Hey guys,
I've been playing D&D for a very long time now, and never got around to playing a Bard. The flavor of the class never appealed to me, only until recently has the class started to grow on me. I started a couple of bards in the past months, and I couldn't really get a build that appealed to me. Fast Forward to APG, the new options seem pretty cool, but I don't know how big of a sacrifice some of the options are, having never played a bard longer than a session before.
So I'm dead set on trying to hammer out a solid representation of a bard, and hopefully with y'all's help I can accomplish this task!!
The guidelines:
Setting: Kingmaker Campaign
Attributes: 25 point buy
Source Material: APG, Base Book, and the kingmaker options
Current group make-up:
1x DPS oriented Barbarian, 1x Tank/DPS invulnerable rager Barbarian,
1x Druid (Wolf Shaman), 1x Sorceror (fire spell affecionado),
1x Inquisitor, 1x Fighter DPS orientation( not there much)
My normal playstyle: I typically love Wizards, spell casters are generally up my alley, but I've always loved Wizards. Rogues TWF, Rangers, and Paladin.
Any assistance would be magical!!
Welcome to the camp of bard lovers! There's a lot of fun to be had, so don't be worried. As for versions of the bard, it all depends on what you wanna do.
Standard Bard: Your honest jack of all trades. The standard bard can be a good spellcaster, a solid damage dealer (archery is a very strong option), and a decent crowd controller. Standard bards struggle to hold the front lines with their lower AC, and resorting to a shield pushing your damage down. They usually function well as skirmisher builds & archery is amazing, if feat intensive. Standard bards have inspire courage, which everyone except your sorcerer is going to love.
Arcane Duelist: This is your strongest option for a bard who wants to duke it out with the big dogs. Grab yourself a two handed weapon and proceed to beat the ever loving s**t out of your enemies. Arcane Duelists trade a lot of their crowd control options for the ability to become versatile & dangerous with a weapon. They also serve well as anti-casters! Arcane Duelists keep inspire courage, and it'll be your bread and butter in all but the most specific instances. A very strong option for your group.
Sandman: Part rogue, part spellthief, part beguiler, and all bard. The sandman type focuses on crowd control, spellcasting, mischief, deception, and even has some sneak attack to round out the character. The sandman is a stronger spellcaster than the magician (seriously), and does well to focus on weapon finesse over strength. The sandman loses access to Inspire Courage, but if you're comfortable with that it's a very strong option for your group. Just don't build the character to never see melee combat- several of their core abilities require melee touch attacks. The sandman is easily one of the most interesting and awesome options for the APG bard.
Hope that sheds some light.
Well...with that group make-up, bard is the PERFECT choice. With that much DPR already, any buffs you hand out are going to exponentially increase your comrades damage output. So, you are going to want to get in some of the action.
First and foremost, you will want to keep inspire courage. This eliminates: archivist, court bard, detective, magician, sandman and street performer. Leaving us Arcane Duelist, savage skald and sea singer.
Second, you don't need to get into melee, there are plenty of those guys already, and a couple of them can already rage. This makes the Savage Skald, probably not the best option. I can honestly say that the sea singer has never really appealed to me, but if you want a pirate-y bard, then by all means go for it. This leaves us the core bard, and the arcane duelist.
In terms of "bang for your buck", the arcane duelist is probably the most optimized of the bards (Sandman and Magician are nice also, but you want to fill a "buffer" role, not a "spy/caster" role. So I would go with the Arcane Duelist.
So the bard I would suggest is:
--an Elf (only because the increase in weapon selection)
--that uses a longbow
--Arcane Duelist 16/Arcane Archer 4
Round 1: Swift (quickened haste); Move (Inspire Courage); Standard (Good Hope)
This first round will allow you to give +5/+6 to attack and damage at level 7/11 respectively. Not to mention other bonuses and an extra attack every round.
Rounds 2+: Standard + Move (Full Attack with rapid shot and many shot will net you 3 + normal # of attacks that are enhanced by...) Swift (Arcane Strike)
All in all, not a bad deal. You get to add to the DPR of your group in two very significant ways. not to mention, you still have lovely verstaile to fill in gaps in the group...for example..the lack of a knowledgable character. You could fill that gap nicely :)
I'm currently playing an arcane-duelist bard, two handing a long sword. The biggest issue I currently have is that my AC is literally 5-6 points behind the rest of the party unless I use a shield.. then its only 3-4 points behind the rest of the party. Thats a pretty big gap. I'm looking at Blur and Displacement, but even then it's blowing a round just to try to keep up with not getting splattered..
I like the AD Bard, but do be aware of that little problem.
-S
I'm currently playing an arcane-duelist bard, two handing a long sword. The biggest issue I currently have is that my AC is literally 5-6 points behind the rest of the party unless I use a shield.. then its only 3-4 points behind the rest of the party. Thats a pretty big gap. I'm looking at Blur and Displacement, but even then it's blowing a round just to try to keep up with not getting splattered..
I like the AD Bard, but do be aware of that little problem.
-S
At 10 & 16 your armor increases with access to medium & heavy armor proficiency. It's a bit later in progression, but worth noting.
Honestly, even with the armor if you wanted a gish there are better ways to go about it. The AD bard is a wonderful way to take a bard and get them into the combat more than the core bard, but it is not enough to shore up some of the drawbacks.
Which is why I suggest taking the Arcane Duelist and making an Archer Bard. Nowhere in the text does it state that you must use a melee weapon. Unless that was errata'd. So, I would use a bow and make it your arcane bond. When you combine all the "gifts" of the AD bard into the archer bard, you get a very, very nice bard.
Not to mention, with flight, you can manuever yourself so that your allies are not in your line of sight.
My only wish was that bards recieved gravity bow. So depressing that they didn't....but hey...that is what Wands are for ;)
They do get medium, and later heavy.. but.
Medium isn't such a great improvement over light that it'll make a big difference. Heavy is- but 16th is a long way to survive without getting splattered. I'm not upset they get the proficiencies its just late in the game.
I do play him and I enjoy him, but its something to be aware of if you are going to be one. Blur and/or displacement are really a must.
-S
Yeah, I think the Arcane Duelist is the route I'd like to try out. The ranged variety seems like it would be pretty fun to play too.
How would y'all distribute the points for the attributes ?
Feats seem straight forward: Pointblank, precise, rapid, and deadly aim ?
(( sorry I'm 5th level))
We get 10500gp to begin with, should I dump that almost entirely into a +1 elemental bow of some type ?
Yeah, I think the Arcane Duelist is the route I'd like to try out. The ranged variety seems like it would be pretty fun to play too.
How would y'all distribute the points for the attributes ?
Feats seem straight forward: Pointblank, precise, rapid, and deadly aim ?
(( sorry I'm 5th level))
We get 10500gp to begin with, should I dump that almost entirely into a +1 elemental bow of some type ?
Like I'm currently playing an arcane-duelist bard. With the Lineup you have in your party I would however highly recommend the Standard Bard and I would stay away from the Sandman. With your party you do want inspire courage.
Pick human so you can pick the new Favored Class Option that give you more spells know. Playing an archer is not bad but melee is fine too.Usually people say a bard should go for str (melee) or dex (archer) and not raise the charisma too high. with 25 PB I would start with at least 16 char.
Since you lack a wizard your knowledge skills will be a great access so Standard Bard is a good.
Ask your GM who he reads the rules on lingering performance and the new final spells. When a bard casts saving final does the lingering effect end or not. If your GM is fine with letting the lingering effect last 2 rounds I would pick lingering performance, if not I would not pick it. Nor would I pick extra performance. At level 6, 7 or 8 you have all the rounds per day you need.
quick draw is not a bad choice.
Got to go to bed now, I will post more later.
Check out Treantmonk's Guide to Pathfinder Bards.
Link:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab/test2
I don't agree with everything bit it's still a good guide.
The APG has some new good spells, notably:
Feather Step
Saving Final
Gallant Inspiration (2d4 + on attack or skill check)
Versatile Weapon.
Touch of Gracelessness is also a nice debuff.
/Kind regards Zark.
Usually people say a bard should go for str (melee) or dex (archer) and not raise the charisma too high. with 25 PB I would start with at least 16 char.
Since you lack a wizard your knowledge skills will be a great access so Standard Bard is a good [choice].
Looking at the party makeup (I'm reading the sorcerer as focusing on evocation) the party doesn't lack for damage.
I would focus on a high CHA and decent INT. This delivers a good deal of skills (which the party needs) as well as reasonable enchantments (which the party is lacking).
Delivering a secondary damage dealing archer (or melee fighter) in this group is going to be bringing a tertiary damage dealer to the table, while the group is completely lacking knowledges and likely severely lacking enchantment-type spells.
I'd go with a caster focused Bard. I'd also give Archivist a look. If the druid has perception through the roof (and he likely does) then he can find traps and then you can deal with them.
-James
no, Stay away from the Archivist and go with a Standard Bard (Arcane Duelist).
There are other ways of dealing with traps:
- if you play a bard with some dex you can actually invest in disable device.
- magic traps? just use summon monster and spring the traps or
- use dispel magic and dispel them for some rounds or
- use dimension door to circumvent them
- etc.
I'm one of the people who wasn't all pleased with how the bard turned out. I still think it's a bit too weak. But there are two exceptions where the bard really shines.
1) In large group that primeraly focus on weapon damage
2) in groups where the arcane caster is a sorcerer.
Now looking at your group make-up, a large group, primeraly focused on weapon damage and the arcane caster is a sorcerer, the bard is a great choice.
Doc Cosmic got a point when he wrote:
"Well...with that group make-up, bard is the PERFECT choice. With that much DPR already, any buffs you hand out are going to exponentially increase your comrades damage output. So, you are going to want to get in some of the action.
First and foremost, you will want to keep inspire courage. This eliminates: archivist, court bard, detective, magician, sandman and street performer."
My bold.
I would however say: you will want to keep inspire courage AND Bardic Knowledge.
You don't have a rogue or a wizard in your group so you lack people with skills, especially knowledge skills.
You have a sorcerer: they have many spells per day, but very few spells known and lack knowledge skills and skill points per level.
If you play a straight bard you will have a lot of skill points. When you play a arcane-duelist you really suffer from not having Bardic Knowledge. If you play a straight bard Versatile performance will help you even more with your skills.
The sorcerer pick all spells based on DC. Slow etc.
You pick spells like Feather Step, Invisibility, Gallant Inspiration, Versatile Weapon, haste, Good Hope, Dimension door, etc.
There are some exception. You probably both want spells like glitter dust and mirror image. Notice that Jester's Jaunt can be use to help your friends if they are stuck. A good spell.
At level 8 you will get Dirge of doom. Your sorcerer will love you if you use it.
The great thing about playing an archer bard is that your dex will be high so your Initiative will be high. If you pick Improved Initiative chances are you will be one of the first to act. Start with Dirge of doom and then Good Hope or Haste. If you got a rod of quicken spell you can even start with Dirge of doom (move action) cast Good hope (standard action) and then Haste (swift action), the grab your weapon (if you got quick draw).
When your sorcerer is up he cast is spells with a DC and the foes all have -2 on their saves :-)
If the sorcerer allready has cast his fireball you could start with Dirge of doom (move action), cast glitter dust using a rod (swift action), then change to inspire courage :-)
Melee, archer or spell bard?
I would play an archer bard with a good or high charisma.
The dex will help you with AC, reflex saves, dex based skills (stealth and acrobatics), Initiative, CMD, touch ac and attack roles. If you want to play a melee bard you still have to get some dex, but if you play an archer bard you don't need more than 10 - 12 str. Honestly if you play a cross bow archer 10 - 12 is enough.
Some people say if your an archer you want to use a bow. I say perhaps. With rapid reload you will do just fine or even better, and you don't need rapid reload until level 7.
Cross bow has a better threat range and with Improved Critical you will double the threat range. With good hope and inspire courage and deadly aim you will make up for the loss of str bonus on damage. Remember, boosting your strength means you will have less ability point to boost other ability scores. If you do want to play a bard using a bow, you could use a shortbow. The bard is proficient with the shortbow. Ask your GM if that includes the composite shortbow (if you want to add strength bonus to damage). Remember a melee bard probably need more con. Boosting your con means you will have less ability point to boost other ability scores.
Looking at the party makeup I guess most of them focus on melee, so every time they meet flying creatures or flying spell casters they will start crying ;-)
I have yet to see a melee character that also focus on range weapon feats.
The party needs an archer more than one more melee character.
even if you want to play a charisma bard you should pick some archer feats and you should start with some dex, minimum 16.
Races:
I'd probably play a human , but hafling is not bad. Nor is half-elf (or even elf or half-ork)
Human
You can pick the new Favored Class Option that give you more spells know.
Bonus feat (Two feats at level 1, so you can start with point blank shot and Precise Shot).
one bonus skill point per level - great.
+2 to any one stat
Hafling
+1 luck bonus on all saves
+2 racial bonus on Perception skill checks.
+2 racial bonus on Acrobatics and Climb skill checks.
+1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls
+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, –2 Strength
some new cool alternate Racial Traits
4 size bonus on Stealth checks.
high cool fun and factor
Hafling is actually not a bad choice.
Halv-elves
Alternate Racial Traits
New alternate Racial Trait: Ancestral Arms
bonus to perception
bonus to some will saves
+2 to any one stat
Elf
- I don't like Elves
Half-orcs
- I don't like Half-orcs
Me, I would play human and pick the new Favored Class Option that give you more spells know. My second choice would be Hafling.
So my advice: Human or Hafling.
Stats:
Suggestion on stats playing an human cross bow bard:
str: 12 (or str 10 and wis 10)
dex: 18
con : 12
int: 12
wis: 8
char: 16
Suggestion on stats playing an human bow bard:
str: 14
dex: 18
con : 12
int: 12
wis: 7
char: 16
Suggestion on stats playing an hafling cross bow bard:
str: 11
dex: 18
con : 12
int: 12
wis: 8
char: 18
If you play a bard using a cross bow you could start with str 8 or 9 and boost wisdom. The reason I don't want to dump str is because if your hit with str damage or drain you will get into trouble. Also you want to be able to carry stuff.
If you play human, Standard Bard you could start with int. 10, but I don't recommend it.
Regardless of which archer bard you choose you could start with 7 wis and 10 con and boost some other stat.
If you choose to play a Arcane Duelist I would start with int 14. You will need it even if you play a human.
some last advices
Regardless if you play a Standard Bard or Arcane Duelist I think the archer is the way to go.
You could play a archer bard with some charisma or a charisma bard with some dex and some archer feats.
Starting stats would be minimum 16 dex and minimum 16 char.
If you play an archer bard start with 18 dex, if you play a charisma bard start with 18 char.
If you play a hafling start with 18 dex and 18 char.
If you don't get to use you cross bow/bow you got other cool stuff to fall back on and as a archer bard you don't really need feats like combat casting, nor will you need heavy armor and at higher levels you got spells such as mirror image and blur or/and you can get a elven chain since it "is treated, in all ways, like light armor, including when determining proficiency".
If you want to multiclass my suggestion is to pick 8 levels bard then one level fighter or one level ranger. Level 9 bard is no big deal. Another option would be to go straight bard until level 13 or 14, then pick some fighter levels or ranger levels.
Me, I would probably go bard all the way to level 13 or 14, then pick one or more levels fighter (or ranger). But if I really wanted to use a bow I would pick one level fighter at level 9.
Finally. There is now right or wrong way. Just make sure you have fun.
no, Stay away from the Archivist and go with a Standard Bard (Arcane Duelist).
I meant Standard Bard (or Arcane Duelist).
We get 10500gp to begin with, should I dump that almost entirely into a +1 elemental bow of some type ?
No, I would get a +1 bow or a +1 cross bow and boost dex and armor and get some scrolls, potions and wands. Perhaps an item that boost charisma as well. Get silver and cold iron arrows/bolts.
Feats: Pointblank, precise and deadly aim.
Last feat depents on your build, perhaps Improved Initiative.
You will need Rapid reload at level 7 if you use a cross bow.
Quick draw might be good if you play a standard bard. Check with your GM if you can use quick draw and meta magic rods.
Make sure you have the spell Versatile Weapon.
I disagree, but then again I find being able to handle traps as a very useful skill for the party to have.
Simply setting off magical traps is not a solution imho.
-James
That's cool. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. :-)
We played a campaign from level 1 to level 14 without a rogue.We did set of some traps, but no problem really.
As long as you ca detect the traps you can usually deal with the somehow.
I do agree with you on focusing "on a high CHA and decent INT".
Inspire Courage maximization and mass pumping is where it is at.
What do you mean by that? The Standrad bard gets Inspire Courage too.
As you level the ability to give people weapon enchantment bonuses would
be great. I would rather have that than Bardic Knowledge.
Are you refering to Mass Bladethirst? At level 18 that suck.
I would rahter have inspire courage +4 any day.I have played a standrad bard and I'm now playing Arcane Duelist.
His group needs Bardic Knowledge far more than a Arcane Duelist with Mass Bladethirst.
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I am playing a Bard/Rogue multi-class (gasp! the horror!) in a game right now, and let me tell you, it rocks.
I chose standard bard. I chose some alt racial preferred class abilities from the APG. at 11th lvl, I was 7 bard, 4 rogue. That gave nice trap finding/save/disables, lots of skills, and plenty of buffing.
7th level, Inspire became a Move action. I had a minor rod of quicken by then, so my first round went something like this: Haste (quick), Inspire Courage(move) Other Spell/Single Attack, and 5 foot step.
I had a Long Spear, and with the flanking could get a nice damage going on the sneak attack. Generally something like 1d8 + 2d6 + 8 (2 from arcane strike, 2 from enchanted weapon, 2 from STR, 2 from Inspire, and usually some from bless/prayer/something.)
Thats not TOO shabby for a dude in a group of your makeup. Plus, the range allows you to stand far back (makes for less damage with low AC and low HP), plus with LUNGE feat, can hit from 15 foot...follow that with a 5ft step, and you can hit most bad guys. Take the Gang Up feat, and you dont even really need the flank for the sneak attack....it can get really really nifty.
I am having a blast.
With Lingering Performance feat, can take first round to Inspire, then 2nd round can drop Inspire (it carries on for 2 more rounds) and then start a fascinate to control the enemies. Or, take the fascinate for the first round, with some buffing casting, then inspire and move and attack the 2nd round.
Lots of options, lots.
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I recommend using a whip. You can keep out of melee and all your barbarian friends will love you. Drop spells and disarm/trip from safety like a mad man.
Human 25 pt
str 16 +2 from human
dex 14
con 12
int 13
wis 10
cha 16
Combat expertise
improved feint
The feints will help lower dex to CMD of your foes. Take the Surtova trait (kingmaker) and you can get +2 to damage.
One thing to consider too is enforcer feat from APG. Will allow you to strike and possibly give your foe the shaken status for rounds equal to the damage.
I am playing a Bard/Rogue multi-class (gasp! the horror!) in a game right now, and let me tell you, it rocks.
I chose standard bard. I chose some alt racial preferred class abilities from the APG. at 11th lvl, I was 7 bard, 4 rogue. That gave nice trap finding/save/disables, lots of skills, and plenty of buffing.
7th level, Inspire became a Move action. I had a minor rod of quicken by then, so my first round went something like this: Haste (quick), Inspire Courage(move) Other Spell/Single Attack, and 5 foot step.
I had a Long Spear, and with the flanking could get a nice damage going on the sneak attack. Generally something like 1d8 + 2d6 + 8 (2 from arcane strike, 2 from enchanted weapon, 2 from STR, 2 from Inspire, and usually some from bless/prayer/something.)
Thats not TOO shabby for a dude in a group of your makeup. Plus, the range allows you to stand far back (makes for less damage with low AC and low HP), plus with LUNGE feat, can hit from 15 foot...follow that with a 5ft step, and you can hit most bad guys. Take the Gang Up feat, and you dont even really need the flank for the sneak attack....it can get really really nifty.
I am having a blast.
With Lingering Performance feat, can take first round to Inspire, then 2nd round can drop Inspire (it carries on for 2 more rounds) and then start a fascinate to control the enemies. Or, take the fascinate for the first round, with some buffing casting, then inspire and move and attack the 2nd round.
Lots of options, lots.
Fascinate breaks if they see hostile things though. Unless your party isn't attacking by the second round of combat, I don't see how that'd be useful at all. Fascinate seems to be an out of combat ability, not an in combat ability.
Fascinate breaks if they see hostile things though. Unless your party isn't attacking by the second round of combat, I don't see how that'd be useful at all. Fascinate seems to be an out of combat ability, not an in combat ability.
Yes, Fascinate is an out of combat ability.
Inspire Courage maximization and mass pumping is where it is at.
What do you mean by that? The Standrad bard gets Inspire Courage too.
As you level the ability to give people weapon enchantment bonuses would
be great. I would rather have that than Bardic Knowledge.
Are you refering to Mass Bladethirst? At level 18 that suck.
I would rahter have inspire courage +4 any day.
I have played a standrad bard and I'm now playing Arcane Duelist.
His group needs Bardic Knowledge far more than a Arcane Duelist with Mass Bladethirst.
Ah, but Zark, the ability increases the actual enhancement bonus of the weapon. In previous editions that simply meant that it did a bit more damage, but in Pathfinder it translates directly to DR penetration. Yes, at 18 most players can be assumed to have a +9/10 weapon, but unless they have a +5 enhancement bonus on the weapon they're not going to be able to penetrate alignment DR without the actual property on it.
I'm not saying that mass bladethirst is awesome, or even useful every day, but that +1/2 enhancement bonus could be enough to penetrate DR for him and his allies- and that's worth far more than +4 attack/damage.
Inspire Courage maximization and mass pumping is where it is at.
What do you mean by that? The Standrad bard gets Inspire Courage too.
As you level the ability to give people weapon enchantment bonuses would
be great. I would rather have that than Bardic Knowledge.
Are you refering to Mass Bladethirst? At level 18 that suck.
I would rahter have inspire courage +4 any day.
I have played a standrad bard and I'm now playing Arcane Duelist.
His group needs Bardic Knowledge far more than a Arcane Duelist with Mass Bladethirst.
Ah, but Zark, the ability increases the actual enhancement bonus of the weapon. In previous editions that simply meant that it did a bit more damage, but in Pathfinder it translates directly to DR penetration. Yes, at 18 most players can be assumed to have a +9/10 weapon, but unless they have a +5 enhancement bonus on the weapon they're not going to be able to penetrate alignment DR without the actual property on it.
I'm not saying that mass bladethirst is awesome, or even useful every day, but that +1/2 enhancement bonus could be enough to penetrate DR for him and his allies- and that's worth far more than +4 attack/damage.
Well, that +4 damage would negate up to 4 damage reduction, wouldn't it? :)
I've had some success with Bard Sorcerers.
You could go with a gnome or halfling, and strength as your dump stat.
As a Sorc. your character can get invisability and mirror image at relitively decent levels. You might want to take Extra music to start with, so you can always have inspire courage on tap.
but in Pathfinder it translates directly to DR penetration.
That is GM's call. A GM could actually say the bonus function just like greater magic weapon (with the exception of the ghost touch ability).
Yes, at 18 most players can be assumed to have a +9/10 weapon, but unless they have a +5 enhancement bonus on the weapon they're not going to be able to penetrate alignment DR without the actual property on it.
A) Does Kingmaker run up to level 18?
B) At level 18 most players, unless really stupid, will have a +5 weapon and some abilities equal to +4 or +5. The character wealth at level 18 is 530,000 gp and a +5 weapon costs 50,000 gp. This weapon overcome DR silver, cold iron, adamantit, alignment. At level 18 you can afford at least a +9 weapon (162,000 gp).C) Alignment DR? An oil of Align Weapon fix this and as I said before most smart players will get a +5 weapon at level 18.
D) Enhancement bonus +5 and some special abilities is always better than a +4 weapon with more special abilities since 1) it helps you overcome DR, 2) bonus to attack = helps you to actually hit the foe. No hit = no damage.
In a thread discussing if a 11 level fighter should go for a +5 weapon Jason Nelson had this to say:
Buying a flat-out +5 weapon, no special abilities, is actually a good tactical choice in PF, as it voids all DR against you except for /- and poke/stab/bonk. No need to worry about alignments or metals. Also, the hefty attack roll bonus gives you more flexibility to use tactics that impose an attack roll penalty (PA or the "XYZ Assault" feats in the APG).
Those special abilities are terribly tempting, and if you guess right they are great, but there is certainly something to be said for the straight-up +5 that works against everybody, never need to worry about lethal/nonlethal, damaging yourself, or energy resistances, especially given it is going to outstrip the "+1 special property weapon + GMW" trick until you get to 20th level.
More likely, though, as others have said, it would probably be +3 weapon, +4 STR item, +3 cloak, and maybe a few incidentals.
n underrated choice is also the ring of minor spell storing - pop in a shield and mirror image for your THF/TWF fighter and you're good to go. It's 18K, so pricey for midlevels, but not break-the-bank pricey and very versatile.
He made this comment on a level 11 character. You telling me a level 18 wouldn't get a +5 weapon with some special abilities?
I'm not saying that mass bladethirst is awesome, or even useful every day, but that +1/2 enhancement bonus could be enough to penetrate DR for him and his allies- and that's worth far more than +4 attack/damage.
"The bonus provided by this power is +4 if conferred on two allies, +3 for three allies, +2 for four allies, and +1 for five or more allies."
+1 bonus at level 18 or +4 attack and damage? I would take the +4 any day.
.....and you have to wait 18 levels to get mass bladethirst.
Well, that +4 damage would negate up to 4 damage reduction, wouldn't it? :)
Exactly :-)
As I pointed out before. every bonus to hit increase your chance to actually hit the enemy. Or as Jason N. said: " Also, the hefty attack roll bonus gives you more flexibility to use tactics that impose an attack roll penalty (PA or the "XYZ Assault" feats in the APG)."
All these guys telling you how to do damage are missing the point: there's 3 fighters and a blaster sorcerer. In Kingmaker, it's basically going to be you or the sorcerer who's going to lead this party.
Depending on what the evoker sorcerer does outside of combat, your roles are: face, skill monkey, and buffer. I'd invest in leadership skills (social interaction and knowledge), learn buffs and charms, and let the mooks (your party barbarians) take the risks. Since you're taking on a lot of the skill burden, you might ask someone else to cross-class into disable device just to pitch in.
Improved Initiative is going to be key with so many combat-focused PCs. For your charms to work well, you have to get them off before everything's ruined by your teammates. Since charms and illusions will start to lag as you grow in level, decided if that's going to be a primary or secondary focus for you. Your buffs will not need to get past saving throws with poorer DCs.
Be a bard. Be the leader. When it's not combat, it's your turn to shine. When swords are drawn, share the glory and buff/charm. You and the Inquisitor will be the most invaluable PCs, despite doing the least damage.
good stuff
+1
Good stuff.
This is absolutely correct. Looking at a bard at a purely combat-build POV misses much of the point of the bard. It is the quintessential RP class, and shines in that regard. You are the one that can get people into courtly events, even if only as your assistants or backing players (the druid can become little animals that perform with you, if need be). You can use your diplomatic skills and knowledge to impress nobles, win ladies' (or gentlemen's) hearts, and become an invaluable advisor or agent to a king or queen.
Moreover, with your two primary fighters being barbarians, you can smooth over cultural misunderstandings and prevent the worst possible outcomes in those courtly situations where etiquette, not swordsmanship, will determine the victor.
Its a situational ability that lets you give defending or ghost touch to a good number of your party. Its not stellar but adequate.-James
Its a very situational ability, but I admit is is a cool ability and it leds to versatility which is fitting.
My poits was:
- most characters have a +5 weapon with some special abilities at level 18
- I'm not even sure kingmaker runs to level 18
- the team may benefit from this ablity at level 18. Not at level 1 or 5 or 17 but at level 18 but most of the time he will use inspire courage.
- Bardic knowledge, on the other hand, would benefin the party from level 1 and it will be useful ALL the time and so will his skills.
I think MooNinja should play whatever makes him happy. Arcane Duelist would be fine, Standard Bard would be fine, an orcale would be fine, or any class that makes him happy.
MooNinja, whatever makes you happy - go for it :-)