Magus vs. Magus / Eldritch Knight Comparisons

[Ravingdork]

Just some number comparisons I did because I was bored.

All builds are 15th-level, have 3/4 of the maximum rolled hit points (rounded up), and use the following ability scores: Str 20, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 24, Wis 10, Cha 10. They are also assumed to have a +3 melee weapon, a +5 cloak of resistance, and a number of ability boosters (included in the above). Everyone put their favored class bonus into HP.

Magus 15:
Melee +19/+14/+9
Fort +18; Ref +14; Will +14
HP 167
Caster Level 15
Class Abilities
- Arcane Pool (14)
- Improved/Greater Spell Combat
- Spellstrike
- Magus Arcana (5)
- Bonus Feats (2)
- Fighter Training (7th)
- Improved Pool Spell
- Knowledge Pool
- Heavy/Medium Armor

Magus 8/Eldritch Knight 7:
Melee +21/+16/+11
Fort +19; Ref +13; Will +13
HP 178
Caster Level 14
Class Abilities
- Arcane Pool (14)
- Improved Spell Combat
- Spellstrike
- Magus Arcana (5)
- Bonus Feats (3)
- Pool Spell
- Knowledge Pool
- Medium Armor
- Diverse Training (arcane 15th, fighter 11th)

Magus 10/Eldritch Knight 5:
BAB +20/+15/+10
Fort +19; Ref +14; Will +14
HP 175
Caster Level 14
Class Abilities
- Arcane Pool (12)
- Improved Spell Combat
- Spellstrike
- Magus Arcana (3)
- Bonus Feats (3)
- Pool spell
- Fighter Training (10th)
- Knowledge Pool
- Medium Armor
- Diverse Training (arcane 15th, fighter 10th)

All in all, I am very impressed. They are all very good options and none of them seem to steal the show. Do you want higher base stats? Or more class abilities/versatility? Perhaps something in between?

Are there any other prestige classes that work well with Magus? I'll be happy to do further comparisons.

[Shaa'ghi]

Ravingdork wrote:

Are there any other prestige classes that work well with Magus? I'll be happy to do further comparisons.

I'd love to see a comparison similar to this with Magus and Arcane Archer

[Sylvanite]

Interesting.

Magus 5 can't get into EK, though.

[Ravingdork]

Magus 15:
Melee +19/+14/+9
Fort +18; Ref +14; Will +14
HP 167
Caster Level 15
Class Abilities
- Arcane Pool (14)
- Improved/Greater Spell Combat
- Spellstrike
- Magus Arcana (5)
- Bonus Feats (2)
- Fighter Training (7th)
- Improved Pool Spell
- Knowledge Pool
- Heavy/Medium Armor

Magus 8/Arcane Archer 7:
Melee +21/+16/+11
Fort +19; Ref +15; Will +13
HP 178
Caster Level 13
Class Abilities
- Arcane Pool (11)
- Improved Spell Combat
- Spellstrike
- Magus Arcana (2)
- Bonus feats (1)
- enhance arrows (distance, elemental/elemental burst, magic)
- imbue arrow
- seeker arrow (2/day)
- phase arrow (1/day)

Magus 10/Arcane Archer 5:
BAB +20/+15/+10
Fort +19; Ref +15; Will +14
HP 175
Caster Level 13
Class Abilities
- Arcane Pool (12)
- Improved Spell Combat
- Spellstrike
- Magus Arcana (3)
- Fighter Training (10th)
- enhance arrows (distance, elemental, magic)
- imbue arrow
- seeker arrow (1/day)

There you go. Surprisingly, not much changed.

[Ravingdork]

Sylvanite wrote:

Interesting.

Magus 5 can't get into EK, though.

My mistake. I was thinking CL 5th = 3rd level spells like a wizard.

Fixed now.

[YuenglingDragon]

Nice comparisons.

I don't think I could possibly get out of Magus before 11. Improved Pool Spell is just too good to pass up.

[Thalin]

I mean, the EK gets effectively a little BAB and one feat for the loss of all new abilities but spells (including the pool) and even 1 level of spellcasting (do this at 16 and you'll find that the Magus gets his 6th level spells. If you do an average instead of 75% hp are the same (d8+1 vs d10).

So I guess bottom line is, as cute an idea as it is, you probably should never magus to eldrich knight... or really much else. Their pool is their primary power, and anything that does not advance the pool is not a good class.

[Kibeth]

I realize that the arcana "broad study" is there to let you use spell combat and the like with other spell lists if you multi class magus, but do you need that arcana if you cast a spell from a different list that is also on the wizard spell list? For example, if I'm Wizard 5/Magus 2, can I spell combat a shocking grasp no matter what slot I prepare it in? And would if I prepared it in my magus slot, would it do the full 5d6 damage, or just 2d6 since I'm only a second level magus. I'd like to thing that spell combat would work as long as it's a spell on the list no matter what slot you use to prepare it, and that because the spell is on both lists, you would use your overall caster level. But I'm not sure. If it does work that way, I think a Wizard 5/Magus 2/EK 8 might do alright. If you get up to 17th level to get the full EK 10, it would be quite good.

[Sevus]

Kibeth wrote:

I realize that the arcana "broad study" is there to let you use spell combat and the like with other spell lists if you multi class magus, but do you need that arcana if you cast a spell from a different list that is also on the wizard spell list? For example, if I'm Wizard 5/Magus 2, can I spell combat a shocking grasp no matter what slot I prepare it in? And would if I prepared it in my magus slot, would it do the full 5d6 damage, or just 2d6 since I'm only a second level magus. I'd like to thing that spell combat would work as long as it's a spell on the list no matter what slot you use to prepare it, and that because the spell is on both lists, you would use your overall caster level. But I'm not sure. If it does work that way, I think a Wizard 5/Magus 2/EK 8 might do alright. If you get up to 17th level to get the full EK 10, it would be quite good.

Spell Combat only specifies that it has to be on the magus spell list, so I think that you can use your prepared Wizard Spells with Spell Combat as long as they're on the Magus Spell list. Nice catch! Do remember that any prepared Wizard Spells you cast are subject to ASF as normal, however.

Your caster level won't stack, however. A Wizard 1/Cleric 1 with Mage Armor from the Magic domain casts Mage Armor at CL1, not CL2.

[Ravingdork]

Kibeth wrote:

I realize that the arcana "broad study" is there to let you use spell combat and the like with other spell lists if you multi class magus, but do you need that arcana if you cast a spell from a different list that is also on the wizard spell list? For example, if I'm Wizard 5/Magus 2, can I spell combat a shocking grasp no matter what slot I prepare it in? And would if I prepared it in my magus slot, would it do the full 5d6 damage, or just 2d6 since I'm only a second level magus. I'd like to thing that spell combat would work as long as it's a spell on the list no matter what slot you use to prepare it, and that because the spell is on both lists, you would use your overall caster level. But I'm not sure. If it does work that way, I think a Wizard 5/Magus 2/EK 8 might do alright. If you get up to 17th level to get the full EK 10, it would be quite good.

I really don't think it was ever meant to work that way.

[Snotlord]

Nice work Mr Dork. I've been hoping to see something like this. Thanks.

[LazarX]

Ravingdork wrote:

Kibeth wrote:

I realize that the arcana "broad study" is there to let you use spell combat and the like with other spell lists if you multi class magus, but do you need that arcana if you cast a spell from a different list that is also on the wizard spell list? For example, if I'm Wizard 5/Magus 2, can I spell combat a shocking grasp no matter what slot I prepare it in? And would if I prepared it in my magus slot, would it do the full 5d6 damage, or just 2d6 since I'm only a second level magus. I'd like to thing that spell combat would work as long as it's a spell on the list no matter what slot you use to prepare it, and that because the spell is on both lists, you would use your overall caster level. But I'm not sure. If it does work that way, I think a Wizard 5/Magus 2/EK 8 might do alright. If you get up to 17th level to get the full EK 10, it would be quite good.

I really don't think it was ever meant to work that way.

I'd concur. (What we actually agree?!!) I think that while Magus spell knowledge overlaps with that of Wizardry the style of spell casting is needs be different. The purpose of the arcana seems specifically for this type of multi-class situation.

Note that spells cast from the Wizard spell slots ARE still subject to arcane spell failure in this scenario.

[Purple Dragon Knight]

Two cool builds using Magus class with Wand Wielder Magus Arcana and Fighter levels modified by Qadira's Dawnflower Dervish fighting style:

Ftr1/Magus8: yes to 3rd level spell or wand or staff cast as part of a full attack weapon routine, but no to moving while doing that
(the spellblade option)

Ftr11/Magus3: yes to 1st level spell or wand or staff cast as part of a full attack weapon routine, and yes to moving while doing that
(the warrior option)

Ftr11/Magus3 with Qadira fighting style and Wand Wielder magus arcana completely owns in my honest and awesome opinion. BEST PATHFINDER COMBO SO FAR!!!! (you get to cast 4th level spells via wand as part of a full attack weapon routine done as part of your move... all at the cost of dropping the highest iterative attack... which can be recuperated via haste)

TIM AND ERIK AWESOME SHOW == GREAT JOB!

[Ravingdork]

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Two cool builds using Magus class with Wand Wielder Magus Arcana and Fighter levels modified by Qadira's Dawnflower Dervish fighting style:

Ftr1/Magus8: yes to 3rd level spell or wand or staff cast as part of a full attack weapon routine, but no to moving while doing that
(the spellblade option)

Ftr11/Magus3: yes to 1st level spell or wand or staff cast as part of a full attack weapon routine, and yes to moving while doing that
(the warrior option)

Ftr11/Magus3 with Qadira fighting style and Wand Wielder magus arcana completely owns in my honest and awesome opinion. BEST PATHFINDER COMBO SO FAR!!!! (you get to cast 4th level spells via wand as part of a full attack weapon routine done as part of your move... all at the cost of dropping the highest iterative attack... which can be recuperated via haste)

TIM AND ERIK AWESOME SHOW == GREAT JOB!

What's the Qadira fighting style? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

[Mynameisjake]

Ravingdork wrote:

What's the Qadira fighting style? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Dervish Dance, I'm guessing.

[Purple Dragon Knight]

Ravingdork wrote:

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

Two cool builds using Magus class with Wand Wielder Magus Arcana and Fighter levels modified by Qadira's Dawnflower Dervish fighting style:

Ftr1/Magus8: yes to 3rd level spell or wand or staff cast as part of a full attack weapon routine, but no to moving while doing that
(the spellblade option)

Ftr11/Magus3: yes to 1st level spell or wand or staff cast as part of a full attack weapon routine, and yes to moving while doing that
(the warrior option)

Ftr11/Magus3 with Qadira fighting style and Wand Wielder magus arcana completely owns in my honest and awesome opinion. BEST PATHFINDER COMBO SO FAR!!!! (you get to cast 4th level spells via wand as part of a full attack weapon routine done as part of your move... all at the cost of dropping the highest iterative attack... which can be recuperated via haste)

TIM AND ERIK AWESOME SHOW == GREAT JOB!

What's the Qadira fighting style? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

It's the "Qadira: Dawnflower Dervish" fighter subclass in the most recent "inner sea" companion, along with the "Brevoy: Aldori Swordlord" and "Taldor: Rondelero Duelist" fighter subclasses...