I've read in other threads that dimension door is a short range, precise teleport spell.
My quesion is, do you only control location, or can you control orientation as well? (per spell: You always arrive at exactly the spot desired)
The example would be you are trying to get behind an enemy... so if you dimension doored behind the enemy(quote: whether by simply visualizing the area or by stating direction)by visualizing facing his back, does that mean you can appear facing his back irrelevant of your prior orientation?
To take it a step further and put it into perspective - I'm building a character that can dimension door, but has weak damage output. The party has heavy tanks. Per dimension door I can take along other willing creatures. I'm trying to figure out if I have to do positioning before using dimension door or if the spell allows this positioning (putting the tank behind the enemy facing the enemy's back and me behind the tank).
A=me
F=fighter
E=enemy
a=me after dimension door
f=fighter after dimension door
< or > indicates orientations
A>F>...........<E (before dimension door)
...............<E<f<a (after dimension door)
As far as I can figure out, any creature brought with you is not prevented from acting.. "After using this spell, you can't take any other actions until your next turn" They didn't use the spell, so their concentration isn't required to complete the teleportation. At the latest they'd act on their next turn, optimally they could have a readied action (strike at the enemy when he appears in front of you) which would see no different than being stationary and waiting for a blinking enemy to appear before you with a readied action.
Facing is irrelevant in Pathfinder. You don't have a "front" or "back" on the grid. You can act or react to things in any direction.
If you DD a Fighter, as soon as his turn comes round, it's his next turn, so he can act. If he has a readied action, then when it goes of, that's his next turn and he can act. The only thing this would affect would be AoOs provoked after the DD, but before the Fighter's turn. I'm inclined to say that the fighter still can't act until his turn due to the DD.
The only thing this would affect would be AoOs provoked after the DD, but before the Fighter's turn. I'm inclined to say that the fighter still can't act until his turn due to the DD.
If the Fighter hasn´t acted yet/is flat footed (without Combat Reflexes) he couldn´t take AoO´s. If he´s already in normal combat, I don´t see any reason why he couldn´t take AoO´s from his new position, the fact he was DD´d isn´t much different then if he was Bullrushed or thrown into his new position... DD isn´t the important factor here, but whether the Fighter can take AoO´s or not, and DD doesn´t cause the passengers to be flat-footed or lose Readied Actions, etc, until their next turn.
Part of it isn't just facing, it's positioning. If I'm east of the fighter before the dimension door, does that mean I end up east after, or can I rotate the orientation of the group so that I end up west of the fighter(or south etc) after?
And facing is relevant, especially if it involves a rogue sneaking up and determining if they get sneak attacks.
The only thing this would affect would be AoOs provoked after the DD, but before the Fighter's turn. I'm inclined to say that the fighter still can't act until his turn due to the DD.If the Fighter hasn´t acted yet/is flat footed (without Combat Reflexes) he couldn´t take AoO´s. If he´s already in normal combat, I don´t see any reason why he couldn´t take AoO´s from his new position, the fact he was DD´d isn´t much different then if he was Bullrushed or thrown into his new position... DD isn´t the important factor here, but whether the Fighter can take AoO´s or not, and DD doesn´t cause the passengers to be flat-footed or lose Readied Actions, etc, until their next turn.
Now that I think about it, AoOs aren't really actions, so there's no reason he'd lose them. What about taking immediate, or free actions? Those are definitely actions.
Dimension Door is quite different from a Bullrush. If I bullrush a guy, I can use the rest of my turn however I want. If I cast Dimension Door, I can't take anymore actions. The question is: Is that restriction because of the casting, or because of being transported?I'm inclined to think the latter because even if you use a spell trigger ore use-activated item you still can't take actions. If a Wizard casts a quickened Dimension Door he still can't act.
Part of it isn't just facing, it's positioning. If I'm east of the fighter before the dimension door, does that mean I end up east after, or can I rotate the orientation of the group so that I end up west of the fighter(or south etc) after?
And facing is relevant, especially if it involves a rogue sneaking up and determining if they get sneak attacks.
Well, Dimension Door always takes you to "exactly the spot you desire." I would assume that includes everyone you take with you, to "exactly the spot you desire." At least, I don't see anything that would contradict that.
Well, Dimension Door always takes you to "exactly the spot you desire." I would assume that includes everyone you take with you, to "exactly the spot you desire." At least, I don't see anything that would contradict that.
So that would mean anyone I take with me ends up in the exact spot I desire them to be, provided we are still touching afterwards? It seems the spell is a little vague there, so 'taking someone with me' doesn't specify what degree of control over the exit point I'd have. If you think of the Star Trek teleporters people get moved as a group with no shuffling around.
I guess an alternate approach to the question is - if you teleport from your bedroom to the living room sofa, do you have enough control of the spell that you end up facing the TV (if you so desired) irrelevant of what direction you were facing before the teleport?
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To many rules, good luck.
Check out this Bard Spell when you are planning this way. It implies to me that dimminsion door does NOT give the level of detial the above items provide.
Also note that Dimension Door requires physical contact... so you could assume that that exact same physical contact must be maitained when you arrive on site.
Taking these two descriptions together I would say that some of what you are trying with DD would have to be set up BEFORE you cast the spell where Bard's Escape allows strategic positioning on the fly.
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If the Fighter [is] already in normal combat, I don´t see any reason why he couldn´t take AoO´s from his new position... DD doesn´t cause the passengers to be flat-footed or lose Readied Actions, etc, until their next turn.Now that I think about it, AoOs aren't really actions, so there's no reason he'd [anybody transported, including Caster]lose them. What about taking immediate, or free actions? Those are definitely actions.
[...] The question is: Is that restriction because of the casting, or because of being transported?
I'm inclined to think the latter because even if you use a spell trigger ore use-activated item you still can't take actions.
If a Wizard casts a quickened Dimension Door he still can't act.
OK, that seems to be the only point where we differ. Whether using a wand or staff or other item with usages/day, the activator would still count as the `caster`, so I don`t think that distinction is relevant... The spell clearly spells out one effect (or side-effect) that applies to ´the caster´, not ´the transported characters´. Don`t get me wrong, I think it`s totally REASONABLE *if* passengers were similarly affected, but the spell RAW seems clear to me, the CASTER is so affected and passengers are not.
Part of it isn't just facing, it's positioning. If I'm east of the fighter before the dimension door, does that mean I end up east after, or can I rotate the orientation of the group so that I end up west of the fighter(or south etc) after?
And facing is relevant, especially if it involves a rogue sneaking up and determining if they get sneak attacks.
OK, facing isn`t relevant to Sneak Attack. Facing has been written out of every mechanic you might expect it to be relevant to, since 3rd Edition. If you are Sneak Attacking somebody you need to have them Flanked or Flat-Footed, which may involve succeeding on a Stealth Check vs. Perception along with finding Concealment, or at least winning an Init check. Facing has NOTHING to do with it.
That said, I think what you`re suggesting IS eminently reasonable. The spell doesn`t spell out that you can ´rotate´ the whole of yourself and touched passengers, but it doesn`t rule it out per se. The aspect of ´I personally will FACE a different direction after DD then before´ is irrelevant for every other game mechanical effect, but I don`t see anything in the spell forcing you to maintain the passengers´ (and your own) alignment in a N-S/E-W grid. It`s just that this is confusing because for every other effect in the game, facing doesn`t have an effect. I would like to hear Paizo feedback on this one, but for the meantime I say go for it, and this is definitely allowed by me.
...I don`t think that Bard spell has much relevance here, he`s not trying to change the positioning of transported characters relative to each other (which the Bard spell allows arbitrary adjustment of), but rotating the ORIENTATION of the transported group AS A WHOLE to the rest of the battle field. The exact form of physical contact is maintained, e.g. a ´T` shape with the Caster in the center can be ´rotated´ and stil maintain the same exact form and internal relationship.
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What happens if the caster land correctly, but the persons bring with him land on a solid object.
I my case, the caster land right on the spot, but both PC move along landed on a spot occupy by undetected demons. I moved both of them to a random open space separately.
If you arrive in a place that is already occupied by a solid body, you and each creature traveling with you take 1d6 points of damage and are shunted to a random open space on a suitable surface within 100 feet of the intended location.
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I have a Warlock in 3.5 who can DD at will (Flee The Scene invocation).
I've always played it the the positions of all those transported relative to each other cannot change, and that the shape they make cannot rotate with repect to the grid or compass direction. It never occurred to me that I could alter either, and further thought on how it works hasn't changed my mind. Nor has reading the RAW, which seems to be silent on the issue.
It is not in the spell description so there is no rule to cover it. Just do what you think is right.
I have generally ruled that as long as everyone is in the same position that they were relative to those traveling via Dimension Door, then you may rotate on an axis as much as you want. So you could not have the fighter who was to my left and the rogue who was to my right both be on my left. However, I could rotate on an axis so the fighter is now on my right and the rogue can be on my left.
The spell does not address the issue. As a GM I would allow the group to rotate, but stay in the same formation. Until there is something official, that makes the most sense to me, but I can see an argument either way.
On a related note, what happens if you're falling off a cliff and you cast dim door to take yourself back to the top again? Can you dump the momentum you've gained from the fall and arrive at zero velocity and a smug smile on your face, or do you arrive at the top of the cliff and take damage for the distance you had fallen before casting the spell?
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1) you can't cast while falling less than 500 feet or immediate action
2) if you can teleport, you just change your location, not your speed, so same damage
A character cannot cast a spell while falling, unless the fall is greater than 500 feet or the spell is an immediate action, such as feather fall. Casting a spell while falling requires a concentration check with a DC equal to 20 + the spell's level. Casting teleport or a similar spell while falling does not end your momentum, it just changes your location, meaning that you still take falling damage, even if you arrive atop a solid surface.
1) you can't cast while falling less than 500 feet or immediate action
2) if you can teleport, you just change your location, not your speed, so same damageA character cannot cast a spell while falling, unless the fall is greater than 500 feet or the spell is an immediate action, such as feather fall. Casting a spell while falling requires a concentration check with a DC equal to 20 + the spell's level. Casting teleport or a similar spell while falling does not end your momentum, it just changes your location, meaning that you still take falling damage, even if you arrive atop a solid surface.
Thanks. I wonder how they deal with orbital velocity on a long teleport? The speed of the earth at the equator is about 1669.8 km/h.
For other latitudes...
10° - 1021.7837 mph (1644.4 km/h)
20° - 974.9747 mph (1569.1 km/h)
30° - 898.54154 mph (1446.1 km/h)
40° - 794.80665 mph (1279.1 km/h)
50° - 666.92197 mph (1073.3 km/h)
60° - 518.7732 mph (834.9 km/h)
70° - 354.86177 mph (571.1 km/h)
80° - 180.16804 mph (289.95 km/h)
If you teleport from the equator to the north pole you better get those feet to twinkling!
(Just kidding by the way. This is just a game and I'm not really trying to bring orbital mechanics math into it )
I wouldn't rule against the orientation change either, I mean why not, it's magic, right?
HOWEVER, based on the bolded wording:
You instantly transfer yourself from your current location to any other spot within range. You always arrive at exactly the spot desired—whether by simply visualizing the area or by stating direction. After using this spell, you can't take any other actions until your next turn. You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn't exceed your maximum load. You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load) or its equivalent per three caster levels. A Large creature counts as two Medium creatures, a Huge creature counts as two Large creatures, and so forth. All creatures to be transported must be in contact with one another, and at least one of those creatures must be in contact with you.
I would always rule that anyone who gets the benefit of the spell loses all of their actions until their next turn. Because the wording specifically says after using and not after casting.
It says, 'after using this spell, you can't...'
There is a FAQ which specifically says that this restriction is only for the caster, not his passengers.
You can be plural as well as singular. If there's a FAQ then I guess there is the answer you're looking for. I'll continue to rule it my way in my games.
I wouldn't rule against the orientation change either, I mean why not, it's magic, right?
HOWEVER, based on the bolded wording:
You instantly transfer yourself from your current location to any other spot within range. You always arrive at exactly the spot desired—whether by simply visualizing the area or by stating direction. After using this spell, you can't take any other actions until your next turn. You can bring along objects as long as their weight doesn't exceed your maximum load. You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying gear or objects up to its maximum load) or its equivalent per three caster levels. A Large creature counts as two Medium creatures, a Huge creature counts as two Large creatures, and so forth. All creatures to be transported must be in contact with one another, and at least one of those creatures must be in contact with you.
I would always rule that anyone who gets the benefit of the spell loses all of their actions until their next turn. Because the wording specifically says after using and not after casting.
The person being teleported is not using the spell, anymore than someone being healed is not using a cure spell.
Sure, they are affected by the spell, but being affected by and using are not the same thing.The caster is the user.
If a spell has multiple versions, you choose which version to use when you cast it. You don't have to prepare (or learn, in the case of a bard or sorcerer) a specific version of the spell....Dispel Magic as a Counterspell: You can usually use dispel magic to counterspell another spell being cast without needing to identify the spell being cast. Dispel magic doesn't always work as a counterspell (see the spell description).
The spell descriptions are also speaking to the caster so when DD says you that is who it is referring to.
The spell also says:
Target you and touched objects or other touched willing creatures
That is specifically saying you(the caster) and other creatures. That means the other creatures are not you.
You can be plural as well as singular. If there's a FAQ then I guess there is the answer you're looking for. I'll continue to rule it my way in my games.It says, 'after using this spell, you can't...'
There is a FAQ which specifically says that this restriction is only for the caster, not his passengers.
You may rule it however you wish in your games. The main reason we corrected you was because this is the rules forum, and you are presenting a house rule.
Someone may have taken it as the actual rule. We just stepped in to clarify what the rule actually is.
You can be plural as well as singular. If there's a FAQ then I guess there is the answer you're looking for. I'll continue to rule it my way in my games.It says, 'after using this spell, you can't...'
There is a FAQ which specifically says that this restriction is only for the caster, not his passengers.
You may rule it however you wish in your games. The main reason we corrected you was because this is the rules forum, and you are presenting a house rule.
Someone may have taken it as the actual rule. We just stepped in to clarify what the rule actually is.
Pardon, I didn't notice which category this was in.
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In the interests of full disclosure:-
Dimension Door: If the caster brings other creatures with him when he casts the spell, are the passengers unable to take any other actions until their next turn, or is that just for the caster?
That restriction only applies to the caster.—Sean K Reynolds, 03/15/11