Trying to make a summoner who is more of a traditional summoner.
Just relying on the summoner monster list of spells and using summon monster SLA over bringing out the eidolon.
However I'm wondering if a wiz/sorc would be a better choice or even a cleric/oracle.
Obviously the summoner has the benefit of 5-6 free SLA summons which last several minutes vs all the other classes that are limited to rounds for summons.
I was also consideing using the summon monster to better utilise the pit spells having summoned creature bullrush or drag enemies into pits and grapple and pin them inside the pits.
apart from Augment summon any other summon helping feats or abilites from other classes worth looking at ?
Trying to make a summoner who is more of a traditional summoner.
Just relying on the summoner monster list of spells and using summon monster SLA over bringing out the eidolon.
However I'm wondering if a wiz/sorc would be a better choice or even a cleric/oracle.
Obviously the summoner has the benefit of 5-6 free SLA summons which last several minutes vs all the other classes that are limited to rounds for summons.
I was also consideing using the summon monster to better utilise the pit spells having summoned creature bullrush or drag enemies into pits and grapple and pin them inside the pits.
apart from Augment summon any other summon helping feats or abilites from other classes worth looking at ?
If you are not going to use an eidolon, Summoner might not be your best choice. Sure, they get access to a few spells a bit early, but the real downfall is that their SLA can't stack. You can't have 2-4 summons going at the same time. If you want to use an eidolon as a backup summon, such as using the summon eidolon spell, that could be fun as your "ace in the hole". Or pick the summon monster spells when they come available with your normal spells. This would allow you to stack up your summons with some lower level ones.
If you Celestial or Abyssal Sorcerers can get some free DR to their summons, which is kinda nice. The wizard Summoners get a longer summoning, and a couple extra rounds might be nice in the beginning.
I think another caster works better for summoners if you don't want the eidelon, mostly because of the things you would gain from the other classes. Wiz/Sorc (or even cleric kind of) works fairly well if you just want to be a guy who summons a lot crap.
I had looked at the summoner and thought of making the eidelon more of a consultant. Giving him abilities that focus on skills, stealth and knowledge (possibly serving as a mount at times) more than being a big bad ass fighter.
This would still give you a decent amount of buff spells, regular summons and the summon monster as a standard action ability (which is highly underrated).
But it's all about flavor, the above is only if you are sure you want to play the Summoner class. Conjurer's have always been decently strong in D&D and continue to be in Pathfinder. Wizard/sorc is a good choice.
*Personally, i like the idea of a cleric summoner. You can do some nasty tricks with Sanctuary or even grosser with the aura from the Glory domain if you plan it well. (letting the monsters fight while you heal and buff, you're not directly attacking so sanctuary stays active). This also gives you access to ton of healing spells, some utility spells and even a couple of damage spells (summoning a wall of blades or something). It works pretty well, i know from experience. Food for thought. *
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You might consider using the summoner and leaving the eidolon as just another summons spell for use with the summon eidolon spell.
Then you can use it with your SLA and it works with augment summoning.
Another nice option is the nature Oracle who can get access to both summon natures ally and summon monster spells. Also, oracle can get a pretty tough horse as an animal companion.
You might consider using the summoner and leaving the eidolon as just another summons spell for use with the summon eidolon spell.
Then you can use it with your SLA and it works with augment summoning.
Another nice option is the nature Oracle who can get access to both summon natures ally and summon monster spells. Also, oracle can get a pretty tough horse as an animal companion.
ah summon eidolon thats exactly the spell I was looking for so you can make good use of the SLA without it detracting from a good chunk of your class bonuses.
thanks Ogre
I'm still firmly in the Wizard/Sorc camp for Pokemaster summoners, especially if you can get teh DM to let you use the variant from Unearthed Arcana for Standard action summons. I played Kobold Wizzy up to 10th level using this build, and it was epic.
The third party Celestial Commander is a summoner archetype that does essentially what you seem to want.
As does the Master Summoner, except they get a nerfed, half strenght eidolon. The weaker eidelon can be made OK for stealth or skills.
The number and increased power of the summoners monster summoning SLA make it very hard for other spell casters compete as a summoner per se.
The full casters can do most or all other things a caster can do better, most obviously having more and higher level spells, but when it comes to summoning, summoners rule.
You may want to consider the master summoner archetype then. It will allow you to use use summoning abilities to utmost effect. You'll still have an eidolon, but it won't be nearly as powerful. You could probably make it small and use it as a scouting minion or something.