Evening all! I'm dming a game soon, and want to include merfolks as a playable race. The game setting will include both on land and at sea adventures. what are some good ways of making a merfolk character not a burden( the 5ft move speed, would hurt the party in travels, and paint a big target on the charterers head in combat) to the party when its on land. Thanks in advance.
I would think the easiest way would be to allow them to have legs on land (see many mermaid films :)) but impose a penalty like all ground is considered difficult terrain to them this would give them a speed of 15 which while slow is still in the realm of "normal" characters.
I would think the easiest way would be to allow them to have legs on land (see many mermaid films :)) but impose a penalty like all ground is considered difficult terrain to them this would give them a speed of 15 which while slow is still in the realm of "normal" characters.
This would work i figured id have to house rule this. Any magic items that would also be able to remedy the situation?
Any ability that would enhance his speed would do the job really. For instance a mer-folk cleric with the travel domain would have a speed of 15 going to 25 with his domain longstrider spell. Most actual items that do this would be out of reach for a starting character but creating a Tail Wrap of Ambulation would not be impossible, the penalty that it takes the boots slot for magic items would somewhat balance it in my opinion.
Any ability that would enhance his speed would do the job really. For instance a mer-folk cleric with the travel domain would have a speed of 15 going to 25 with his domain longstrider spell. Most actual items that do this would be out of reach for a starting character but creating a Tail Wrap of Ambulation would not be impossible, the penalty that it takes the boots slot for magic items would somewhat balance it in my opinion.
would increasing the move speed or giving the race a natural "fins to feet ability" break it?
Hmmm...
Having had a look in the bestiary those stat modifiers are a bit high although the lack of other abilities and terrible land speed could be seen as balancing them i suppose. So if you intend to remove or lessen the land speed problem i would probably say on land they suffer a -2 to dexterity instead of a +2 due to the fact they are poorly adapted for surface life or something.
Hmmm...
Having had a look in the bestiary those stat modifiers are a bit high although the lack of other abilities and terrible land speed could be seen as balancing them i suppose. So if you intend to remove or lessen the land speed problem i would probably say on land they suffer a -2 to dexterity instead of a +2 due to the fact they are poorly adapted for surface life or something.
ya thats been my problem so far. If the movespeed is improved to much the race gets pretty broken. i figured that maybe increasing the movespeed to 15ft on land would be the max.
Hmmm...
Having had a look in the bestiary those stat modifiers are a bit high although the lack of other abilities and terrible land speed could be seen as balancing them i suppose. So if you intend to remove or lessen the land speed problem i would probably say on land they suffer a -2 to dexterity instead of a +2 due to the fact they are poorly adapted for surface life or something.
would adding a to the race it become dehydrated quickly balance out increasing its movespeed
Hmmm...
Having had a look in the bestiary those stat modifiers are a bit high although the lack of other abilities and terrible land speed could be seen as balancing them i suppose. So if you intend to remove or lessen the land speed problem i would probably say on land they suffer a -2 to dexterity instead of a +2 due to the fact they are poorly adapted for surface life or something.
would adding a to the race it become dehydrated quickly balance out increasing its movespeed
Or rather increasing its move speed
It's easy enough to call your player merfolk race a subrace and modify them accordingly in fact the more i think about it the more i think you'll have too as the stats for the creature do not match the modifiers for the race.
The creature stats (in my copy that is i have not checked the errata) also gives them +2 natural armor which in any low level game would cause balance issues.
Better i think to make your own version of the race and try to balance it with the basic races.
It's easy enough to call your player merfolk race a subrace and modify them accordingly in fact the more i think about it the more i think you'll have too as the stats for the creature do not match the modifiers for the race.
The creature stats (in my copy that is i have not checked the errata) also gives them +2 natural armor which in any low level game would cause balance issues.
Better i think to make your own version of the race and try to balance it with the basic races.
true, would increasing the move speed to 10ft and leaving the rest alone, make the race a viable land race?
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Merfolk on land are SUPPOSED to be weak. I would never allow a player to use one outside of MAYBE a fun gimme-one shot game. Additionally, since they have no legs to stand on they would essentially always be prone, and movement on dry land would literally just be flopping around like a ... fish on dry land.
So yeah... merfolk and land just don't mix.
Merfolk on land are SUPPOSED to be weak. I would never allow a player to use one outside of MAYBE a fun gimme-one shot game. Additionally, since they have no legs to stand on they would essentially always be prone, and movement on dry land would literally just be flopping around like a ... fish on dry land.
So yeah... merfolk and land just don't mix.
the entry in the beastiary list them as a amphibious, and changing the race to have serpentine land movement would solve the "how" for moving on land. Its true their suppose to be weak the problem is i don't want a character choosing the race to be a "problem", i would rather explore the different role playing experiences.
I'm thinking of this for stats the only thing changed is the movespeed
+2str
+2dex
+2con
+2natural armor
low-light vision
10ft movespeed
comments?
I'm thinking of this for stats the only thing changed is the movespeed
+2str
+2dex
+2con
+2natural armor
low-light vision
10ft movespeedcomments?
umm anyone?
What about just doing aquatic elves?
What about just doing aquatic elves?
its possible, i wanted to have them have a common fea ancestor, but have evolved differently. wanted to include them because of the definitive sea to land feel rather then land to sea. I wanted them very alien to the surface, managing existing but like explorers of a new world. i know its a rare choice of races to include.
What about just doing aquatic elves?
I think Shensen would object.
What...?
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Actually, I was just thinking about the problem? Couldn't the Merfolk's 5ft land speed be circumvented by tossing a few points into Ride and getting a combat trained mount and a special saddle?
What about just doing aquatic elves?I think Shensen would object.
What...?
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Actually, I was just thinking about the problem? Couldn't the Merfolk's 5ft land speed be circumvented by tossing a few points into Ride and getting a combat trained mount and a special saddle?
true, people are pretty creative about problems like this, i very well could leave the race alone
To be honest in many gaming groups the move speed would never be a problem as with stats like those most of the party would play them (i've been in a group like that once :().
The powergamers aside i would seriously suggest you should stick to the base races for stat modifiers perhaps let them have a +2 to one stat or +2,+2,-2. In fact you could just do them as humans with Amphibious in place of the bonus feat with a swim speed of 50 and land speed of 10
To be honest in many gaming groups the move speed would never be a problem as with stats like those most of the party would play them (i've been in a group like that once :().
The powergamers aside i would seriously suggest you should stick to the base races for stat modifiers perhaps let them have a +2 to one stat or +2,+2,-2. In fact you could just do them as humans with Amphibious in place of the bonus feat with a swim speed of 50 and land speed of 10
I could give them a -4 to str and a 10 ft movespeed, would that work?
I think a Merfolk campaign is a cool idea or just having one with the party, I've always wanted to play a sea elf ranger & have a stingray or shark as companion. I would say they may be weaker on land but they could still be tougher than a regular character with some speed penalty.House rule it as you see fit I always say. look at Namor he is tough on land or water.
I think a Merfolk campaign is a cool idea or just having one with the party, I've always wanted to play a sea elf ranger & have a stingray or shark as companion. I would say they may be weaker on land but they could still be tougher than a regular character with some speed penalty.House rule it as you see fit I always say. look at Namor he is tough on land or water.
I'm thinking the on land move increase from 5ft to 10ft is workable. Charecter would still feel odd on land, as a passing by halfling would move faster. i don't want to mod the race to much. so i think i sit with that.
Any other comments?
thanks everyone
I could give them a -4 to str and a 10 ft movespeed, would that work?
In the end you know your group best so it's your call but personally i'd probably go with
-2 Str
+2 Dex
+2 Cha
(described as beautiful and serpentine movement seems dexterous)
+2 Natural armor
(scales and toughness)
Speed 10
Swim 40
(snake like movement is not as fast in the water but better on land)
Amphibious
I could give them a -4 to str and a 10 ft movespeed, would that work?In the end you know your group best so it's your call but personally i'd probably go with
-2 Str
+2 Dex
+2 Cha
(described as beautiful and serpentine movement seems dexterous)
+2 Natural armor
(scales and toughness)
Speed 10
Swim 40
(snake like movement is not as fast in the water but better on land)
Amphibious
im liking these a good deal
Thanks for all the help everyone got alot of good ideas from this. Thank you
How bout Bog trog from priv. press Monsternomicon as playable race there amphibian. They look cool an its 3.5 compatable, there a good merfolk type. I do like the idea of them being just a hairy feet, I mean hair faster than a halfling seems fair.
I'm feeling like we are in need of a 'Half-Aquan' template that is similar in nature to the 'Half-Fiend' or Lycanthrope templates. The template could be applied to an creature to make them partially aquan, which could mean fish-like people or something more subtle like "the Mariner" (Kevin Costner) from Water World.
In fact, 'Water World' might not be such a bad concept for your setting. In that case the merfolk character wouldn't need to be on land very often and the other player characters would be motivated to be more aquatic.
Just some thoughts, good luck!
I'm feeling like we are in need of a 'Half-Aquan' template that is similar in nature to the 'Half-Fiend' or Lycanthrope templates. The template could be applied to an creature to make them partially aquan, which could mean fish-like people or something more subtle like "the Mariner" (Kevin Costner) from Water World.
In fact, 'Water World' might not be such a bad concept for your setting. In that case the merfolk character wouldn't need to be on land very often and the other player characters would be motivated to be more aquatic.
Just some thoughts, good luck!
Half aquan, is a good idea, water world isnt half bad either. I run an eberron campaign with our crew as merc/pirates for hire on a ship that would even work. Others have mentioned mounts some D&D creatures can fly and go in swim maybe an idea or just give the mount both capabilities, use the imagination, ask the party if rules seem fair
Some good mounts for travel on land and water maybe salt water crocodile, there a flying manta(that can swim), some sort of crab or lobster abomination. these creatures could help with keeping up with the party check the monster manuals, you could even add a template
I like the race building guide it looks good however his version of merfolk also missed out the +2 natural armor in the statblock for the creature which would make the race 18 points if i read the system right.
If i understand the point system correctly my verion of merfolk works out as 10 points not bad for something i threw together :)
-2 Str (-4 points) total -4
+2 Dex (+4 points) total +0
+2 Cha (+4 points) total +4
(described as beautiful and serpentine movement seems dexterous)
+2 Natural armor (+8 points) total +12
(scales and toughness)
Speed 10 (-8 points) total +4
Swim 40 (+4 points) total +8
(snake like movement is not as fast in the water but better on land)
Amphibious (+2 points) total +10
and i missed
Low Light (+1 point) Total +11
Dislikes land (-1 point) Total +10