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Back in the day, and definatly now in 4E, you needed to have certain classes to fill certain roles. You needed a rogue to open traps, a cleric to heal, and a fighter to tank.
Many of the new classes, and some of the rule changes seem to allow classes to fill more than one roll.
With that being said, two questions, both "in your opinion"
1. What is the most versatile class?
2. What party made up of only 4 players of the same class would be most successful, starting from Level 1 up.
My picks.
1. Inquisitor. I thought about bard for a long time, but I went this way because I think they can be a bit more independent.
2. Bard. Can do pretty much everything you need with all of the variants, and they would buff each other ridiculously. Most other casters would get smashed at low level without help, and most other melee would get crushed at high level without support.
Most versitile? I'd have to give that one to Wizard. Spells can mimic many skills to some extent, buff onself up to being suitable for melee or ranged combat, and so on. Being able to learn as many spells as they are willing to contribute wealth towards as well as being able to change their subset with a bit of rest can mean a wizard can play very differently from day to day and in situation to situation.
As to the second question, it would be a tough call. My first thought was Rogue, what with their massive amounts of skill points being able to cover a lot of ground with 4 people, and being well suited to combat and social situations. 4 Rogues would make anyone who's in a position to be flanked tremble. And UMD would ensure spellcasting for what they couldn't cover. And some of the varients from the APG are excellent when there are multiple Rogues such as a cut purse and a thug covering a lot of turf between them, along with the teamwork feats. Although if the game contained high amounts of kick in the door dungeon crawling I'd give the edge to Clerics. With a bit of preparation they are every bit as effective as other melee classes in close combat, albeit lacking some combat manuever options, and the amount of healing between them could keep them going for some time without rest. Various domain abilities, particularly the domains that grant a handful of arcane spells, ensure versitility and diversity.
The most versatile class? I would rate bards and rangers as the most versatile classes as they both have spells, skills and combat ability. However, as you can do anything with magic, you can argue that any full caster has as much if not more versatility.
A party does not need to have all the slots filled, but it does need some roles filled:
Healer - having someone who can heal in the party is essential, even if it is a bard with cure light wounds and Use Magic Device.
Combat Ability - you need some combat ability in a party, which can mean one dedicated full BAB class or a couple of 3/4 BAB's not afraid to get their hands dirty.
Utility Casting - you need magic, and you need the buffs, protections, battlefield control and solving problem kind of magic.
Skills - someone in the party has to have skills. Ideally, you want a Face, a Sage and a Trapspringer. A Face has the social skills to deal with NPCs well, a Sage has the knowledge skills and a Trapspringer does what it says on the tin.
Damage Dealer - you want someone who can dish out solid damage on a regular basis. Whether it's a rogue putting a shiv in the back or a sorcerer blasting away or a fighter going all out with Power Attack does not matter, you need to hit hard sometimes.
Tank - somebody has to be able to take the hits, as well, whether by super AC or super toughness, they are the guy the enemy has to take a few rounds hammering while the rest of the party get their act together.
Of course one character can fulfil several roles. A paladin could be a healer, damage dealer and tank all rolled into one, for example. As long as you have the roles covered any party can be effective. One party I have been in consisted of a rogue (Trapspringer, Sage, some combat), a cleric (tank, healer, utility caster, some combat) and a wilder (damage dealer, Face, some combat).
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I'd have to go with Bard.
Spells are no replacement for skills. The Bard has a substantial amount of both.
Druid might be the second most versatile. Their shape changing ability is very flexible, even if individual forms are quite weak.
Good call on the druid. Summon bear is an ongoing joke in our group as a result of a druid basically saving us from a TPK by, well...yeah.
And one role can be split across multiple characters.Of course one character can fulfil several roles. A paladin could be a healer, damage dealer and tank all rolled into one, for example. As long as you have the roles covered any party can be effective. One party I have been in consisted of a rogue (Trapspringer, Sage, some combat), a cleric (tank, healer, utility caster, some combat) and a wilder (damage dealer, Face, some combat).
Indeed.
If you wanted one class only for a party, druid would cover it: Skills, Spells and special abilities, decent combat ability and healing.
I wanted to have an all bard party based on a traveling carnival sideshow.
There would be the strongman bard, the hypnotist bard, the acrobat bard, and maybe the bearded lady bard or something. I just think it would be a really cool way to set up an adventuring party.
Ravenloft's Carnival is a fantastic example ...
It is pretty awesome the correlations between heavy or death metal and fantasy settings. It would be fun to have a group based on metalocalypse or Kiss like they did in the movie Role Models.
My group has been talking about a group of bards for about 5 years now, but we haven't given it a try yet. Mostly due to threats from our DM that he will TPK a group of bards. I think he just wishes he could be in the band.
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It is pretty awesome the correlations between heavy or death metal and fantasy settings. It would be fun to have a group based on metalocalypse or Kiss like they did in the movie Role Models.
My group has been talking about a group of bards for about 5 years now, but we haven't given it a try yet. Mostly due to threats from our DM that he will TPK a group of bards. I think he just wishes he could be in the band.
Bard Sabbath
Spinal Bard (They go to 11)
The Bardles!
The opportunities for puns are endless. This should happen.
Most versitile? I'd have to give that one to Wizard. Spells can mimic many skills to some extent, buff onself up to being suitable for melee or ranged combat, and so on. Being able to learn as many spells as they are willing to contribute wealth towards as well as being able to change their subset with a bit of rest can mean a wizard can play very differently from day to day and in situation to situation.
As to the second question, it would be a tough call. My first thought was Rogue, what with their massive amounts of skill points being able to cover a lot of ground with 4 people, and being well suited to combat and social situations. 4 Rogues would make anyone who's in a position to be flanked tremble. And UMD would ensure spellcasting for what they couldn't cover. And some of the varients from the APG are excellent when there are multiple Rogues such as a cut purse and a thug covering a lot of turf between them, along with the teamwork feats. Although if the game contained high amounts of kick in the door dungeon crawling I'd give the edge to Clerics. With a bit of preparation they are every bit as effective as other melee classes in close combat, albeit lacking some combat manuever options, and the amount of healing between them could keep them going for some time without rest. Various domain abilities, particularly the domains that grant a handful of arcane spells, ensure versitility and diversity.
I'd give it to the wizard too only if you are starting at higher level.
Back in the day, and definatly now in 4E, you needed to have certain classes to fill certain roles. You needed a rogue to open traps, a cleric to heal, and a fighter to tank.
Many of the new classes, and some of the rule changes seem to allow classes to fill more than one roll.
With that being said, two questions, both "in your opinion"
1. What is the most versatile class?
2. What party made up of only 4 players of the same class would be most successful, starting from Level 1 up.My picks.
1. Inquisitor. I thought about bard for a long time, but I went this way because I think they can be a bit more independent.
2. Bard. Can do pretty much everything you need with all of the variants, and they would buff each other ridiculously. Most other casters would get smashed at low level without help, and most other melee would get crushed at high level without support.
1. Wizard.
2. Cleric or Druid. I am leaning towards the druid.Edit:changed 1 to wizard due to a misunderstanding.
Now I want an all Bard party! I don't think my gaming group will go for it though... :(
I'd be game for it:
Most versatile?
1. Bard
2. Druid
3. Cleric
4. Wizard
5. Summoner
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2. What party made up of only 4 players of the same class would be most successful, starting from Level 1 up.
I knew some guys who ran an all cleric game. Each Cleric had different domains to cover different aspects of the game. They were actually pretty effective.
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2. What party made up of only 4 players of the same class would be most successful, starting from Level 1 up.
I knew some guys who ran an all cleric game. Each Cleric had different domains to cover different aspects of the game. They were actually pretty effective.
I had a group who, as a theme, decided to play a party of 4 of the same character classes. They chose cleric. To go a bit further, they all decided they would be primarily necromancer focused. Admittedly, they were amazingly effective. Like, super effective. They could heal, buff, find traps, disarm traps, tank, toss spells, and melee. At 1st-4th level they sported enough AC and healing that they could survive incredibly well, and when they hit 5th level they each sported a group of 20HD worth of undead (animated in a desecrate radius of course) which basically gave them some 80 HD worth of undead minions to function as meat-shields. They could then all pop channels to heal all their undead at once (and since some 3.5 material was available, they each took Tomb Tainted Soul, allowing them to heal with negative energy).
They were amazingly effective. Not exactly due to their class, but because of the way they each balanced everything out and worked in synergy with each other. Animate Dead + animals = great minions as well, without many of the hassles of summoning (but they could summon too).
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I think it's already fairly clear that Fighter is the least versatile class. I'd go with either Rogue, Ranger, Bard, or Wizard for most versatile depending on what level you're talking about.
1. What is the most versatile class?
Druid. You can heal, get a reasonable ac in critter form and fight control the battlefield, sneak, a high wisdom score gives you a better find traps than a rogue. The only downside is you can't disarm magic traps, but detect magic and dispel magic take care of that.
2. What party made up of only 4 players of the same class would be most successful, starting from Level 1 up.
druids
Tank: A druid with a lance on the back of his animal companion makes a better mounted fighter than the fighter (since his mount can survive being sneezed on)
Healer: druid heavy on healing spells. Turn into a small bird and ride unobtrusively on the tank
Rogue: Perception, disable device, good wis and you're good to go.
Blaster: Druids have a few save or die spells, and their battlefield control is pretty good.
Alchemist
Tank: Mutagen focused alchemist , natural armor +high dex mutagen= wicked ac.
Healer: Everyone! Someone can take the infusion ability and hand out cure light wounds infusions, or just pick up a wand of CLW
Rogue: They have disable device as a class skill. Someone needs to NOT inhale the mercury and keep a wisdom score and they're Good to go.
Blaster/controller: Everyone!
Once the party hits level 8 and gets fast bomb it would be unstoppable.
The party could even rotate the tank roll depending on who hasn't used their mutagen. Playing an alchemist was odd: 1 fight i was the tank, the next i was a walking nuke, then i was archery support, and then the healer/buffer.
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I think it's already fairly clear that Fighter is the least versatile class. I'd go with either Rogue, Ranger, Bard, or Wizard for most versatile depending on what level you're talking about.
I would go Barbarian.
I think it's already fairly clear that Fighter is the least versatile class. I'd go with either Rogue, Ranger, Bard, or Wizard for most versatile depending on what level you're talking about.
Honestly I would go with paladin, barbarian, or cavalier. Monks don't have much "build" versatility to them -- though they all tend to have a bit of versatility in what they can do as a class (monks do I mean but they generally don't look that different from one to the next).
Fighters have enough feats to master a few maneuvers, and a couple of combat styles meaning that in a fight they should always have a good option for how to handle someone.
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I think it's already fairly clear that Fighter is the least versatile class. I'd go with either Rogue, Ranger, Bard, or Wizard for most versatile depending on what level you're talking about.Honestly I would go with paladin, barbarian, or cavalier. Monks don't have much "build" versatility to them -- though they all tend to have a bit of versatility in what they can do as a class (monks do I mean but they generally don't look that different from one to the next).
Fighters have enough feats to master a few maneuvers, and a couple of combat styles meaning that in a fight they should always have a good option for how to handle someone.
Now that they have Channel energy, I actually think Paladins can fill the healer role fairly well, and of course tank. Depending on the order, Cavaliers can buff the rest of the party fairly well, in addition to front lining.
Fighters can do a lot of things, but don't really fill a lot of "roles" in the party. They come to hurt things, that is what they do.
Same with Barbarian's, only with less versatility as to how they are going to do it. A party of fighters could have completely different styles and rolls in combat. Barbarians aren't really going to "range" focus very often.
I agree monks are different. But I've found when I play monks they rarely "shine" but they also almost always can find a role in a given situation. I think there are actually quite a few monk builds. Depending on how you focus you can go for damage dealing, combat maneuvering, stealth...I wouldn't put them up with the rest, but I wouldn't put them far below rogues, considering how dependent rogues are on others for sneak attacks.
Now that Abundant step is a move action, after level 12 monks are about as mobile on the battlefield as you can get. I could see a party of four monks being fairly effective, even at high levels. They can tank, self heal, and while they don't have artillery, they can get to anything on the battlefield and stand up against casters when you consider stunning fist is a fort save.
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Once the party hits level 8 and gets fast bomb it would be unstoppable.
The party could even rotate the tank roll depending on who hasn't used their mutagen. Playing an alchemist was odd: 1 fight i was the tank, the next i was a walking nuke, then i was archery support, and then the healer/buffer.
Until they run out of bombs. Although fast bomb is one of the most nova features in the game, right up with a Cavalier lance charge.
An all alchemist party would have FAR to much opportunity for ridiculousness. Not only is everyone a blaster, but at level 16 you all get statue, and then the entire party can basically weeping angel their way through every encounter ever.
Statue Abuse:
Turn to flesh and use your delayed Greater invisibility
"Did that statue just disappear?"
Grapple and Pin
"OW! GAH! SOMEHTIN'S GOT ME!"
Turn to stone
"Oh... Well... Darn... Guess I'm stuck here"
i don't know which of the new classes work better at the new roles, but here are are a few.
Brawler; Primary Short Range Martial Sweeper
Swashbuckler; Primary Short Range Martial Sweeper
Bloodrager; Primary Martial Sweeper, limited supply of self buffs, potential secondary face
Slayer; Martial Sweeper, secondary Skill monkey
Hunter; Secondary Self Buffing Martial Sweeper, Secondary Healer, Secondary Skill Monkey, comes with a free Secondary Martial Sweeper
Investigator; Primary Skill Monkey, Self Buffing Secondary Martial Sweeper, Secondary Buffer
Shaman; Primary Divine Caster, Secondary Martial Sweeper
Arcanist; Primary Arcane Caster
Scald, Secondary Skill Monkey, Secondary Arcane Caster, Secondary Self Buffing Martial Sweeper, Secondary buffer
Warpriest; Secondary Divine Caster, Secondary Self Buffing Martial Sweeper
Party of 4 all same class best chance of survival? I'm biased of course but I'd vote summoner hands down.
Low levels eidolon is making fighters feel sad, high levels the quick escape capabilities and situational buffs are pretty good.
And enough variety to keep me interested for 20 levels
Of the new classes its hard to say but I want to *feel* like a band of warpriests is what I'd least like to run into in a dark alley.