Two Weapon Rend and tripping

[the_hulk]

if i successfully trip with my first attack and successfully hit with my second, do i get to rend the opponent it is worded as "if i hit" in two weapon rend so i didnt know if combat maneuvers counted as hitting the opponent. personally, i would think that combat maneuvers targeting the person ie grapple, trip or drag would count as a hit as opposed to disarm or sunder. would this be up to my dm or is there a ruling on it.

[Kalyth]

the_hulk wrote:

if i successfully trip with my first attack and successfully hit with my second, do i get to rend the opponent it is worded as "if i hit" in two weapon rend so i didnt know if combat maneuvers counted as hitting the opponent. personally, i would think that combat maneuvers targeting the person ie grapple, trip or drag would count as a hit as opposed to disarm or sunder. would this be up to my dm or is there a ruling on it.

No sure whether rend damage would apply or not but...if it did you would have to be using weapons with the "Trip" or you would not be hitting with both weapons. Unless you wanted to do an unarmed attack for the trip attempt.

[James Risner]

the_hulk wrote:

if i successfully trip with my first attack and successfully hit with my second, do i get to rend the opponent it is worded as "if i hit" in two weapon rend

I would say no, since you didn't hit them. To hit them you need to roll an attack roll and match their AC. You tripped them, so you rolled a CMB to match their CMD.

[Happler]

James Risner wrote:

the_hulk wrote:

if i successfully trip with my first attack and successfully hit with my second, do i get to rend the opponent it is worded as "if i hit" in two weapon rend

I would say no, since you didn't hit them. To hit them you need to roll an attack roll and match their AC. You tripped them, so you rolled a CMB to match their CMD.

I will agree, as long as he is not using a weapon with the "Trip" feature. If it has the trip feature, then he is hitting them with a weapon and it is an attack roll, just not against their "armor/touch/flat-footed" AC, but against their "maneuvers" AC.

To quote the PRD on Combat Maneuvers:

Quote:

When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus.

[the_hulk]

Happler wrote:

I will agree, as long as he is not using a weapon with the "Trip" feature. If it has the trip feature, then he is hitting them with a weapon and it is an attack roll, just not against their "armor/touch/flat-footed" AC, but against their "maneuvers" AC.

To quote the PRD on Combat Maneuvers:

Quote:

When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus.

to even attempt a trip you have to use a trip weapon so...

im pretty sure a CMB attempt is an attack but is it considered a hit because as james said, it is against their CMD so can one "hit" someones CMD for rend?

[James Risner]

Happler wrote:

he is hitting them with a weapon and it is an attack roll, just not against their "armor/touch/flat-footed" AC, but against their "maneuvers" AC.

Now that is an interesting line of thinking, but I'm still not convinced ;-)

[Gallo]

James Risner wrote:

Happler wrote:

he is hitting them with a weapon and it is an attack roll, just not against their "armor/touch/flat-footed" AC, but against their "maneuvers" AC.

Now that is an interesting line of thinking, but I'm still not convinced ;-)

Given a rend simulates hitting with both weapons and giving them an extra "twist", for want of a better description, to cause damage on top of that caused by the original two hits, rend wouldn't work with a trip.

Trips don't cause damage so any effect that produces extra damage wouldn't kick in.

[dreddwulf1]

I would have to say that you can't use rend after a trip attack, due to the fact that the weapon was ALREADY used to trip your enemy. In the description of two-weapon rend, you hit with both weapons. Tripping your opponent ties one weapon up in that action, so the secondary damage wouldn't apply because it's the result of extra damage from striking the enemy with BOTH weapons offensively. Trip is a maneuver to unbalance an opponent rather than damage them. Now if you hit the opponent twice while they are on the ground AFTER tripping them, that's another story.

Nice idea, but using Two-Weapon Rend sounds too much like trying to get a free attack out of the deal. If you need that, take greater trip.

[the_hulk]

dreddwulf1 wrote:

Now if you hit the opponent twice while they are on the ground AFTER tripping them, that's another story.

thats the plan, just checking the rules.

my fighter/ranger/cleric/barbarian is only lvl 6 and is a PFS character so it will be a while til lvl 11 anyway but wanted to check ahead of time.

[dreddwulf1]

I do wonder if there is a limit to what TYPE of two-weapon attack the Rend feat works with. For example, can you do it with two hammers, or a sword and shield?

[Mynameisjake]

the_hulk wrote:

to even attempt a trip you have to use a trip weapon so...

To use a weapon in a trip attempt, the weapon must have the trip ability. Trip attempts, in and of themselves, do not require trip weapons.