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I have been throwing around some idea's on a stealth based paladin, I don't want to say it but it would be like batman. He would be a dex based dual wielding stealth paladin. I have a build, I just don't know how effective it will be. Any thoughts? I am thinking half-elf.
I don't want to play an optimized character, just an effective one. You guys have an opinion?
I have been throwing around some idea's on a stealth based paladin, I don't want to say it but it would be like batman. He would be a dex based dual wielding stealth paladin. I have a build, I just don't know how effective it will be. Any thoughts? I am thinking half-elf.
I don't want to play an optimized character, just an effective one. You guys have an opinion?
Toss your build up here. I am certain the good folks here can give you some insightful advice. Some of it you may even find useful :P
Greg
If you have access to it, you could try a CG Paladin of Freedom from Unearthed Arcana, just think of it as an archtype(and makes sense for a stealthy Paladin), although mechanically very little changes from the standard class. Other than that the only other thing I can think to contribute is with a good enough concept/backstory, talk your DM into letting you create a Trait that gives you a +1 to Stealth and makes it a class skill.
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Stealth + Archer pally can be OK (even good), since they are dex-heavy and archery is a good pally skill (and eventually you'd get Mithril Shirt anyway). But right now you are taking two of the weakest elements of the game (2-weapon fighting, stealth) and combining them, making you a hyper-MAD, feat intensive, character with minimum damage output.
Whatever you choose to go with take Skill Focus Stealth as it will help overcome any issues with armor and the like.
One thing to conisder is that a Paladin is %70 roleplay 30% class abilites
a paladin is really made through thier actions or thier restricted actions
you could just as easily play a rogue class that lives by the paladin code and is LG
Also keep in mind that paly's normally suck at stealth becuase of armor and you can get away with light armor as long as you got a decent Dex scorce.
The other option is to pickup a level or two of cleric for some self buffing spells and at will domain abilites to beef up your lower AC. Or even domain abilites to help with stealth.
the travel domain in particular for Dimension door or the trickery subdomain that grants 10ft immediate teleport shifts might give you the flavour while still being true to a paladin build since paladin and cleric mesh quite well.
Another option is to look at Oracle for a level dip for the same reason as cleric the benefit being oracle is CHA based casting so it will tie in with your CHA based paly, it also has some level 1 abilites from mysteries that can either grant stuff to help you stealth or stuff to help your AC in lighter armor.
the archtypes won't really help much
also don't be afriad to throw in fighter or ranger levels if you find your comming up short on feats to handel two weapon fighting. Not optimised but ensures your effective.
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Needing at worst 4 stats(Dex, Cha, Str and Con and you can almost forget Con) is not "hyper-MAD" by any stretch. With a good point buy, a starting Dex of 16, some Str and some Cha, you're all set. It's a full-bab class, which gets attack bonuses, great saves and divine spellcasting, srsly.
That said, I would still avoid TWF, since it has a huge feat investment. Combat Reflexes + a combat maneuver you spam with Smite Evil is one possibility, but an archer is the easiest thing to play and win with here.
If you don't like the idea of a batman with a bow, throwing weapons are not half-bad, but require that dreaded TWF to get the most out of them.
TWFing as a paladin is very hard because of the number of feats and the high dexterity you need to make it work. It can pay off when you are smiting, but otherwise it struggles.
Best bet is to drop strength for dexterity, charisma and intelligence in that order. Intelligence for the skills, charisma for all your features, and dexterity to TWF. Strength and Constitution need to be as high as you can get them under those provisos, but bear in mind you will be relying on number of hits and smite to deal your damage (Double Slice is a feat you can leave off for later).
You can also do a paladin finesse fighter, if you want to go duelist (it can work and synergises quite well), or a paladin/rogue.
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Needing at worst 4 stats(Dex, Cha, Str and Con and you can almost forget Con) is not "hyper-MAD" by any stretch. With a good point buy, a starting Dex of 16, some Str and some Cha, you're all set. It's a full-bab class, which gets attack bonuses, great saves and divine spellcasting, srsly.
That said, I would still avoid TWF, since it has a huge feat investment. Combat Reflexes + a combat maneuver you spam with Smite Evil is one possibility, but an archer is the easiest thing to play and win with here.
If you don't like the idea of a batman with a bow, throwing weapons are not half-bad, but require that dreaded TWF to get the most out of them.
It's not the 4 stats... I can deal with that. It's 4 stats all of which need to be fairly high to be at all effective.
Dex has to be 17 by level 6, so needs to start at 16. To effectively do damage and avoid having to take Weapon Finess you need a 16 strength. Pally bonus to Cha would encourage 14 or greater there; you could argue this off but it is one of their best class features (and feeds lay on hands too). And let's finish off with the need for at least 12 con, with 14 being ideal.
If you dump Int you're looking at a skill problem (you can be good at stealth and nothing else), though Human + using your "Favored Class" CAN get you up to 3 with a 7 int. Wis if dumped eliminates one of the better uses of stealth (perception, also a non-class skill), but you can overcome this with skill points eventually.
So bottom line, you need LOTS of points in LOTS of attributes, and your gain is what? The arguments against stealth could make a book (scent/tremorstuff, every creature in the Bestiary seems to have perception as a class skill, etc)... but at times it can be useful. But the Batman character? Only if you are TEAM batman does that work at all; otherwise you try to sneak around to... what? What's the goal of this build?
Roleplay, I assume. That is the most important goal of all. Honestly, with 25 point buy for a 2 weapon paladin I would go with the following:
Str 14
Dex 16
Con 10
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 16
Stat bonus to str or dex, probably str. You could probably afford a lower wisdom with your racial bonus to perception and your Cha bonus to saves, but remember to roleplay it! Human would be better from a power gamer point of view for the feat, but lets face it, humans are boring. For your other favored class (assuming you multiclass) I would suggest fighter (bonus feats, Full BAB/HP), Ranger (stealth, Full BAB, Some bonus feats), or cleric (Trickery domain for stealth (odd for a paladin who must act with honor), average BAB, spells for buffing).
Two weapon fighting feats, and weapon finesse if you go more Dex. Favored class bonus should go to HP, Adaptability for stealth (assuming half elf).
Just my 2 cents.
Needing at worst 4 stats(Dex, Cha, Str and Con and you can almost forget Con) is not "hyper-MAD" by any stretch. With a good point buy, a starting Dex of 16, some Str and some Cha, you're all set. It's a full-bab class, which gets attack bonuses, great saves and divine spellcasting, srsly.
That said, I would still avoid TWF, since it has a huge feat investment. Combat Reflexes + a combat maneuver you spam with Smite Evil is one possibility, but an archer is the easiest thing to play and win with here.
If you don't like the idea of a batman with a bow, throwing weapons are not half-bad, but require that dreaded TWF to get the most out of them.
Although a bow isn't batman a crossbow is especially if your using bolts with effects on them to entangle foes and the like. Or even more iconic smoke bolts to dissapear behind
not to mention setting up hooks and ropes to swing around on , a pumped acro score will help that
acutally in generall a level dip in rogue isn't half a bad idea either just to get all the relevant class skills although ranger covers many of them as well.
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I like the challenge of playing a paladin as a stealth class. Here is the character...
Adrius
LG Half-Elf Paladin 1
20 point buy
Str 14 +2
Dex 16 +3 (+2 half-elf)
Con 13 +1
Int 10 +0
Wis 10 +0
Cha 15 +2
Initiative +3
BAB 1
Speed 30
HP 12
CMB 3 (2Str, 1BAB)
CMD 16 (2Str, 3Dex, 1BAB, 10)
AC 16(10+3armor+3Dex)
Elven Curve Blade +4 1d10+3
Longbow +4 1D8
Race: Ancestral Arm (Elven Curve Blade)
Traits: Highlander, Armor Expert
Feats: Weapon finesse
Class: Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 1/day
Skills(ACP 0): Stealth +8, Diplomacy +7
Gear:Studded Leather (+3A, +5D, 1ACP, 30', 20#), Longbow, Elven Curve Blade.
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"I like the challenge of playing a paladin as a stealth class" I meant this as the reason why I wouldn't choose an Inquistor. I do like Inquistors, though. Here is the character again just a little more advanced...
Adrius
LG Half-Elf Paladin 5
20 point buy
Str 14 +2
Dex 16 +3 (+2 half-elf)
Con 13 +1
Int 10 +0
Wis 10 +0
Cha 16 +2 (+1 level 4)
AC= 19(10+6Armor+3Dex)
Fort 9(4Base, 1Ability, 3charisma, 1 Resistance)
Ref 8(1B, 3A, 3Cha, 1R)
Will 8(4B, 3Cha, 1R)
Initiative +3
BAB 5
Speed 30
HP 50
CMB 7 (2Str, 5BAB)
CMD 20 (2Str, 3Dex, 5BAB, 10)
+1 Elven Curve Blade +9 1d10+4
+1 Longbow +9 1D8+1
Race: Ancestral Arm (Elven Curve Blade)
Traits: Highlander, Armor Expert
Feats: Weapon finesse, Deadly Aim, Point Blank Shot, Percise Shot
Class: Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 2/day, Divine Grace, Lay on Hands 5/day 2D6, Aura of Courage, Divine Health, Mercy (Fatigue), Channel positivie Energy, Weapon Bond
Skills(ACP 0): Stealth +12, Diplomacy +11
Gear: Mithril Breastplate (+6A, +5D, 1ACP, 30', 15#), +1 Composite 1 Longbow, +1 Elven Curve Blade, Cloak of Resistance +1.
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I ran a stealth based paladin who's first three levels were unchained rogue, with his level 1 class ability weapon finesse and level 3 finesse weapon(elven curve blade) he applied dexterity to both attack and damage. Wearing light armor from studded leather up to celestial armor his dex bonus made up the difference. After starting down the paladin line I focused on attack feats like power attack, cleave/greater cleave, and improved critical to maximize damage. Once I had the extra gold a pair of sniper goggles were added allowing my 2d6 sneak attack damage with a bow at max range using a frost composite longbow of distance and deliquescent gloves allowed me to drop enemies at 220 feet undetected.
"Yessss.... this necro is such a fine addition to the army of the undead... all shall be perfected through undeath... MUAHAHAHAHAHA"