* that guns reload slowly. Can you really envision your character shooting and reloading as fast as a trained bow user?
I think people should stop thinking of gunslingers as shooters, and instead as fighters that use guns and cool tricks. It's enough that you shoot occasionally, and also use melee weapons or thrown weapons in between.
That said, my suggestion for gunslingers and reloading is to give new options to the action economy:
You are able to coordinate your motions in a way that enables you to fight and reload your gun.
Benefit: As a standard action you make make a melee attack against an adjacent foe. As part of this action you may reload a one-handed firearm.
The only details I can find are for modern pistols. How fast is the record for the primitive firearms detailed in Pathfinder?
the standard time to reload a musket was 3 shots a minute, current rules already blow that out of the water.
but as far as having a fighter who can occasionally shoot, a normal fighter could just take the exotic weapon proficiency, boom, done.
We are talking gun slinger.
Also as far as the immediate action goes, remember you loose your free/swift the next round.
The pouches made the 3 round minute much faster, but i havent read anywhere any exact times, just that is was much better.
So its just gives us a mechanic/gimmick/idea to turn reloading one firearm into a swift. Lightening makes it a free.
So if you had a 10 base for pouches, (essentially paper cartridges) then 2 for every level after the first, a 6th level gunslinger would have 20 preloaded swift action paper cartridges.
that gives a 6th level character, with two gun fighting style 5 rounds of sustained gunfire a day, id say thats not enough.
what about 5 per level after the first? thats 35 pouches.
same 6th level gunslinger, thats almost nine rounds of sustainable gun fire a day... that might be ok, its not like he HAS to use his pouches first. he could also have several backup pistols by that level.
I think somewhere between 3-5 is going to be the right number. It would have to be play tested, but even before that some Dev is going to have to right it up for us!
It should be useable but not all day.
as far as bow fire vs. gun fire, obviously bows were initially better than guns, and obviously guns at some point got way better than bows and i think that turning point is late 1800s as we see the indian nations decline and americans move farther and farther into their territory.
But in the fantasy world, the bow SHOULD be better than the gun, UNLESS there is a gunslinger using it.
Theoretically for balance, a specialized fighter/ranger archetype in bow vs. a gunslinger of the same level should be balanced. different but balanced. To achieve that, there is going to HAVE to be some fantasy fudge allowed into gunslinger deeds, because as i said, a move action to reload a weapon way out performs 3 shots a minute ALREADY.
I do not have a problem with the concept of X number of preloaded pouches per level giving the 'slinger swift weapon reloads.
If you can get quickened spells, heck this shouldn't be a stretch.
I WANT a gunslinger that has jammed weapons (occasionally or at least the threat of it happening), runs out of ammo, and has to resort to clocking people with the butt of his pistol to make good his escape.
It's part of the flavor.
And it would be dumb to have ALL martial proficiencies if I never used a kukri or shortsword.
Ever seen Quigley Down Under?
Hey, that gun slinger just cut that guys head off with a falchion!
"I SAID I never had much USE for one, Never Said I didn't know how to USE it"
Me personally, I would pull ALL martial from the gunslinger, give him a bit more specialization if possible in the gun and limit him to all simple plusa choice list of common martials. (maybe 6 or 8) Id like that better.
the standard time to reload a musket was 3 shots a minute, current rules already blow that out of the water.
but as far as having a fighter who can occasionally shoot, a normal fighter could just take the exotic weapon proficiency, boom, done.
And then the level 1 gunslinger comes along with two free pistols and a bunch of Deeds and BOOM, your fighter is dead.
We are talking gun slinger.
Also as far as the immediate action goes, remember you loose your free/swift the next round.
So why not make it a free action instead? I don't see why reloading should be out-of-turn.
So if you had a 10 base for pouches, (essentially paper cartridges) then 2 for every level after the first, a 6th level gunslinger would have 20 preloaded swift action paper cartridges.
that gives a 6th level character, with two gun fighting style 5 rounds of sustained gunfire a day, id say thats not enough.
OK, what's actually in these pouches? A bullet, a bit of black powder, wrapped in a bit of paper. It makes no sense at all to say that the number you get per day is limited by class level. They're items!.
Also: "sustained gunfire a day", hmm ... spaghetti western fan at all? Gunslingers are not intended to use sustained gunfire; the "slinging" is about show, style, and accuracy.
But in the fantasy world, the bow SHOULD be better than the gun, UNLESS there is a gunslinger using it.That's the whole point of making it an Exotic weapon.
sorceror, the pouches would be items no one else knows how to make or use, akin to an alchemist bomb.
He can't stay up all night and make an endless number of them,they take time to individually measure pack, wrap and store safely and correctly, as the gunslinger gains experience he will be able to do it fast, and make more of them a day.having an exotic weapon proficiency doesn't make the gunslinger any better at using it. So your above statement doesn't actually make sense when attacked to quoting mine.
any gunman, given enough ammo, could 'sustain' a certain rate of fire.
For the civil war area musketman sustained rate of fire was 3 rounds a minute.
this term includes how long it takes to fire the weapon (aimed, not wildly) and reload and do it again.
for the sixshooter or lever action rifle this rate of sustained fire is obviously much higher, due to the fact the weapon both holds more ammo and is easier/faster to reload.
The actual act of aiming and pulling the trigger is more or less static and doesn't change noticeably.
All the way up to a modern weapon like the machine gun that has a cyclic rate of fire of 600 rounds a minute but its 'sustained rate of fire' is only 450 rounds a minute (because you have to change out barrels to keep them from melting, in order to continue to fire)
so a sustained rate of fire isnt "spaghetti western"
and one of the major issues we've been discussing for days is how to make a perfected/balanced way to allow the gunslinger to engage in full attack actions with his primary weapon, the gun.
If he can't do that, he isnt a gunslinger, he's a fighter with an exotic weapon.
the only reason i mentioned immediate action, is because it's lightening reload, on top of an already swift action, and and immediate action would allow a gunslinger to fire at full bab, (use up the ammo in a gun, reload as an immediate action, and continue to fire.)
but he couldnt do it again next round, so it would be a draw back. But he wouldnt have to wait until his next turn to reload, hed be reloaded.
I was just throwing it out there as a possibility, because like i said, we are looking for ways to keep the gunslinger shooting, as it stands right now, a gunslinger cannot make full attack actions with his primary weapon.
Thats a problem. We are looking for ways to fix it.
Guns should be as realistic as bows are in this game.
IE, not.
sorceror, since when does exotic weapon proficiency also supply a craft skill?
bards or what ever class can take EWP all they want, if they so choose to shoot a gun, they can choose to get amateur gunslinger too if they like.
The issue at hand is that the gun slinger is a full bab type, and what they do is full attack, there has been an entire class created around a weapon that prevents them from full attacking.
as written they are prevented from doing so until level 11.
you are arguing for arguments sake with no basis of fact for your opinions.
one skill cannot give you another skill, craft cannot give you feats, or class features or create mechanics.
Guns should be as realistic as bows are in this game.
IE, not.
Well there's a good example actually, Zen Archer.
Flurry with arrows, Or the Arcane Archers 'shoot everyone in range once' ability.
neither of which can be explained, bruce willis or not.
Reloading fast enough to be able to shoot the gun in Full BAB is no different than either of those abilities that are already RAW.
Why doesn't the gunslinger do the obvious (and reasonably realistic) - be equipped with six to eight loaded pistols (and quick draw) and be set up for the first 4 rounds of a fight - then switch to slower shooting or alternative weapons
Why doesn't the gunslinger do the obvious (and reasonably realistic) - be equipped with six to eight loaded pistols (and quick draw) and be set up for the first 4 rounds of a fight - then switch to slower shooting or alternative weapons
Because this costs one zillion gold
okay, so 6th level 8 pistols:
start with two so: 6 x 1000gp= 6000gp
as a primary fighter want them magical: 8 x 2300gp + 1000gp (upgrading the two starters to masterwork)= 19400gp
total: 25,400gp
which is 1,900gp over the wealth by level for a 7th level character. and that doesn't include powder and shot, armor, healing, food, stat boosting item or indeed anything else.
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And then the level 1 gunslinger comes along with two free pistols and a bunch of Deeds and BOOM, your fighter is dead.the standard time to reload a musket was 3 shots a minute, current rules already blow that out of the water.
but as far as having a fighter who can occasionally shoot, a normal fighter could just take the exotic weapon proficiency, boom, done.
Just to respond to this part of your quote, the fighter won't be first level, if he can afford a gun, so the 1st level gunslinger, unless he crits, is going to be out of loaded weapons, while the fighter has a good shot at hitting him with the gunshot, then running up so the gunslinger provokes when he loads a gun OR fires a gun.
Ugly to be using the gun, then, huh. And the gunslinger won't be as good with his melee weapon, either.
First level Fighter:
14 Con
12 hit points, more than a single shot can remove without a crit.
Power Attack
Weapon Focus
Two-handed weapon
18 Str
So: +6 to hit, 1d10 + 6 damage or +5 to hit, 1d10 + 8 damage, not counting charging
Scale armor
AC 16, Touch AC 10
First level Gunslinger:
18 Dex, 14 Wis, 10 Con
10 hit points
Secret Stash Deed, so he has some ammo
Studded Leather
AC 17, 13 flat footed
So: +5 to hit within 20' against touch AC, +3 against normal AC from 20.1'-40", etc.
Single shot, as a -1, -5 for two shots, even against touch AC, sucks.
Both are assumed to not be Human, so no bonus feat. Not a big deal if either or both are, although the Gunslinger is probably in more trouble if the Fighter is human than the Fighter is if the Gunslinger is human...
Assuming that the Gunslinger goes first, and readies an attack when the Fighter hits the 20' range for best effect; the Fighter will still probably reach melee and get an attack off on the Gunslinger.
Damage:
Fighter takes about 4.5 on average, assuming a hit without a crit
Gunslinger takes 11.5 on average, assuming charging without power attack, and no crit
So, on average, you probably have a downed Gunslinger and an injured Fighter.
Once in melee, a Gunslinger needs Weapon Finesse and a finesse-able weapon, like a rapier, to make a good showing.
Why doesn't the gunslinger do the obvious (and reasonably realistic) - be equipped with six to eight loaded pistols (and quick draw) and be set up for the first 4 rounds of a fight - then switch to slower shooting or alternative weapons
se we've play tested that already (and it is what i was originally trying to do) but (ill say this one more time) the 6th level gunslinger with 8 pistols:
lets say he has one in each hand.
Round 1: bang, drop, bang, drop, bang (three pistols emptied)
Round 2: drop bang, bang drop, bang (three pistols emptied)
Round 3 drop bang, drop bang, ooops out of pistols don't get my last iterative attack there.
Now I have 8 pistols that need to be reloaded, or 8 move actions is 4 rounds!
So my primary weapon either A) is only useful for the first three rounds of combat, and then keeps me out of combat for 4 rounds reloading
or B)Forces me into melee combat, which the gunslinger as written doesn't really have much int he way of feats for.
So either way the character is suboptimal.
Everything the gunslinger did above could be done by a 6th level fighter with that many guns. and the same feats, plus the fighter would have more feats so he'd be better in melee combat once all the pistols were out of ammo.
so in order to keep a gunslinger as a character class anyone would play, he needs to be able to keep a gun firing. which is basically a reloading issue.
How many combats do you run that require your gunslinger to full-round before it is over? If the average combat requires the DPR characters to make more than 3 full-round attacks to finish, then you have a problem on your hand already.
I think you need to get over the need to be able to shoot at full BAB iterations all day long. Granted, this is possible as a level 11 gunslinger (signature deed (feat) on lightning reload deed); but there is no "realistic" requirement for that to exist as a norm for low-level gunslingers. Taking "catch off guard" allows the gunslinger to use his guns effectively as melee weapons. I haven't seen comment, but I assume weapon finesse applies just fine for pistols. Additionally use piranha strike (from Sargava companion) - or if necessary just plain power attack (with 13 strength) to increase the bonus to melee damage.
(20 pt buy)
Str 10
Dex 16 + 2 (racial) + levelups
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 10
(human) - catch off guard
level 1 - rapid reload
level 3 - lightning reload
level 4 - quick draw
level 5 - weapon finesse
level 7 - piranha strike
level 8 - throw anything
level 9 - improvised weapon mastery
level 11 - signature deed (lightning reload)
This isn't a crazy powerful build, but it plays well enough not to hold you back too much. I wouldn't underestimate the power of grif and lightning reload - grit is a renewable resource and I'd be surprised if you couldn't get 1 or 2 grit points back each encounter. Heck, just doing a "daring" deed is enough to recover grit. That is awesome for roleplaying.
While I dig the thought put into this reloading feature, I think at the end of the day, avoiding a 'realistic explanation' to the speed reloads is probably the best way of handling things. ;)
I absolutely agree that the RP elements of the class are what sells me, but iterative attacks are a encessity in lieu of larger single shot damage, which isn't happening- in fact, there are no deeds to even increase damage output, short of targeted chest shots.
I think the spirit of the class is awesome, but we're more or less sitting at the point of a nearly complete rewrite. None of the deeds are very exciting or overly useful comparative to the chance of misfire, the slow reloads taking you out of the action, the dead levels of "Brave and Tough" rewards, etc.
While I dig the thought put into this reloading feature, I think at the end of the day, avoiding a 'realistic explanation' to the speed reloads is probably the best way of handling things. ;)
I absolutely agree that the RP elements of the class are what sells me, but iterative attacks are a encessity in lieu of larger single shot damage, which isn't happening- in fact, there are no deeds to even increase damage output, short of targeted chest shots.
I think the spirit of the class is awesome, but we're more or less sitting at the point of a nearly complete rewrite. None of the deeds are very exciting or overly useful comparative to the chance of misfire, the slow reloads taking you out of the action, the dead levels of "Brave and Tough" rewards, etc.
IVe done some play tests and it seems, another additional 'fast reload' is probably redundant. The lightening reload could be explainable as these pouches in and of it's self.
I dont get to full attack much with my pistols, there seems to be alot of interuptions, but it its not uber terrible.However, other people may be ticked they cant full attack more often. but then again the gun slinger im using is only level 8 currently.
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LoreKeeper - pistols, at least the one available for the playtest, is a one-handed weapon, no mention in the write-up of being finesseable, so weapon finesse and piranha strike wono't be useful for that particular concept. Using them for a rapier, as a back-up weapon, not bad. Just not that good, either.
Glad to see someone is paying attention. It was an exaggeration, but the point was that Gunslingers are still better with guns than fighters could hope to be, which is the whole point of the class.
And my response, if you had been paying attention, is that Gunslingers are not as good, even with a gun, than a Fighter would be.
Yes, Gunslingers get Grit and Deeds. Fighters get real feats.
Consider a 1st level Gunslinger and a 1st level Fighter, assuming that the Fighter gains a "free" gun somehow:
Gunslinger:
1-2 feats, Rapid Reload is almost a requirement to be useful for very long in combat, Secret Stash Deed is also almost a requirement to keep your expenses down to a feasible level.
Fighter:
2-3 feats, go for a bow sequence for ranged equivalency, so Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot and either Weapon Focus, Rapid Shot, or Deadly Aim.
Either could go for Weapon Finesse, of course, and a rapier or some such...
Also, 3 attacks at 6th level? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Gunslinger only has 2 attacks at full BAB at 6th level.
I believe he was trying for a feat chain similar to an archer, who would have Rapid Shot for an extra attack by then. For a Gunslinger, going against touch AC, Rapid Shot should be a good choice. Except, of course, for the extreme cost of getting in all those extra attacks...
My Fighter archer build for PFS was able to get 2 attacks with a reasonable chance of hitting with his bow at 1st level. YMMV.
Overall, the GUnslinger is a good concept, but the current execution leaves much to be desired.
It is a full BaB class, so it should be able to make use of that with its primary weapon without having to give up its ability to do anything else.
High Dex is a strong requirement for this class.
Good Con is a good idea for any class that is likely to wind up in melee.
Good Str is a necessity for a Fighter variant in most circumstances.
High Wis is a strong requirement for this class.
Good Int would be needed to make up for the low skill points for this class, and add more options for Daring Acts.
Things that this class would need to be playable in spirit:
Acrobatics
Intimidate
Craft (Firearms)
Perception
A way to have a weapon that is useful more than once every other round of combat. This is, honestly, worse than Monster Summoning. At least with Monster Summoning you gain back the lost round of actions when you get your summoned monster.
Assuming point buy, and PFS level points, so 20 point build, you are probably going to be at an 1`8 in Dex and a 14 in Wis and Con; maybe. That gives a base of 2 grit points, and very few ways to reliably gain them back.
Crit? Sure, one time in 20 shots, you get a chance to regain a grit point.
Killing blow? Sure, as long as no one else in the party hits and kills the target in the meantime. Good luck past the lowest level encounters.
Daring Act? Sure, if it is legal in your campaign (not allowed in PFS, for example), and you can convince the GM that what you did was, indeed, a "daring act". If you succeed, since you have no better than a 50% chance of success to begin with, or it can never qualify to be a daring act.
Gotta say that, as written, a Gunslinger is going to have to be a 5th party member, since there is no way to have him fill any of the "standard" roles.
Big damage provider? Nope.
Healing? No way.
Tank? It is to laugh.
Scout? Another no.
Skill monkey? Riiiight. Not.
DPR is laughable, no ability to be a skill monkey, little in the way of support functions, no reliable battlefield control, no buffing or reliable debuffing...
Simply answer: guns are not bows. Bows don't have a risk of exploding if they heat up too much from too much rapid firing. Also note that Arcane Archer is by definition a magical class; so far Gunslingers have no magical abilities.
Glad to see someone is paying attention. It was an exaggeration, but the point was that Gunslingers are still better with guns than fighters could hope to be, which is the whole point of the class.
okay two things
1. bows run the risk of the string breaking if fired too quickly and dnd archers do it inhumanly quickly with no penalty.
2. As soon as the fighter can afford a gun he laughs at the gunslingers measly attempts to use them. Fighter can afford the feats to make his just as good and be miles better in melee so your statement is completely unfounded on a mechanical bases
1. bows run the risk of the string breaking if fired too quickly and dnd archers do it inhumanly quickly with no penalty.
There's a distinction here though - by the time that the first fire-arms started making their rounds, the bow had been pretty much perfected. You cannot compare the rate-of-breaking of a bow to that of a firearm at the time.
2. As soon as the fighter can afford a gun he laughs at the gunslingers measly attempts to use them. Fighter can afford the feats to make his just as good and be miles better in melee so your statement is completely unfounded on a mechanical bases
This is patently absurd. A fighter that specializes in gunslinging (using the appropriate weapon training group) will only at level 9 for the first time be able to pick a different weapon group (say light blades) - until then their melee output is essentially the same (given the same stats). Both can take weapon focus, greater weapon focus and weapon specialization in any weapon by that level (though for the sake of argument we'll focus those on gunslinging).
By level 9, the fighter will have a grand-total of 3(!) (three!) feats more than the gunslinger. And if he wants to make use of the cool deed feats, then he'll have to burn those 3 feats to get them (along with extra grit). And he'll always lag behind the deed/grit-potential of the gunslinger.
I would wager that people don't realize it due to the fact that most of the Deeds are flavor and neat, but don't provide true utility or true damage improvements. Sure, the fighter would need to spend some feats, but he can drop 3 feats into Grit, Lightning Reload, and Signature Deed, and will continue to get more Feats than the gunslinger past 11th level.
I won't break it down deed by deed here, but how many will ultimately be used on a regular basis? The answer is: not many, at all. When your 'defining class features' aren't something to be excited over, you have a problem at the core of the classes creation.
Both can take weapon focus, greater weapon focus and weapon specialization in any weapon by that level (though for the sake of argument we'll focus those on gunslinging).
as far as I can tell gunslinger can't take those
Both can take weapon focus, greater weapon focus and weapon specialization in any weapon by that level (though for the sake of argument we'll focus those on gunslinging).as far as I can tell gunslinger can't take those
Gunslinger is a fighter archetype... meaning that he is a fighter, with certain powers/abilities swapped out. Ie: Gun Training replaces Weapon Training and so forth. As a fighter archetype, any Fighter specific feats or items etc. can be used by the Gunslinger. If you've read the APG, Gunslinger is similar to the "Phalanx Fighter" or "Polearm Master" archetypes, albeit Slinger has many more specific abilities than any other archetype.
Last line under the 'Role' section of Gunslinger from the playtest PDF.
"The Gunslinger is an alternate class for the fighter core class."
That's pretty obvious. ;) I admit I didn't catch it the first read-through either, though.
Easy answer to reloading....
lvl 1 feat- rapid reload
lvl 3 feat- lightning reload
lvl 5 feat- signature deed (lightning reload)
boom free action to reload one barrel
wear light armor cause you have a high dex to start with
@NecromanticNate:
You must read things again. Signature deed is level 11+ only
Check with the Guiness Book of Records on the fastest loaded pistol.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Miculek
12 shots with a reload in the middle in under 3 seconds.
james thats not a black powder pistol they are talking about.
@NecromanticNate:
You must read things again. Signature deed is level 11+ only
ouch. yep I missed that one.... Sorry 'bout that.
ouch. yep I missed that one.... Sorry 'bout that.@NecromanticNate:
You must read things again. Signature deed is level 11+ only
actually... how about a feat that is level 7. Like the Fastest in Golarion or something... lightning reload grit cost is reduced to zero? I mean in my play test, I have to have it. I am playing a dual pistol Gunslinger corsair.
james thats not a black powder pistol they are talking about.I'm aware, but that is still quite fast (24 shots a round if expanded to 6 seconds.)
Hmm, maybe the whole solution is to make a +1 weapon enhancement "auto-reloading"?
While thats awfully fast, thats not all that super with cartridge rounds, it also completely depends on the format of the gun, are we talking an automatic? revolver? double action? single action? using speedloaders or magazines?
Certain machine guns can get 600 rounds a minute off, thats 10 rounds a second, so it would beat that record without needing to reload.
So it's all completely relative to the equipment that you are trying to use.
Thats also not a combat condition but a "for show" trick.
Like comparing the gunslinger to luke skywalker, it's not gonna work.
Pathfinder is not a spaghetti western!
I'm Sorry saying that the Gun Slinger isn't suppose to be from a spaghetti western is like trying to say the monk isn't suppose to be from a kung-fu movie, its just silly. People want to play this class because the first thing that will pop into most people's heads is the long gun slinger, the class is even called that.
The real problem everyone seems to be having with here is the reloading, which is an issue. I personally don't see why they just didn't try treating the gun in general like a heavy cross bow. No feasts, full round action to reload, rapid reload, to a move action so you can at least park and shoot every round, then expand on a crossbow mastery or even a gun mastery to make it a free action to reload.
The fact people are saying carry 6 guns or some other number above 2 has already been pointed out as costing a fortune, and again, equally as silly, if nothing else for the price of how the heck do I enchant these things. Ultimately if there were revolvers or something like it, ie higher capacity guns, this would be much less of a problem. I'm hoping that may be in the mysterious rules that Stephen mentioned over in this thread (second post)
As it stands right now, I personally can't see much reason to use a pistol character. I realize that the Touch AC means at mid range levels you will hit on almost every shot, but you need those shots to be able to take them.