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Is he simply dismissed or is he trapped where he stands?
Petrified: A petrified character has been turned to stone and is considered unconscious. If a petrified character cracks or breaks, but the broken pieces are joined with the body as he returns to flesh, he is unharmed. If the character's petrified body is incomplete when it returns to flesh, the body is likewise incomplete and there is some amount of permanent hit point loss and/or debilitation.
The eidolon remains until dismissed by the summoner (a standard action). If the eidolon is sent back to its home plane due to death, it cannot be summoned again until the following day. The eidolon cannot be sent back to its home plane by means of dispel magic, but spells such as dismissal and banishment work normally.
The eidolon is just stuck in place, since it's just unconscious. The only way for the eidolon to be unsummoned is for it to be dismissed, killed or have a certain set of spells cast on them.
When the summoner (not the eidolon) is rendered unconscious, the eidolon goes away.
If the summoner is unconscious, asleep, or killed, his eidolon is immediately banished.
Emphasis mine.
Is he simply dismissed or is he trapped where he stands?
He's either trapped and in need of a petrification cure, or he can be smashed, in which case he is dismissed for the day.
So if the Summoner dismisses the Eidolon, then re-summons it, does it come back unpetrified?
I'm not sure if shattering something petrified is technically considered slaying it or not.
I'd say so since, if any other creature were petrified and then smashed, there'd be no way for them to be restored to life other than being resurrected.
I'm not sure if shattering something petrified is technically considered slaying it or not.I'd say so since, if any other creature were petrified and then smashed, there'd be no way for them to be restored to life other than being resurrected.
The petrified creature is technically an object, which is not alive, and thus cannot die. If you shatter the petrified creature, You could repair the statue with spell like make whole or mend, then cure the petrification and they would be fine. If you cure the petrified creature while they are shattered, then they die.
I would think Make Whole would work to reassemble a previously petrified creature.
Perhaps... I'd be a matter for individual DMs to adjudicate and I can see it going either way. If a living person were broken down into chunks, she wouldn't automatically be restored to life if her body were repaired with make whole, so I'm uncertain that it should be allowed when she's petrified. There are a fair number of necromantic spells and effects that are axed on the notion of a creature being either alive, dead or undead and petrification is one of those effects that muddies the issue terribly.
For instance, while petrified, where is a character's soul? Has it moved on to the afterlife in the outer sphere or is it somehow held in suspension within the statue; a ghost in the stone so to speak? If the latter then when, if ever, is the soul released into the ether? Once the statue is shattered? Once it's eroded to dust? Never? If the latter does that mean that the soul is effectively doomed to non-existant oblivion unless someone magically intervenes? Seems like a pretty nasty side-effect for a 6th level transmutation spell. By this logic even true resurrection couldn't bring the creature back since its soul is forever trapped in a pile of dust in the wind.
Either way, can one cast speak with dead on the statue to converse with the character? Or, since the statue is made of stone, could one cast stone tell to speak with the character instead? If the latter, how aware of its surroundings might the creature's soul be while inhabiting the statue?
And, to your point, if one can cast make whole to repair a broken/smashed/pulverized statue might one be able to also cast stone shape to mold a creature into a different shape before restoring it to life with a stone to flesh spell?
There's a whole lot of WTF involved with petrification...
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If I were the DM, I would rule the eidolon stuck in petrified state (can't be dismissed, not dead, not alive - basically trapped). However, I would probably give the summoner some kind of empathic link to his trapped eidolon or some other empathic sense indicating that the eidolon is recoverable, perhaps with a special ritual or talisman that can be obtained after a short adventure (assuming that the normal magical remedies are unavailable).
If I wanted to be really mean (which I would, if the party had relatively easy access to cures for petrification) I would cause the link between Summoner and eidolon to feed back somehow, so that the summoner either suffers some torment related to the eidolon's imprisonment, or else the summoner suffers a slow, creeping petrification himself - say, losing 1 point of Dex every round/hour/day/whatever as he slowly turns to stone as well, finally becoming completely petrified at 0 Dex.
But then, I am an overly imaginative DM.
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I generally rule that shattering a petrified creature kills it instantly. Make Whole might restore the physical form, but stone to flesh at that point would merely return a dead body.
I prefer the idea that the creature is rendered an inanimate object - neither dead nor alive. Thus making them whole before a stone-to-flesh would return them alive.
Funny side effect: while they are petrified, a wizard could cast animate object upon them, turning them into a construct! (I would use the rules for an animated statue rather than a golem or something, and would not use the creature's original stats - it's an animated statue of the creature, not the creature itself!)
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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<lots of questions>
IMC... Here's how I'd answer it.
The character isn't dead, his state has changed. Destruction of the statue (i.e. breaking it to the point where it can't be reconstructed by less than a 6th level spell) should be enough to release the soul.
Re: Speak with dead. That's easy, the statue isn't dead.
Re:Stone tell
Spell's pretty explicit on what it says:
You gain the ability to speak with stones, which relate to you who or what has touched them as well as revealing what is covered or concealed behind or under them.
I might allow more, but RAW, the petrified character can't even tell you he was once not just a lawn ornament
Re: Stone Shape
DM's call, minor changes (shape of ears, eyes, erasing a mouth, might work. reshaping limbs, body height/length. width will get you a dead person. you're basically reshaping internal organs that as stone are a homogenus mass, they won't automatically shift to accomidate the new form.
Aside, in one of WotC's books for their former game system, there's a goblin who lost most of his face due to erosion after being petrified. In its place is a lot of scar tissue and pain.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I generally rule that shattering a petrified creature kills it instantly. Make Whole might restore the physical form, but stone to flesh at that point would merely return a dead body.I prefer the idea that the creature is rendered an inanimate object - neither dead nor alive. Thus making them whole before a stone-to-flesh would return them alive.
Funny side effect: while they are petrified, a wizard could cast animate object upon them, turning them into a construct! (I would use the rules for an animated statue rather than a golem or something, and would not use the creature's original stats - it's an animated statue of the creature, not the creature itself!)
Blackstone Gargant from WotC's Monster Manual II (closed content) actually did this.
Schrödinger's eidolon. It is neither alive nor dead.
The observer cannot know whether or not the eidolon remains alive, and consequently, cannot know whether the eidolon has been killed. Since we cannot know, the eidolon is both dead and alive according to quantum magics, in a superposition of states. It is only when we cast stone to flesh and learn the condition of the eidolon that the superposition is lost, and the eidolon becomes one or the other (dead or alive). This situation is sometimes called quantum indeterminacy or the observer's paradox: the observation or measurement itself affects an outcome, so that the outcome as such does not exist unless the measurement is made. (That is, there is no single outcome unless it is observed.)
:D
I think I would allow the Summoner to dismiss his Eidolon and start using his Summon Monster ability until he finds a cure. Summoning the Eidolon would only bring an inanimate statue to his side (good for cover). (;
Shattering the petrified Eidolon would only make things worst IMO.
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This brings up a question I've had from my Kingmaker game. Our Summoner in there was wondering what exactly an Eidolon retained when it got sent to its home place. If it has Bleed damage or a Poison effect, do those keep happening even when it's sent back? I presume if it had negative levels or was petrified, those would remain.
What if it dies from shadows doing enough str damage to put it at 0? Would it go back to the home plane and all the strength damage be gone? What about negative levels? Or negative levels specifically from a Wight?
This brings up a question I've had from my Kingmaker game. Our Summoner in there was wondering what exactly an Eidolon retained when it got sent to its home place. If it has Bleed damage or a Poison effect, do those keep happening even when it's sent back? I presume if it had negative levels or was petrified, those would remain.
What if it dies from shadows doing enough str damage to put it at 0? Would it go back to the home plane and all the strength damage be gone? What about negative levels? Or negative levels specifically from a Wight?
If the Eidolon is killed (by hit point damage or ability damage or level drain), he reforms himself with 50% hp 24h later. The problem with petrification is that the eidolon is not really "dead".
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I think I would allow the Summoner to dismiss his Eidolon and start using his Summon Monster ability until he finds a cure. Summoning the Eidolon would only bring an inanimate statue to his side (good for cover). (;
Shattering the petrified Eidolon would only make things worst IMO.
I agree. Essentially the character would do with his eidolon the same things you would do with any other member of the party turned to stone stone.
I agree. Essentially the character would do with his eidolon the same things you would do with any other member of the party turned to stone stone.I think I would allow the Summoner to dismiss his Eidolon and start using his Summon Monster ability until he finds a cure. Summoning the Eidolon would only bring an inanimate statue to his side (good for cover). (;
Shattering the petrified Eidolon would only make things worst IMO.
Now let us imagine that the eidolon becomes entrapped by a medium mud elemental, thereby gaining the entrapped condition. The eidolon retains the entangled condition for 1d10 minutes and then fails the second fort save and becomes helpless. Now the summoner dismisses the eidolon and the following round casts summon eidolon. Does the eidolon still have the helpless condition? It doesn't make sense for it to. Yet somehow it makes sense for it to remain petrified.
There aren't any rules on this. If we rule that the eidolon loses all conditions when it is dismissed then it the eidolon should not be petrified after it gets resummoned. This interpretation is supported by some of the class fluff.
The eidolon forms a link with the summoner, who, forever after, summons an aspect of the same creature
This means that the link that the summoner forms is not with the exact creature that comes down and mows down BBEGs. It is rather that when the summoner summons the eidolon, the eidolon sends down an aspect of itself. It does not make sense for the eidolon to decide to send down a petrified aspect of itself.
The not returning with full HP's can be explained by the fact that creating a new aspect can possibly be quite taxing on the eidolon as implied by the fact that whenever the eidolon dies it takes a full 24 hours until it can be summoned again. Interpreting why gear comes back after it dies or is petrified is trickier other than the eidolon not really being interested in the gear.
I've got a reasonably consistent interpretation of how it works, which is the best that we can do without any rules.
I would say it is stuck as a statue until destroyed, stone to flesh, or break enchantment was used on it.
There are very few spells, that trap a creature like this. I would like to keep this special aspect of the flesh to stone spell intact.
I would say it is stuck as a statue until destroyed, stone to flesh, or break enchantment was used on it.
There are very few spells, that trap a creature like this. I would like to keep this special aspect of the flesh to stone spell intact.
Flesh to Stone
The subject, along with all its carried gear, turns into a mindless, inert statue. If the statue resulting from this spell is broken or damaged, the subject (if ever returned to its original state) has similar damage or deformities. The creature is not dead, but it does not seem to be alive either when viewed with spells such as deathwatch.
Only creatures made of flesh are affected by this spell.
According to this, destroying or breaking the statue wouldn't help.
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Now let us imagine that the eidolon becomes entrapped by a medium mud elemental, thereby gaining the entrapped condition. The eidolon retains the entangled condition for 1d10 minutes and then fails the second fort save and becomes helpless. Now the summoner dismisses the eidolon and the following round casts summon eidolon. Does the eidolon still have the helpless condition? It doesn't make sense for it to. Yet somehow it makes sense for it to remain petrified.
Much like any other creature:
It remains helpless as long as it's trapped in the mud elemental.
It remains petrified until you cast stone to flesh or have the effect dispelled.
Not that hard.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I agree with other posters here: there are no Rules As Written on this. What follows is my interpretation:
The summoner has made a pact with some enormous, eternal, extraplanar entity that permits the mortal to summon a small facet of the being and call it an eidolon. If the eidolon dies, the entity will not respond to the Summoner for a single day, perhaps as punishment.
If some aspect of the entity were to get petrified, I wouldn't judge that as worth a greater penalty against the mortal. At my table, once the summoner loses consciousness, his petrified eidolon goes home. After a period of 24 hours, the summoner can call forth a repaired eidolon with half its maximum hit points.
I think there is a pretty clear line of logical RAI that can be gleened from how the rules stack up against each other (again this is only my slanted view at it). Once stone, you must find a way to reverse said stone to awaken the poor petrified beastie. Otherwise the Summoner has "Summon Statue." That is how I would broker the ruling at my table.
See I would just worry that somehow my players would think of a clever way to turn the Eidolon into something of a trojan horse and defeat my "best laid plans" at destroying them for the evening. I would then be required to buy dinner for them in recompense for outwitting me cleanly.
This is one of the reasons I am a fan of Flesh to Stone over some other save-r-suck spells. Eventually players only lose a round or two before someone solves the problem but when petrification begins to initially creep into the game it is quite powerful.
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I agree with other posters here: there are no Rules As Written on this. What follows is my interpretation:
The summoner has made a pact with some enormous, eternal, extraplanar entity that permits the mortal to summon a small facet of the being and call it an eidolon. If the eidolon dies, the entity will not respond to the Summoner for a single day, perhaps as punishment.
If some aspect of the entity were to get petrified, I wouldn't judge that as worth a greater penalty against the mortal. At my table, once the summoner loses consciousness, his petrified eidolon goes home. After a period of 24 hours, the summoner can call forth a repaired eidolon with half its maximum hit points.
For some reason I thought there was a rule that talked about conditions not being cleared when the eidolon was sent back. Maybe it was a forum post. Regardless it appears the text is pretty silent on the issue.
For some reason I thought there was a rule that talked about conditions not being cleared when the eidolon was sent back. Maybe it was a forum post. Regardless it appears the text is pretty silent on the issue.I agree with other posters here: there are no Rules As Written on this. What follows is my interpretation:
The summoner has made a pact with some enormous, eternal, extraplanar entity that permits the mortal to summon a small facet of the being and call it an eidolon. If the eidolon dies, the entity will not respond to the Summoner for a single day, perhaps as punishment.
If some aspect of the entity were to get petrified, I wouldn't judge that as worth a greater penalty against the mortal. At my table, once the summoner loses consciousness, his petrified eidolon goes home. After a period of 24 hours, the summoner can call forth a repaired eidolon with half its maximum hit points.
Now TECHNICALLY dead qualifies as a condition and since a dead eidolon returns... well not dead we do have precedent.